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Cathoholic
Guest
I’ll have to remember that retort
the next time I get germ-shamed for wanting the Mass available for everyone.
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the next time I get germ-shamed for wanting the Mass available for everyone.
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Pattylt
Guest
How are those HCZ studies going these days…talk about a drug that fell off the face of the earth from a few months ago. Should we still be taking it for early Covid?
How about the schools that were open but had to go online due to many teachers getting Covid? This is what’s happening in my city.
And our hospital is overwhelmed due to the number of patients AND the shortages of staff out sick. New patients were being transferred to the hospital in the next town 40 miles away but then they got overwhelmed, too…same reasons.
What exactly is it that you want the country to DO. Stop being hysterical? Sure. That helps no one but our area is bombarded with infections right now. What’s your suggestion? Should we reopen schools on Jan 5th…the current plan…if we are still surging with cases?
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Cathoholic
Guest
I think you need to go back and re-read the posts PattyIt.
The “hydroxychloroquine” is tangential to what we were discussing. (But that would be another issue for a different thread.)
I think if you re-read the posts you will figure it out.
Here too.
Please go back and read my posts over the months and you can read it for yourself there.
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Pattylt
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No, thanks.
Talk about emotional hysterics…you seem to want everyone to apologize for every misstep they’ve taken. I agree, missteps have been made. It’s about POWER…ooooo, not the dreaded power scenario…they’re going to permanently mask us…ooooo, the horror…
. . . . I brought up HTZ partly because that was a topic you couldn’t drop…you had it all figured out, if they’d just listen to you (and Brietbart). I just had to be a bit snarky on how you’re now totally silent on it!
What I am still trying to figure out is, now that we made all these horrible mistakes, what do you want the country to pivot TO? Covid is massively surging in many areas. Whatcha gunna do?
Me? I’m going to get the vaccine and get on with my life. Those that refuse? They had better shut up about getting the economy going because they’ll be the reason it’s delayed! I’m sure they won’t, though.
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StudentMI
Guest
Just spoke with a nurse at a hospital a few days ago about Covid. In addition to confirming that it’s getting bad again, she recounted the height of it and how horrible it was with people dying left and right, and casually mentioning she lost friends to it.
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Pattylt
Guest
I will, thank you…as I always have in spite of you ordering me otherwise.
I have honestly been trying to figure out exactly what you are saying in most of your posts. You rail at what has been done. You seem assured that POWER is taking over, like that’s something new. You claim that we’ve done much wrong and are locking down the wrong people even though we were opening back up but just too slowly for your taste? What I haven’t seen, is how you think we should proceed forward, now, in our current resurgence of Covid. I do know you want everyone to decide for themselves…how do you think that will work out?
I’d really like to hear your Christian perspective on how we move forward. The answers I have gleaned are ones that will have massive more resurgence. Is that ok? Fewer will die since we’re better at treating it now…is that good enough?
Do you now withdraw your advocacy of hydroxychloroquine @Cathoholic?
Do you also withdraw your advocacy of herd immunity? Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks
And in relation to this thread “Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong”, will you concede that even Sweden has recognized it was a mistake?
"Prime Minister Stefan Lofven declared Nov. 16 that Swedes were not following restrictions as closely as they did in the spring, so gatherings during the next four weeks would be limited to eight people. “This is the new norm for the entire society,” he said. “Don’t go to gyms, don’t go to libraries, don’t host dinners. Cancel.” Mr. Lofven gave a nationally televised speech on Sunday reiterating that people should “call it off, cancel, postpone.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...90ee28-3344-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html
@Cathoholic could we entice you to abandon the libertarian world view as an unworkable theory in practice?
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jeannetherese
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It’s possible that this analysis is flawed. There are many ways of supporting the poor and people argue all the time on CAF as to which are best and most effective. (one of the recent posters who is against the lockdown as it stands has mentioned serving at food banks which is, of course, one way of supporting the poor.)
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Cathoholic
Guest
I have not “advocated” any medicine here.
What I have advocated is that this is supposed to be the choice of the physicians.
And I have also said that not one study disparages HCQ usage in the cohorts that the Drs. recommend.
I stand by all of what I said.
If you want more, please start a thread on it.
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Cathoholic
Guest
You are again misquoting me.
What I have said is herd immunity cannot be measured with antibody response.
Physiologically soeaking . . . Do you know WHY this is true?
I stand by everything I have said.
I’ve also been a long time volunteer in charity work. That poster is not the norm for people actually working among the poor and sick. The limitations in serving everybody in need due to under funding and lack of resources is so frustrating. Some volunteers spend full time applying for grants and subsidies. I’ve never come across anyone in the field who thinks that “healthcare is not a right. It is a privilege”, which is an oft chanted mantra of the far right leaners. Another mantra is that charity is the responsibility of Churchs, not the government. No one working in the field thinks that the Church can meet the volume of need out there. So perhaps that poster hasn’t been involved in charity for very long or knows the fulltime work involved in just getting some government assistance for the ministry.Motherwit:
It’s possible that this analysis is flawed. There are many ways of supporting the poor and people argue all the time on CAF as to which are best and most effective. (one of the recent posters who is against the lockdown as it stands has mentioned serving at food banks which is, of course, one way of supporting the poor.)
