Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

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Motherwit . . .
Are your articles from univerally accepted medical/scientific sources?
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If you are talking about highly respected medical journals like The Lancet, and The New England Journal of Medicine who both had fraudulent articles against hydroxychloroquine usage that had to be later retracted because they were caught . . . No.
 
Motherwit . . .
I tried to find your previous posts on this but couldn’t see your posting history.
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Hmmmm. (Maybe someone is shadow banning me. Ha ha.)
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Coronavirus: Facts vs. Panic Separating facts from irrational fear in the global virus pandemic World News
PattyIt . . . I hadn’t read about ACE inhibitors having an effect on severity of Corona, yet. A major aspect of the mechanism of this disease that leads to death, is a hyperimmune response with autolysis of your own tissues. Basically the inflammatory mediators “digest” away your own lung tissue in certain susceptible people. If it gets extreme enough it can suffocate a victim. This can be mitigated by using a class of medications called serine protease inhibitors (according to a scientis…
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Chinese communist newspaper: If we ban drug exports, US falls into coronavirus ‘hell’ World News
Tis_Bearself . . . While I agree with bringing production back home, I wasn’t aware there were any drugs effective against the COVID-19 virus. Theoretically serine protease inhibitors MAY help here. Q: Why? A: Well first of all they won’t help eliminate the virus. Q: OK Cathoholic. WHY would (may) serine protease inhibitors such as Camostat help Corona Virus victims. A: With serious morbidity associated with Corona Virus, people get a hyper-immune response. (I am talking about the …
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There's a drug combo to shorten coronavirus, French researchers say World News
Their attorney will just say the patient NEEDED immunity. Not a lack of it. Having a greater understanding of WHY people die, helps bring light to WHY in some sense, immunosupression is beneficial (with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine). Stops a hyper-inflammatory response that can actually cause self-harm to lungs. Yet you would not want to immune supress totally (like with some of the anti-cancer agents). Because your recovery is dependent upon not just avoiding auto-destruction of your…
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Pfizer says its potential coronavirus treatment won't start testing until August World News
Pfizer says its potential coronavirus treatment won’t start testing until August Apr. 10, 2020 - 3:10 - Reaction and analysis from Fox News medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel. Dr. Siegal talks about (among other things), “protease inhibitors”. I mentioned these here several weeks ago here on CAF based on a telephone discussion I had with a scientist. Here is that again. Remember. In Japan they are already using protease inhibitors for other diseases. The Camostat I mentioned is …
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FDA grants emergency authorisation to chloroquine for COVID-19 World News
LeafByNiggle . . . Here’s the drug that is being seriously tested now, and with some encouraging early results: Remdesivir. There are a lot of drugs being seriously looked at. I was just commenting on that today elsewhere (here). Cathoholic . . . Look up “Camostat” and “Cathoholic”. Look up “remdesivir” and “Cathoholic”. Look up “plasma” and “Cathoholic”. It is being talked about. But there are a couple of things at play here. The medical community has vast experience with Plaqueni…
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More optimistic good news on Corona Virus treatment! (There will undoubtedly be studies with remdesivir and things like hydroxychloroquine and the Japanese drug, Camostat looking for synergistic benefit too!) Excitement Is High’: Coronavirus Patients Reportedly Recovering Quickly After Taking Remdesivir [Head of the Institute of Transfusion Medicine Sven Peine speaks during a press conference about the start of a study with the Ebola drug Remdesivir in particularly severely ill patients at th…
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TMC . . . What is odd to me about the focus on hydroxychloroquine is that there are at least half a dozen other drugs being tested and/or used under experimental or compassionate approval. Why no discussion of those drugs? Look up “Camostat” and “Cathoholic”. Look up “remdesivir” and “Cathoholic”. Look up “plasma” and “Cathoholic”. It is being talked about. But there are a couple of things at play here. The medical community has vast experience with Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) and a…
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80 Patients and Staff Members Come Down with Coronavirus at Texas Nursing Home – Hydroxychloroquine Treatment Saves All But 1 Patient World News
ProVobis . . . HCQ alone or HCQ with zinc? That’s a good question. They will have to do groups with HCQ + antibiotic (like azithromycin another study using doxycycline, or cephalexin, or whatever). They will do groups with and without zinc. (You won’t be able to take the zinc with tetracyclines though due to zinc-binding of the tetracycline. But they could still include it in studies and just give it staggered from the doxycycline). There might even be other limbs like adding in Camosta…
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There was only one link embedded in those posts and it was Breitbart News which is an extreme right wing tabloid.
 
Motherwit said:
There was only one link embedded in those posts and it was Breitbart News which is an extreme right wing tabloid.
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Try responding to the arguments made, not deflecting with ad hominem on the source.
Being ‘right’ or ‘left’ doesn’t mean the source article isn’t making valid and supported points.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is your comment that is misleading because either you are going to compare…
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I’m not making comparisons.
You are.

I pointing out that it is misleading to claim that Sweden is not densely populated and is therefore already social distancing when the cities in it are several time more densely populated.
 
I pointing out that it is misleading to claim that Sweden is not densely populated and is therefore already social distancing when the cities in it are several time more densely populated.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
This thread is all about comparing Sweden with other countries, namely the US.
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I believe most swedes live in urban cities, not in farm houses miles apart. Comparing densities at a national level provides no meaningful insight.
 
