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Cathoholic
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Your “applause” and their efforts are not enough to feed people starving of “Biblical proportions”.
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Pattylt
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A data point I read about today…while the average age of death from Covid overall is around 80 years old, the average age of death of medical workers from Covid is 57 years old.
I’m amazed any medical workers are still working and bless them that they are. Several large hospitals across the country are at 99-100% capacity with Covid cases. We still need to mitigate!
I’m amazed any medical workers are still working and bless them that they are. Several large hospitals across the country are at 99-100% capacity with Covid cases. We still need to mitigate!
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Cathoholic
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Actually I was thinking it was the other way around.
Deaths per million people
are better in Sweden
despite Sweden KILLING their own people with corona virus in many cases!
There are many countries with very strict mandates that are WORSE than Sweden including . . . .
Belgium
Peru
Italy
Spain
The United Kingdom.
Even the USA, Argentina, Mexico, France, Brazil, Chile, and others all surpass Sweden
in deaths per million people from corona virus.
Even with Sweden actively essentially euthanizing many of their own people!
In other words, you cannot make conclusions based upon mitigation.
Mitigation only slows down the spread. It mitigates the spread. Not stops it.
You have to follow countries out LONGER before you can even TRY to draw “conclusions” Motherwit.
How long is going to be different for each country.
And when you are murdering your own people (like Sweden was [is?], all bets are off regarding “corona deaths” too.
The other thing is your paradigm so far ignores “risks” (except for your “applause” re other people’s efforts. Starvation of “Biblical proportions” is a pretty big thing for you to ignore.).
I am affirming the risks associated with infections. But you are not asserting the risks associated with locking down countries/states. At least to any appreciable degree (your “applause”
again being one exception. But that still does not help people feed themselves.).
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Cathoholic
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Motherwit. You posted an article that said . . . .
Or disagree?
.
For everyone else. The article ALSO said . . . .
Do you agree with that from the article you posted?
Or disagree?
.
For everyone else. The article ALSO said . . . .
Bold mine.
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Theo520
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Closing gyms, pools and libraries for a month is prudent but not extreme. A smart move given there will be increased socializing over the holidays and they have increasing cases.
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Cathoholic
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I think it could be prudent. . . If the people shutting down were doing that of their own volition.
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Theo520
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The Morning Briefing: If Lockdowns Work Why Is California a Global COVID-19 Hotspot?
And here is Cali vs Sweden, normalized by population.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I expect Sweden will attenuate their infection rate without implementing Cali level measures.
And here is Cali vs Sweden, normalized by population.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I expect Sweden will attenuate their infection rate without implementing Cali level measures.
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toabb
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meh… even if that graph is correct, and it’s a big IF, what’s the point of comparing Sweden to the USA? Sweden for one has a more universal healthcare system that allows even the poor healthcare access. The USA? not so much… People in Sweden are much more healthy than the USA, especially in poorer communities. Whole lotta factors need to be looked at before plotting a single graph and drawing a conclusion…
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This has been the type of distorted comparisons the covid deniers have used all year. Truthful data about the effectiveness of lockdowns must compare like with like.
It would be more accurate to compare Stockholm County data with Los Angeles county data because they are both gateway cities which are the main entry point for the virus. That would show that LA with 10 million people and 8875 deaths so far has a rate per capita of 88.75 deaths per 100,000 population compared to Stockholm with 2.3 million pop. and 3064 deaths so far. That is 130 deaths per 100,000 pop.
A more accurate gauge of the effectiveness of lockdown is to look at Denmark, Finland, Norway and compare them to Sweden. It’s an abuse of science to do otherwise.
It would be more accurate to compare Stockholm County data with Los Angeles county data because they are both gateway cities which are the main entry point for the virus. That would show that LA with 10 million people and 8875 deaths so far has a rate per capita of 88.75 deaths per 100,000 population compared to Stockholm with 2.3 million pop. and 3064 deaths so far. That is 130 deaths per 100,000 pop.