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jeannetherese
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I don’t know, Motherwit. I see all kinds of people volunteering in St Vincent de Paul, baby corners, food banks and I don’t encounter a monolithic viewpoint on how to address poverty, nor do I encounter only one perspective on universal healthcare from those “in the field”.
It’s possible that in certain circles, one might be more likely to encounter others who amplify or echo one’s own viewpoints. It’s also possible for one to say "no true volunteer would ever take …position, but it seems to be moving into no true Scotsman territory. I think that there might be room for a plurality of viewpoints and approaches.
It’s possible that in certain circles, one might be more likely to encounter others who amplify or echo one’s own viewpoints. It’s also possible for one to say "no true volunteer would ever take …position, but it seems to be moving into no true Scotsman territory. I think that there might be room for a plurality of viewpoints and approaches.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Aside from your mischaracterization of me . . . . Who is the “we” you apparently presume to speak for?
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Pope Francis and me for two.Motherwit:
Aside from your mischaracterization of me . . . . Who is the “we” you apparently presume to speak for?
I cannot but speak of the serious risks associated with the invasion, at high levels of culture and education in both universities and in schools, of positions of libertarian individualism . A common feature of this fallacious paradigm is that it minimizes the common good, that is, “living well”, a “good life” in the community framework, and exalts the selfish ideal that deceptively proposes a “beautiful life”. If individualism affirms that it is only the individual who gives value to things and interpersonal relationships, and so it is only the individual who decides what is good and what is bad, then libertarianism, today in fashion, preaches that to establish freedom and individual responsibility, it is necessary to resort to the idea of “self-causation”. Thus libertarian individualism denies the validity of the common good because on the one hand it supposes that the very idea of “common” implies the constriction of at least some individuals, and the other that the notion of “good” deprives freedom of its essence.
The radicalization of individualism in libertarian and therefore anti-social terms leads to the conclusion that everyone has the “right” to expand as far as his power allows, even at the expense of the exclusion and marginalization of the most vulnerable majority . Bonds would have to be cut inasmuch as they would limit freedom. By mistakenly matching the concept of “bond” to that of “constraint”, one ends up confusing what may condition freedom – the constraints – with the essence of created freedom, that is, bonds or relations, family and interpersonal, with the excluded and marginalized, with the common good, and finally with God.
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Cathoholic
Guest
I’ll PM him here and talk about it with him then if you think that.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Will you concede that even the most severe lockdown mask-up areas are now still being ravaged by corona virus (again right now) anyway and it was a mistake to IMPOSE upon the people this all for nothing but a delay?
The reality proves you wrong. Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan are not being ‘ravaged by corona virus’ again and the vaccine is nearly here. Lockdowns have worked to such a great extent that these countries don’t need large scale lockdowns anymore. They just handle the traceable spot fires and life has been freed up to almost normal.Motherwit:
Will you concede that even the most severe lockdown mask-up areas are now still being ravaged by corona virus (again right now) anyway and it was a mistake to IMPOSE upon the people this all for nothing but a delay?
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AlNg
Guest
Exactly right. Nancy Pelosi, governor Gavin Newsom, Chris Cuomo, Dr. Fauci and many others have been posturing, demanding we restrict our social interactions, demanding that everyone wear a mask because they claim that Covid-19 is a deadly, easily contracted virus. If Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsom, Chris Cuomo and Dr. Fauci really believed that Covid-19 was deadly and easily contracted, why would they go around risking their own lives by not wearing masks?
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Cathoholic
Guest
This proves nothing. It is mere mitigation.
Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan also have no or little human physiologic immunity.
(Interesting you use non-mandated-masking Denmark as a paragon of success though. I agree with you there on that part.)
Follow those people out long enough in a global climate and sooner or later they will need to deal with it. Or they will need to isolate themselves forever.
Those are the choices.
That’s what mitigation does. Postpones this.
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billsherman
Guest
They mitigated it well enough, that they bought themselves enough time for the vaccine.
We, on the other hand, managed to make the virus a partisan issue and shot ourselves in the foot.
We will, if we don’t already, easily have the highest number of deaths in the world, and will end up taking a much heavier blow to the economy than if we just acted like responsible adults.
But no. We acted like the spoiled, entitled children we are. In the end, we will have killed hundreds of thousands of people, and transferred significantly more wealth to the upper .001% than imaginable.
For what? I guess making Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk even richer is worth any price. Is the American middle class really that insecure?
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