Liberal Catholics pushing changes in the church to gather in Detroit

[1holycatholic]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=569358

There is already a thread going. But, I do have to chuckle at the “wide range of Catholics…” statement. The author of that article obviously has not seen the statistics on the attendees.

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/06/hello-detroit/

That was the pre-game thread with speculation, this is the post-game thread with analysis.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

I don’t think any Catholic to include the Holy Father actually wants to see a smaller Church. However, there are only a few options on the table here: 1) is that people agree with the teachings of the Church revealed to her via sacred scripture and sacred tradition, renounce their efforts to change her, and seek absolution for their sins; 2) is that people who do not, leave and go somewhere that reflects their beliefs about what the Church should be; and 3) is that the Church changes her teachings to accommodate their beliefs.

Option 1 is obviously the best one and the one which allows the Holy Mother Church to retain members and still be Christ’s visible church on earth. Option 2 is the second best option but has obvious faults as we lose souls, but the Church still remains the Church. Option 3 is a disaster where the Church that Jesus Christ founded no longer exists and the gates of hell would have prevailed against it.

Option three is obviously not an possible based on the words of our Blessed Lord himself. That leaves options 1 and 2 as the only viable choices. In both of those two scenarios the decision is in the hands of the dissenters. If they wish to return to the bosom of the Church, I have no doubts that she will welcome them with open arms and thank God for their return. If they do not, she will weep for their loss and pray for God to show them the way home. In neither case is it up to the Church. I pray frequently for unity in Christianity and I am sure that many other members of CAF do as well. However, people are free to reject both our desires as well as God’s will.

When Pope Benedict suggested that he thought we would have a smaller Church, in no way was he talking about what he desired to happen. He was talking about what he predicted would happen. There is a huge difference. By the same token, people on this forum, who you are disagreeing with, are merely saying that they prefer a smaller Church to a Church that no longer exists. Between those two choices, there is only one reasonable decision a faithful Christian can make.

Peace of Christ,

Jason

Then why would the Archbishop warn Priests that if they participated they risk the possibility of being laicised.He recognizes the cancer that this organization is.These are heterodox,disobedient Catholics who wish to take over the Church.I would suggest a few excommunications are in order to lovingly discipline the worst heretical offenders and bring them back to their senses.The females who are pretending to be priests who are there have been excommunicated and in one case it resulted in a woman publicly rejecting the “womenpriest” nonsense and returning to the Church.

 

[jwinch2]

Then why would the Archbishop warn Priests that if they participated they risk the possibility of being laicised.He recognizes the cancer that this organization is.These are heterodox,disobedient Catholics who wish to take over the Church.I would suggest a few excommunications are in order to lovingly discipline the worst heretical offenders and bring them back to their senses.The females who are pretending to be priests who are there have been excommunicated and in one case it resulted in a woman publicly rejecting the “womenpriest” nonsense and returning to the Church.

I’m not sure what you are suggesting I disagree with there. If people deserve to be excommunicated and the Bishops or Holy Father thinks that is the appropriate response, I would trust their judgement on the matter. My response was aimed at the discussion of us as Catholics “wanting” to force people out or to have a smaller church. My position is that while having a smaller church is hardly desirable. It is infinitely more so than accommodating the demands of these people.

 

[jwinch2]

That was the pre-game thread with speculation, this is the post-game thread with analysis.

There was some in-game going on in the other one as well! I didn’t know if the Mods would prefer one thread on the subject rather than multiple. But, I guess they can merge them if they see fit.

Cheers!

 

[manygift1spirit]

The Church is a hospital for sinners of whom I AM THE BIGGEST PATIENT.

BUT I WANT TO GET WELL AND COOPERATE WITH MY TREATMENT… PART OF WHICH IS THE PRESCRIPTIONS FOR CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, REPARATION AND OBEDIENCE.

These patients want to reject their regimen of treatment, and become the doctors.

(reordering and editing mine- mg1s)

I have never heard this analogy before, yet it is one of the best I have ever heard. This sums up the Plague of Pride that has infested the Chursh in the last half century or so,

Totally brilliant

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

I’m not sure what you are suggesting I disagree with there. If people deserve to be excommunicated and the Bishops or Holy Father thinks that is the appropriate response, I would trust their judgement on the matter. My response was aimed at the discussion of us as Catholics “wanting” to force people out or to have a smaller church. My position is that while having a smaller church is hardly desirable. It is infinitely more so than accommodating the demands of these people.

