Let's talk about Mormonism

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Definition of bigotry that I am using: extreme intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.
 
Some of the Ladies at bible study have incouraged me to also talk to the priest. If I feel God moving me in that direction I will certainly go, but as of this moment I don’t feel compelled to do anything more than I am currently doing. I am learning what I really want through reading the catechism and that way I also get to read the beliefs word for word and not through another’s interpretation of what the words mean but instead what God wants me to understand about Him through those words.
 
Just as the Catholic Church now frowns on some of their earlier
institutions like indulgences or the crusades etc. some people today
still shun Catholics for these things even though no one I have met in
the Catholic Church believes today that those institutions were right.
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Not at all the same! Indulgences are still practiced - very much encouraged, as the Church has the power of binding and loosing. The selling of indulgences 500 years ago, though sinful, did not render them wrong, inappropriate or ineffective. Consider: If one commits the sin of selling the Eucharist it is still the Eucharist.

The Crusades? Look into them! Islam had over-run the holy land with all the bloodshed that this implies. The Crusades began as a holy war to recover the Holy Land. That they degenerated into excess has nothing to do with Church teaching, but rather excesses of behavior.

The problem with LDS is that their teaching is constantly changing, if you place them on a time line. Same with the JWs. Catholic teaching has never changed - it cannot change. The Church’s understanding of doctrine improves and this adds to teaching, but in no way alters or contradicts prior teaching. You can take that to the bank.
 
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I also get to read the beliefs word for word and not through another’s interpretation of what the words mean but instead what God wants me to understand about Him through those words.
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Mormonism is demonstrably false, God gives us a brain to question things, especially those things that deal with religion. There is absolutely no way anyone can apply logic and reason and come to a conclusion that Mormonism is true. Joe Smith’s claims are as foolish as scientology. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

I understand the social pressure to stay Mormon, and I suppose if you are brought up Mormon, it may be difficult to see things as they are. But if you are sincerely looking for the truth, there is absolutely no way you can ever hold that Mormonism is true. It’s horribly dumb to believe in the historicity of the BOM.

In this country, you have the freedom to believe in any religious belief you can dream up, but none of us are free when it comes to the facts. Some things are true, some are not.
 
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Catholic-Mormon said:
It is a door that is currently shut. I am making no demands that it open. If God wants me to walk through that door he will make it so. If not I am content attending my women’s bible study at the local Catholic Church and worshiping and praising the things the Catholic Church teaches that I can’t at the Mormon church and just be happy that God is providing for my needs. I can attend mass and worship as a non-catholic. I can study the catechism outside of RCIA. I can take communion anywhere and view it through the perspective of the Eucharist so no privledges are being denied me by God. So it is all good because God is good and God rules.
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Ah, but the door has cracked open, and the Holy Spirit is calling.

Nothing wrong with taking it slow.

You still have this Mormon thing going, where you think God is calling you to fire up your own church. I’m acquainted with another former LDS who believes the same about himself, though he’s taken his to a point further than you and believes himself to be his own private prophet.

Mormonism confuses different people, in different ways. Not to say Mormons have the corner on confusion. Catholics can become confused as well. It’s the way the world is.
 
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To say the Catholic Church has not changed over time is sooo disingenuous. The way the Catholic Church interprets things continuously changes. The practices over time have changed. The rituals over time have changed. The Catholic Church gobbled up all kinds of religious practices from other faith traditions and christionised all sorts of previous pagon rituals. To believe otherwise shows you know nothing about Catholic history. Yet at the same time you claim to have a perfect understanding of Mormonism and what constitutes being one.
 
Catholics believe in personal revelation just like mormons do. Mormons are just more actively seeking it out for themselves and relying less on religious figures as the source of all truth. Read Exodus 19-20. God wants all his people to be priests. God wants to talk and everyone listen. But Israel replies no Moses you go talk to God and then just tell us what He says we are too scared. What God wanted then is what God wants now. That is why the veil in the temple was torn when Christ died. God no longer wanted to be separated from his people. He didn’t want the religious leaders at the time to come between Him and his people any longer. God came as a man and died to try and help all of us see him as less scary and show that he was willing to go though all of human suffering just so we would know that He knows all the solutions to mans suffering if we would just come to him. After reading that tell me why I am wrong and show me the correct catholic interpretation of these events.

Throughout the New Testament including after the death of Christ it mentions several God called and sent prophets to help the early church. There does not seem to be any ordination process or special learning required to be a prophet. Simply being called and lead by God. Are we completely sure God stopped this practice? If so I would like to know the evidence. I really mean this. I know we are warned about following false prophets but I don’t remember reading that God rebuked true prophets or declared He would stop sending prophets. If He did say this I really would like to know that because that would be important for me to know and share with my Mormon friends and family.
 
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The source of truth for Catholics is a Person, Jesus Christ. We accept that He established a Church. He hand selected men to oversee it. Do you reject this?