A more accurate gauge of the effectiveness of lockdown is to look at Denmark, Finland, Norway and compare them to Sweden. It’s an abuse of science to do otherwise.
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Cathoholic
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No it would not be more accurate.
And you already know why.
You already know Sweden was killing its corona virus patients and Los Angeles County was not.
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Theo520
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I assure you it’s accurate. In fact here is a link, you can play with the data.
Sweden vs California NORMALIZED by population
I compared them with CA, not the whole USA, and the data has been NORMALIZE BY POPULATION
I did this in response to a poster that said Sweden’s strategy was an abject failure. California gives good contrast since they’ve had fairly aggressive lock down mandates to mitigate the virus.
Face the facts, the data on sweden doesn’t support the claim they have failed miserably. You can’t explain it away by insisting they are just more healthy, a meaningless assertion since I compared new infections (virus spread), which should reflect steps to stop/reduce transmission.
Below is a normalized comparison on deaths for Sweden, EU, & California. The Swedes kinda look less healthy
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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tomarin
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The Swedish political opposition is calling for the resignation of the Health Minister over the failure of their coronavirus policy. The worm is turning.
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Cathoholic
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Dennis Prager on risks and benefits of lockdowns.
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That November propaganda piece by Dennis Prager was voided long ago.
This is up to date reviews…
This is up to date reviews…
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Cathoholic
Guest
Motherwit. WHY do you keep posting links that contradict what you are saying?
The PragerU item was posted November 19th.
YOU posted an article saying the increasing strictness was being introduced (your article was from December 19th).
Prager speculated on herd immunity. Did not assert it. Go back and watch the video.
Clearly they are heading toward herd immunity as each and every person develops immune competence against corona virus. That is just a fact.
Anti-body measurements do not tell the whole story. You know that. I and others have asserted that right here on this thread.
Why don’t you explain WHY physiologically you cannot measure immunity with mere antibodies?
Do you understand Prager was right concerning no school shutdowns too? Even NOW I don’t think Sweden has shut down schools.
Do you think Prager was wrong about Sweden’s rankings that he stated too (he said 20th and speculated other numbers for the future which is of course “speculation”)?
The WHO has never changed their assertion (as far as I know) about Sweden’s former strategy being a “model”.
I think Sweden is making a mistake by acting as though mitigation is a stopping force for corona virus.
You cannot beat a virus with emotions.
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Prager is arguing that if a man can’t work to provide for his family then he is basically emotionally emasculated. It’s all about his emotional side effect.
Practical men on the other hand recognize an extraordinary crisis situation and seek to protect his family from extermination by covid.
So I’m not tricked by your claim.
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Cathoholic
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I disagree with your “all” assertion here.
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Except when they and their families are not eating due to famine of “Biblical proportions”. Then food becomes the priority.
Not them being forced to help other people in dodging a viral infection.
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Theo520
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I expect the opposition in every country is using the virus to press for their advancement. Either the party in power has done too little or too much.
However, the recent rise in Swedish cases is a concern. I wonder what is behind the sudden jump.
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OraLabora
Guest
Here in Canada, the opposition parties have been remarkably non-partisan on at least the medical aspects of the pandemic and associated control measures. In Québec in the last couple of days, all parties even got together to issue a unanimous message on control measures, in particular avoiding travel and gatherings.
There’s a bit more grumbling on economic mitigation measures, but not that much really. The federal government is in a minority situation and can be overturned by the opposition parties, but nobody really wants an election during a pandemic.
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Cathoholic
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The real scientific strategy behind societal lockdowns outlined by Stanford Professor of Medicine (it is to “slow” the spread. It has never been to “stop” the spread.) . . . .
Full video here . . .
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California doctor calls lockdowns ‘failure of imagination,’ as state becomes epicenter of outbreak | Fox News Video
Full video here . . .
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California doctor calls lockdowns ‘failure of imagination,’ as state becomes epicenter of outbreak | Fox News Video
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