I really don’t want to force anyone out,but I am sick of their subversion.They should leave and start their own Church but they want ours.

"My position is that while having a smaller church is hardly desirable. It is infinitely more so than accommodating the demands of these people."I agree with this statement in it’s entirety.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Shocked. That’s all I can say. Shocked.

 

[jwinch2]

They should leave and start their own Church but they want ours.

This is going to sound very judgmental but I know of no way to soften this statement without it becoming untrue.

Unfortunately, that is how people like this work on many fronts. I see it outside the Church in the secular world as well when it comes to organizations, clubs, politics, etc. Take politics for example. How many on the far left of the political spectrum are in love with European socialist democracy? They could simply move to such a country, but they are not content to do that. They would rather stay here, be miserable, and fight to force others to live in the manner that they feel is appropriate. Now, bring that back to the Holy Mother Church. People such as this are not content to do their own thing, they wish to remake that which they do not agree with in an attempt to force others to their point of view. I use the word force intentionally as there is no concept of free will in them.

God Bless you!

 

[Tigg]

“So be it” doesn’t work for me if they have been made to feel unwelcome and therefore might be led further away, thus potentially becoming void of any desire to ever return as a result.

Reposting previous comment, which apparently went unread.

**But the Church has not turned her back to them; rather exhorted and pleaded for them to return to safety - they refuse! **

I contend it is their own perversity that has made them feel unwelcome.

 

[Santi2]

Here’s Joan Chittister’s intro to her prayer for Pentecost as published here

huffingtonpost.com/sister-joan-chittister-osb/pentecost-prayer_b_872130.html

“The Holy Spirit embodies the life force of the universe, the power of God, the animating energy present in all things and captured by none. On this great feast of Pentecost, the coming of the Spirit of God, I invite you to pray with me”

“The Church is Catholic from Her first moment, Her universality is not the fruit of the successive inclusion of various communities. From the first instant, in fact, the Holy Spirit created Her as the Church of all peoples; She embraces the entire world, She transcends all limits of race, class, nation; She breaks down every obstacle and brings all men together in the profession of the One and Triune God. From the beginning, the Church is One, Catholic, and Apostolic: this is Her true nature and as such it must be recognized. She is Holy, not thanks to the ability of Her members, but because God Himself, with His Spirit, creates, purifies, and sanctifies her always.”*

Benedict XVI
Homily (Pentecost)
12 June 2011

 

[SunnaB16]

With the ever increasing age of these poor deluded souls, their next sausage sizzle will have to be held at a nursing home…or a cemetery.

jwinch2:
How true!
They like to wallow in self-pity; and they`re determined to inflict it on everyone else.

While typing the above line, it hit me that a certain spiritual entity is doing the same thing…not pleasant to think about.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

With the ever increasing age of these poor deluded souls, their next sausage sizzle will have to be held at a nursing home…or a cemetery.

jwinch2:
How true!
They like to wallow in self-pity; and they`re determined to inflict it on everyone else.

While typing the above line, it hit me that a certain spiritual entity is doing the same thing…not pleasant to think about.

Yikes.It just hit me too.Pray for them.Do you ever get tired of praying for idiots?It becomes a chore and is wearisome.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Do you ever get tired of praying for idiots?It becomes a chore and is wearisome.

Imagine how stupid we are compared to God almighty. Imagine how weak we are compared to Jesus Christ. Imagine how unloving we are compared to Christ on the cross.

Now imagine Jesus said to His Father “Do you ever get tired of forgiving sins of idiots/sinners/cowards?”

While it’s true that these people are on the wrong track and for the most part heretical I don’t think it should fill you with spiritual pride. Rather, it should make you more humble, and make you ask yourself “What can I do to stop this?” and remind you surely that you are indeed not praying enough.

Let the monotony of my hail mary’s help bring these souls back to the Church and back to Jesus Christ.

 

[sedonaman]

Nothing will happen to them.

 

[ringil]

I don’t see why folks here are getting so annoyed or worried about these folks putting togather this Conference.

Clearly, these folks are attempting to make changes in the Church, however, their efforts are inept and their desired changes have absolutely zero chance of coming to fruition, indeed thanks to Benedict, the liturgy is gaining more of a sense of reverence that was unfortunately lost over the last few decades.

Most of those responsible for the liturgical and authoritative liberalisation of the Church are 55 year-old or over. This is no vibrant group of people with new and exciting ideas. And despite their hopes, this is not the direction the Church is taking.