Catholics seek personal divine guidance, no less than Mormons. We test the spirits, so as to not be led from Truth. We discern. Discernment includes testing ones conclusions against Truth, that is Jesus Christ. His teachings handed on once, for all, first to the Apostles who, then handed it on, and so forth, until today.

St. Paul warns the new Christian congregations to beware of people who teach falsely. We are ever cautious, about being led astray. We test our thoughts and ideas about what we believe God is telling us, against Church teaching. When/if we don’t, then we are making ourselves the source of truth, in effect, making our own church.

Yes, we, seek divine guidance, but humble ourselves before God. WE are not our own sources of truth.

Indeed, by our baptism we share in the Priesthood, Prophethood and Kingship of Jesus Christ. We are the building stones of the temple. One Body, with Christ as our head. We seek salvation individually, and are saved as A PEOPLE.

God has ALWAYS called people to him. We call this Salvation History. Short condensed…God first saved two people, Adam and Eve. Then a family, Noah, then a tribe, Abraham, then a kingdom, David. Then in Jesus Christ, the fullness of God’s salvic plan is revealed. Salvation is for ALL.

The OT temple prefigured Jesus Christ, he fulfilled their purpose, in every way. The tearing of the temple veil is a sign of this fulfillment, in Jesus Christ.

It was God who established the temple practices, priesthood, laws and governance of Israel.

Jesus did speak clearly against the Pharisees, who had turned the Law into a burden. That did not mean that the Jews were free from the Law or that Jesus freed people from the Law.

Jesus fulfilled the Law, he didn’t abrogate it. He is the New Covenant. He selected men to teach the Truth of God’s full and perfect revelation: Himself. The Good News, of Christ risen, our Salvation.

We believe that Christ has a mystical union with the Church, that is called His Bride. The Church is in the image of Jesus Christ. It is fully human and fully divine. The human aspect of it, us, is not perfect. We are called, all of us, to seek holiness, as Christ’s physical body is holy, so we should be conformed to Him.

The fear of God is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

You make a distinction where I do not, between Jesus Christ, and what is His. The Church is His, when I chose to be baptized a Roman Catholic it was a decision to follow Jesus Christ. To belong to Him as the Church does. “Church”, not being just a building or a group of likeminded people, but the Body of Christ.

You are not fully wrong. Catholics believe and accept that there is an authoritative interpreter of scripture. That doesn’t mean we don’t listen to the Word of God, for what God wants to convey to us. We should, and do.
 
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Catholic-Mormon said:
Throughout the New Testament including after the death of Christ it mentions several God called and sent prophets to help the early church.
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Where in the Bible are men called as prophets, after Jesus. No where.

Hebrews 1:1-2 is clear, that God now speaks to us through his Son, Jesus Christ.

The gift of prophecy now, is given to those whose calling is to bring people to Christ. The Word of God, made flesh, is who we listen to and follow.
 
I don’t know that I disagree with any of what you said.
Mark 9:38-39 Jesus casts a larger net over who members of his church were. I know that Christ’s Church was founded on Peter. I know the Catholic Church is the fulfillment of that action. I believe the Catholic Church did everything it felt it needed to do to preserve the correct teachings, genealogy and history of Jesus and the world. I do not however, see yet all of those who are for God the father,son,and Holy Spirit members of record in the Catholic Church. I believe the body of Christ, the church, currently stretches beyond the boundaries of the Catholic Church. I have met may people very much for the trinitarian God found in all of the churches claiming to be Christian including JW and mormons. The body of Christ is scattered because the Catholic Church refused to accept any other perspectives of God that did not fit with whatever the current leadership’s views were at the time. These individuals who experienced God somewhat differently were either silenced, excommunicated, or killed. What were those individuals to do with the perspective of God that He had given to them. They established other places to worship together with individuals who had experienced God the same way as them. I came to the Catholic Church because God had given me a perspective of Him that fit the Catholic view and I longed to celebrate that knowledge with like believers. I could not share my perspective of God in my own church at that time. I do not and have not yet read anything in the catechism that I disagree with yet, of course I have not finished it yet. I love your witness of the Catholic Church. I think it is beautiful. I love talking to the ladies at the Catholic bible study. I am grateful God did not take that opportunity away from me. I am grateful that I did not make the mistake of walking away from all things catholic. I know God is guiding my path and that path for me gets brighter and clearer each day. I love my religious life the way it is right now. As God chooses to bless me with more I will happily take that too. I have no doubt what so ever that I am on the path He wants me to tread for I am continually feeling more and more of His presence in my life. I have no complaints. He has made me freer, lighter and more joyful than I have ever been in my life.
 
Acts 21:10, Acts 10:13, Acts11:27, Acts 13:1, 1 Cor 14:37, Titus 1:12. I will stop with those, but if you would like more let me know. You maybe thinking of a prophet different than I do as well. I don’t believe a prophet’s job is to set up a new church or become its leader. Instead it is his only job to deliver the message God asked to deliver. God sometimes uses prophets to deliver messages to people who are not clearly listening to God on a certain matter. However Jesus the Christ should always be a true Christians prophet, priest and king. They should never place themselves as equals to, in place of, and certainly not above Him.

