Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

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AlNg said:
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Cathoholic:
I have seen a few leftist politicians who have given confused messages on masks and social distancing saying one thing with their mouth, while doing another thing with their actions.
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Exactly right. Nancy Pelosi, governor Gavin Newsom, Chris Cuomo, Dr. Fauci and many others have been posturing, demanding we restrict our social interactions, demanding that everyone wear a mask because they claim that Covid-19 is a deadly, easily contracted virus. If Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsom, Chris Cuomo and Dr. Fauci really believed that Covid-19 was deadly and easily contracted, why would they go around risking their own lives by not wearing masks?
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The times they appear on camera without a mask you can be sure that they have cleared the area around the speaker, and do wear a mask when around other people. The cameraman is probably 20 feet away, if indeed there is a live cameraman, and not a remote operated camera. It is offensive to hardworking public servants like Dr. Fauci to call his earnest recommendations “posturing”. How do you feel about Fr. Frank Pavone’s public statements being called “posturing?”
 
LeafByNiggle ignoring these people running around blowing-off mandates and/or recomendations, when they think they are on camera (in some instances). . . . .
LeafByNiggle said:
The times they appear on camera without a mask you can be sure that they have cleared the area around the speaker, and do wear a mask when around other people. The cameraman is probably 20 feet away
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So you are saying it’s OK for the rest of the world to police themselves on that too right?

And all the Democrat fine for being without a mask, or attempts to get public worship shut-down, etc. were all without merit (and for all I know you spoke out for that here on CAF and can link those posts)?

Or is it just OK for the Democrst politicians to do this?
 
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billsherman said:
There are 13 vaccines from several different countries in phase III trials. Several are on the cusp of approval.
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OK. Pick your favorite vaccine, any one of them, and explain to me WHY in principle,
being vaccinated would eliminate the need for mitigation with the principles employed in today’s political climate.
 
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LeafByNiggle on the Democrat politicisn double-standard for themselves and Fauci ignoring them . . .
LeafByNiggle said:
You misunderstand the proper role of the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease.
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Ahhh. So the issue is me and my misunderstanding.

Somehow I figured that’s where it would wind up.

In the meantime, Fauci has not had a problem correcting many other people he is not politically in line with by his actions.

So I suggest you tell him to not do that either.

It doesn’tbwork Leaf.

You cannot have a separate standard for Democrats, Democrat politicians, then everyone else.

Such a political caste system will not be consistent with the ethos of this country.
 
Cathoholic said:
Pick your favorite vaccine, any one of them, and explain to me WHY in principle,
being vaccinated would eliminate the need for mitigation with the principles employed in today’s political climate.
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I don’t think you understand the purpose of vaccination. Vaccination, itself, is a mitigation tool. The best one we have.
 
Cathoholic said:
Why not explain to me the physiology of stimulating B-cells in a vaccine and clue me in?
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I’m not a scientist of any kind, so I can’t do that.

Are you denying that vaccines are effective mitigation tools?

I don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
 
billsherman said:
I’m not a scientist of any kind, so I can’t do that.

Are you denying that vaccines are effective mitigation tools?

I don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
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The point is mitigation via vaccines, would not eliminate the “need” for further mitigation with “masking-up”, social distancing, or quarantining HEALTHY people.

At least if you continue to use the excuses that are being used today.

You will still have vaccinated elderly and vulnerable, that you won’t know for sure, if they have antibody.

And even if they do have antibody, they still could get infected as at least IgG mediated antibody is in the bloodstream.

Corona virus contagion, occurrs via the respiratory mucosa or wet surfaces.

So it can do a lot of harm to the disease recipient, before it even get INTO the blood stream to recruit antibodies against it.

If the viral load is enough, these people can HAVE antibody and still die from the respiratory cell harm that occurrs BEFORE the virions hit the bloodstream.

(None of what I said here even attempts to deal with the risk-benefit ratios of various vaccines - some of which will kill their recipients, others will have to endure permanent harm from the vaccine or tangential issues associated with the vaccine.)

That is part of WHY influenza patients have issues too.

What we will need, is a safe effective pharmacuetical agent administered early on. (HCQ might fit that, but it has not been studied in the proper cohorts for political reasons. An absolute travesty of what SHOULD be occurring.)

Tamiflu is such an agent right now for those with the flu.

So due to this, all these ancillary means of mitigating will still be necessary.

At least if you follow the “reasons” WHY politicians are forcing them on us now.

So as you can deduce, these mandates must be PERMANENT . . . or the principles of what they are telling us will need to change.

It cannot be any other way.
 
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Cathoholic said:
It cannot be any other way.
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You should look into how vaccines work a little bit more than not at all.

Once a large enough portion of the population is vaccinated, the pandemic will be mitigated.

Vaccination will probably be required until the virus is eradicated, or is so minor as be insignificant. Like with polio.
 
billsherman said:
Vaccination will probably be required until the virus is eradicated, or is so minor as be insignificant. Like with polio.
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Polio causes neurologic harm by traversing through the BLOODSTREAM to vulnerable nerves.

Corona virus causes harm to the respiratory cells BEFORE it hits the bloodstream.

Blood-based antibody (IgM and later IgG) may help with endorgan damage,
but will not protect you against getting coronavirus in the first place because the respiratory epithelium is being attacked by coronavirus via the airway. Not via the bloodstream.

In the airway you need a different antibody (IgA) and right now, we do not know how to stimulate this subset of antibody.
 
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Cathoholic said:
So as you can deduce, these mandates must be PERMANENT . . . or the principles of what they are telling us will need to change.

It cannot be any other way.
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There is no disease in history that’s ever resulted in permanent lockdowns/restrictions. That’s such a far fetched conclusion that in all the chatter about Covid, you are the only one I’ve ever heard suggest it.
 
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