I think that all of the attention is akin to feeding a troll. Just ignor it and it will go away or die. The Bishops aren’t being influenced by such a fringe group.

Also, lets stop comparing these heterodox individuals with political liberals. There are many orthodox Catholics that lean to the left on issues while remaining completely faithful to doctrine.

I am politically liberal, Pro-life, love the EF, and have to calm my nerves if the only mass I get to is the Sunday afternoon Life Teen Mass. UUgghh. . . .

 

[sedonaman]

… I only found out this year that it was started in response to a “Call To Action” conference held in Detroit in about 1996.
Does anyone know if these dissenters have held a conference every year? ( They go by many names…Call to Action was changed to American Catholic Conference)

Here is a list of members and speakers at the 2004 CTA conference.
ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/disspeop.htm#Speakers%20at%20the%202004%20Call%20to%20Action%20Con

You might try googling “call to action” along with “catholic” and “200X” where X=last digit of various years. You might also try the same with “American Catholic Conference”

 

[Dale_M]

Clearly, these folks are attempting to make changes in the Church, however, their efforts are inept and their desired changes have absolutely zero chance of coming to fruition, indeed thanks to Benedict, the liturgy is gaining more of a sense of reverence that was unfortunately lost over the last few decades

I’m not sure that reverence for the liturgy of the Mass was lost during the past few decades, although certainly there have been sporadic liturgical abuse. And I would give credit to Pope John Paul II for helping thwart the goals of groups such as the ACC. Those seeking reform often considered him to be too conservative, and were outspoken about it.

But I do agree that ACC and CTA will be frustrated in their goals, as has happened for the past few decades. They are carrying banners from the 1960s and 1970s and have attracted few new followers since that era.

 

[ringil]

I’m not sure that reverence for the liturgy of the Mass was lost during the past few decades, although certainly there have been sporadic liturgical abuse. And I would give credit to Pope John Paul II for helping thwart the goals of groups such as the ACC. Those seeking reform often considered him to be too conservative, and were outspoken about it.

But I do agree that ACC and CTA will be frustrated in their goals, as has happened for the past few decades. They are carrying banners from the 1960s and 1970s and have attracted few new followers since that era.

Oh, I didn’t mean to exclude PJII, I was just focussing on the here-and-now.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Imagine how stupid we are compared to God almighty. Imagine how weak we are compared to Jesus Christ. Imagine how unloving we are compared to Christ on the cross.

Now imagine Jesus said to His Father “Do you ever get tired of forgiving sins of idiots/sinners/cowards?”

While it’s true that these people are on the wrong track and for the most part heretical I don’t think it should fill you with spiritual pride. Rather, it should make you more humble, and make you ask yourself “What can I do to stop this?” and remind you surely that you are indeed not praying enough.

Let the monotony of my hail mary’s help bring these souls back to the Church and back to Jesus Christ.

’ I don’t think it should fill you with spiritual pride’-How judgemental of you and slightly “holier than thou”.Physician heal thyself.

I never said I stopped praying for them.I am a vessel made of clay and I do become weary in praying for them,but I persevere.I am not filled with spiritual pride-I am no Pharisee-I invite you to read a post i made in this thread earlier:

"Originally Posted by Pax et Bonum
The Church is a hospital for sinners of whom I AM THE BIGGEST PATIENT.

BUT I WANT TO GET WELL AND COOPERATE WITH MY TREATMENT… PART OF WHICH IS THE PRESCRIPTIONS FOR CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, REPARATION AND OBEDIENCE.

These patients want to reject their regimen of treatment, and become the doctors."

In my opinion(which I am entitled to by the way)by their actions they have revealed themselves to be disobedient,unsubmissive,heterodox idiot(substitute PRIDEFUL if the word offends you) Catholics who reject the teaching authority of the Church and cause scandal and dissension which the lamestream media eats up like ice cream.

 

[PPT]

This is the work of heterodox NOT “liberal” Catholics who are trying to create a church in their own image.There are only two kinds of Catholics-orthodox and heterodox-there are no conservative nor liberal Catholics.If they are not willing to submit to the teachings of the Church they should leave-they are protestants already.
This and heretical rebellious clergy constitute the"smoke of Satan",which the late Holy Father Pope Paul VI said had entered the Church.

I agree. I was informed as much by a Religious Superior. It’s about time a Catholic calls a spade a spade, which of course will begin to require all who challenge the liberal agenda to stand up and be counted! And by that I mean defend the Faith, as it is handed down through Apostolic succession (the Magisterium.)