One more scripture Revelation 19:10
“… For the testimony of Jesus is a spirit of prophecy”

So should those who have this kind of testimony rightly be able to call themselves a prophet?
 
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Catholic-Mormon said:
Acts 21:10, Acts 10:13, Acts11:27, Acts 13:1, 1 Cor 14:37, Titus 1:12. I will stop with those, but if you would like more let me know. You maybe thinking of a prophet different than I do as well. I don’t believe a prophet’s job is to set up a new church or become its leader. Instead it is his only job to deliver the message God asked to deliver. God sometimes uses prophets to deliver messages to people who are not clearly listening to God on a certain matter. However Jesus the Christ should always be a true Christians prophet, priest and king. They should never place themselves as equals to, in place of, and certainly not above Him.
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I was thinking you were asking for Mormons and therefore were taking the Mormon view.

Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit. That is what the Church teaches. It doesn’t ever proclaim someone an official prophet of the Church, but it does officially recognize some prophets and prophecies. Fatima is an example.

Gifts of the Spirit are for the person to whom they’ve been given. Charismas, tied to specific offices, such as Bishop or Pope, are for the purposes of strengthening that person in leading the Church.

Prophecy is not one of the charismas that is tied to a specific office. It is wise to seek a spiritual director, if/when contemplating personal mystical events.
 
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RebeccaJ said:
I was thinking you were asking for Mormons and therefore were taking the Mormon view.
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Don’t be so certain that someone from the Mormon church believes what you think they believe. I learned once I started learning from Catholics that the things I thought they believed was far from what they really believe.

Your friend in many ways sounds like he too might be referring to himself as s prophet like I discribed rather than a view of what people think mormons think about a prophet.
 
I am not saying that rituals and understanding have not changed! You almost completely misunderstand. What I object to is the relativism that seeks to make all changes in the various religions the same. They are not! The Catholic Church has not suffered doctrinal change. Implementation and application of those doctrines has - and must - change, due to vast differences in culture and societies over 2,000 years. Other religions have almost universally suffered basic doctrinal changes.

Man’s understanding of doctrine develops. Read the Church fathers. Christ left us with a nascent faith, not a fully understood, fully developed faith. The Holy Spirit was granted to lead the Church into fuller understanding. Did Christ put a time frame on that? No!

The LDS and JWs, for but two examples, have altered doctrine extensively. Example: Africans and other dark-skinned people are no longer thought to be under God’s curse, as the LDS firmly believed in its earlier days. Wasn’t this a nonsensical belief to begin with? And the JWs suffer from a litany of failed prophecies.

Show a Catholic doctrine that has been overturned. If you do, it can be shown that you did not have full understanding of it.
 
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The beliefs about blacks was a policy that got changed. The doctrine was never a universal belief in the church that was accepted and selected as cannon. If you believe the mention of skin color in the Book of Mormon I can also point out the use of poligamy in the Old Testament. Certainly things that people believed and did, but not doctrine. Many of my ancestors suffered at the hands of some mormons because of their kindness to outsiders. Although what they did to my ancestors was evil and wrong also not doctrine.

Once again if you are using the book Mormon doctrine that was written by a man and never accepted as church doctrine.

It is also taught in the lds church that doctrines do not change where policies, procedures and organization may change over time.
 
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Does not make it a revealed religion. Quite the opposite is eminently true: It completely overturns long established truths as revealed by God. It purports to be a “revelation” by some spirit. Which spirit? There is zero evidence that any LDS member, founder or successors, has ever followed Saint John’s advice and method for testing the spirits. From this negligence, from this lack, have come many of the world’s religions.

It appeals to the ego, which, by definition, indicates that it is not from God. Each man can be a god, but not women? Seriously? Read Genesis 3. What was the first sin? “You will be like gods, knowing good and evil.” This is the promise of Mormonism!

Doesn’t mean that Mormons ar not good, moral people. It just means that they follow a worldly spirit - and thus, their eternal souls are in danger.
 
Thanks for your opinion it’s is not mine nor many of the LDS people I know. This includes my local bishop and stake president who have received all my complaints about the history of the church and have no problem with how I view things and in most cases share similar views.

I am grateful for your concern about our collective eternal souls, we all should be so loving and concerned for each other’s eternal we being.
 
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I wonder how Mormons believe in this new “revelation” when the Epistle of Jude (1:3) clearly states that the faith was “Once for all delivered to the Saints”? Doctrine develops with man’s understanding of it. But, wholesale changes that appear suddenly - especially in the religious free-for-all that is the USA - must be viewed with suspicion, for as Saint Paul says, “to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs.”
 
Today there is becoming less and less difference between the LDS faith and many other protestant faiths because simply put they have questioned what was suggested and taught in the past and have rejected them.
 
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