Theo520 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
This thread is all about comparing Sweden with other countries, namely the US.
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I believe most swedes live in urban cities, not in farm houses miles apart. Comparing densities at a national level provides no meaningful insight.
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Even in Stockholm, the population density is only half of what it is in New York City. And why are we comparing Sweden to New York and New Jersey anyway? Why not compare Sweden to Minnesota or Iowa or any number of other states that have a lower covid death rate per capita than Sweden? If this thread is supposed to show that “Sweden was right and we were wrong”, that is not the way to do it. Now I think you said a while ago that we don’t know if Sweden’s strategy will turn out to be a winner yet, because we have to wait until it is all over. I think I agree with that. It might turn out so. But it is way too early to declare them the winner yet, especially since they are currently behind. But we are only in the 2nd inning or so, or the first quarter or set or end or period.
 
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These are being discussed at the medical/scientific level but as yet aren’t featuring in the politics of the virus.
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Apologies for any offense caused. My question had been in search of official sources for the claims being made and all I could find in the listed posts was Breitbart news which is not medicine/science based. It’s just a right wing news source.
 
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Thbolt said:
It would make the most sense to compare Sweden with Norway and Finland and see which did and is doing the best. It’s strange that there is call for the US to emulate Sweden, which has 10 times the death rate from COVID as the other countries.
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Where do you get your numbers? The global average is 100 deaths/mill pop. The US has x5 this average, but I wouldn’t put too much faith in the reporting of many countries.

The US is in line with Sweden, UK, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium.

What becomes apparent to me is how culture is more of a driver of infection rates, how they respect personal space and how touchy they are with friends and family.

If Sweden had a more Mediterranean culture, I believe they would have a much higher infection/death rate.
 
Thbolt said:
I get the numbers from worldometer. Sweden (572 per million) has a much higher death rate than both Finland (60) and Norway (48) from Covid.
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Same place I get the numbers, I thought you said they were x10 the average, not two countries. Yes, Norway and Finland have really crushed the spread of the virus.
 
death rate curve
Who has flattened it better? New York or Sweden?
New York
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NEW YORK HANDS DOWN.
 
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umamibella on the report of
Sweden being correct with their no lockdown strategy
(Sweden’s strategy to obtain immunity for their country)
blaming “the reporter” . . .
Makes no sense at all, The reporter has not thought this through.
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The reporter doesn’t need to think it through.
The reporter just needs to report.

In this case the reporter got it right.

The reporter’s report is exactly consistent with what the World Health Organization (WHO) has said too . . . .

WHO says Sweden should be world model for coronavirus response​

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WHO says Sweden should be world model for coronavirus response World News
WHO says Sweden should be world model for coronavirus response May. 01, 2020 - 2:25 - Reaction and analysis from Copenhagen Consensus Center president Bjorn Lomborg. https://video.foxnews.com/v/6153524021001?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips
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LeafByNiggle said:
even if there is no vaccine, isolation until it dies out means we can open up afterwards
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The virus won’t die out.

The only virus I know of that has disappeared from the world is smallpox–but it’s still around, under lock and key in high security labs in several countries.

The virus will be around forever, and people will continue to “catch it” and some will die from it. But many will miss a week or two of work/school, and feel awful while they’re resting at home–but they won’t require hospitalization or even a doctor’s visit, and they’ll recover more or less fully. (They may suffer from weakness, respiratory issues, aches and pains, etc. for a few months.)

I think a vaccine is a realistic expectation, but I think it will be like the influenze vaccine–a year or even bi-yearly inoculation.

LeafByNiggle, what I think you have to keep in mind is that there are really awful effects as a result of the shut-down and the “panic” that the media is disseminating about this virus. I listened to the early a.m. (4:00 a.m!) AgNews this morning, and the message was grim–around 20% of restaurants will close permenantly–and this affects farmers and many others.

For people like me who work in hospitals with actual patient care (not just administration), my job is pretty secure at the moment–we are so short-staffed and no one is applying. But so many others–oh, it’s so sad!–so many others have lost everything. I’m sure people like Dave Ramsay would say, “Well, they should have had six months of income saved up.” Well, even if they did, it’s been six months at the end of August, and that savings is gone even for the Ramsay disciples.

So sad. I honestly think we could have done without the massive shutdown. I think basic safety practices like hand-washing and masks for older folks and others at risk (and anyone else who chose to wear them) would prevent many people from catching coronavirus.

But no matter how careful we are, many of us WILL get infected, probably through a one-time “mistake” on our part–e.g., touching a contaminated doorknob and then rubbing our eyes a minute later.

We can’t keep doing this. We can’t keep the country on lockdown. Although some kids do well with online learning, many don’t, and there are social skills that they are not learning–I fear for them if this continues. It’s awful. Just awful.

I will be very interested to see what Vice Pres. Biden does differently if he is elected, which I fear he will be. I think he’ll find it easier to talk than act when it comes to a virus.
 
RuthAnne said:
I’m just glad I live where I do. People around here aren’t wearing diapers on their faces. Even the cops don’t comply.
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Who’s wearing diapers on their faces? And as far as cops not complying, is there a mandate in your area?
 
LeafByNiggle . . .
Even Sweden’s urban centers are not as dense as New York City
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Why bother bringing this up when it doesn’t really matter to you?

You have had ample opportunity to criticise California’s mandates.

There are vast rural areas in California.

Viruses don’t care about state borders (or national borders with Sweden).

I want to give you the chance to SHOW me you really affirm what you are saying, by being consistent and condemning Democrat Governor Newsome’s universal (even in the low-populated rural areas) mandates.

So go ahead . . . .
 
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