Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Studies show that very young children do not transmit the virus nearly as often as adults or older childr

Actually studies SHOWED that . . . way back when.

The “experts” were wrong despite having the information before them.

It was political.

The experts never did say that young children transmit the virus just the same as adults. That was recognized and proclaimed by the experts many months ago. You are relying on a made-up narrative supplied to you by Tucker Carlson if you think that was not known until now.

 

[Cathoholic]

The experts never did say that young children transmit the virus just the same as adults.

That is changing the premise to fit your argument.

They didn’t have to.

They just got hysterical about open schools telling us how this malfeasance, death, destruction, etc.

Banning or suspending on Twitter those who were saying this was hogwash too. All in the name of “fact checking” and “responsibility for public health”.

We all remember it Leaf.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

The experts never did say that young children transmit the virus just the same as adults.

That is changing the premise to fit your argument.

You that reply so many times in ways that don’t make sense it makes one wonder if you know what “changing the premise” means. As I have said every other time you used this description incorrectly, I am not changing your premise. I am rejecting it.

They didn’t have to.

They just got hysterical about open schools telling us how this malfeasance, death, destruction, etc.

The people deciding to close schools were not the same people as the medical experts who said that children do not spread the virus as much as adults.

Banning or suspending on Twitter those who were saying this was hogwash too.

The Twitter people are yet a third group, and I don’t think anyone was banned from Twitter for saying that schools should remain open.

We all remember it Leaf.

“We” do not.

 

[Cathoholic]

You that reply so many times

That’s because you keep arguing that way Leaf.

Just don’t change my premise when your putting forth an argument and I can stop revealing the logic problems.

I would be happy to see you quit changing my premises. Then we can have a better discussion.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle on remembering experts saying opening the schools would be malfeasance, etc. . . .

“We” do not.

OK. If I dug up a video of Nancy Pelosi saying this, will you call for her to step down with me right now on this thread?

Or will I be wasting my time, posting the video?

How bout the battle between Rand Paul and Dr. Fauci over this last summer?

If I can find video of Fauci saying we should keep schools closed, will you join me here and now calling upon President Trump to fire him?

Or if I did that would it be another wild goose chase?

 

[Pattylt]

So, what should we do now…today?

This novel virus started as a complete unknown. The scientists and leaders worked as frantically as they could to understand the transmission and just how deadly it was. Mistakes were made. Some of the mistakes were made in good faith, doing what they thought was best. Some were wrong…some, more wrong than others. Agreed. No argument from me.

So, starting today, what should we do and what should we not do? The virus is out of control again. Massive hospitalizations are happening right now. We are much better at treating it so more people are surviving but we still can’t really predict who will live and who will die.

Should we continue as we’ve been doing until the vaccine is readily available?

Should we just open society and let each person decide how they want to proceed?

Should we try another two week lockdown with only essential services available?

Should the government define what a mask is and provide them?

Should mandates be made and enforced? Which ones?

All I hear is how badly we responded and how wrong we were…that’s old news. What should we do NOW?

Will those that are so quick to blame and point fingers with all their past knowledge please tell us the correct way forward so they can be happy or at least, feel justified at how correct they’ve been?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

OK. If I dug up a video of Nancy Pelosi saying this,…

Wait. I thought we were talking about what health experts say, not what the Speaker of the House says.

How bout the battle between Rand Paul and Dr. Fauci over this last summer?

How about it? What is the point you want to make?

If I can find video of Fauci saying we should keep schools closed…

You mean without qualifications? I don’t think you can find such a video (without qualifications).

 

[Cathoholic]

That’s about what I thought I’d hear. Which is WHY I didn’t bother to dig up videos for nothing.

Meanwhile the schools closed (many still are closed Leaf) at the behest of the (wrong) experts.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

That’s about what I thought I’d hear. Which is WHY I didn’t bother to dig up videos for nothing.

I agree. You should not waste your time digging up videos that don’t prove your point,

Meanwhile the schools closed (many still are closed Leaf) at the behest of the (wrong) experts.

They closed in spite of what the experts told us. The experts told adults to wear masks and avoid unnecessary close gatherings. The adults refused to comply, feeling their right to go to the gym and develop their 6-pack abs was more important than keeping kids in school. Since the adults refused to prioritize education, the schools were closed while the gyms remained open.

 

[Cathoholic]

I’m too busy to respond to this.

Go ahead and think whatever you want Leaf.

 

[Cathoholic]

To the readers here.

In a few weeks these same guys
are going to be MANDATING (for all practical purposes) you get a vaccine
that was produced in some cases in two days,
telling you “masking-up”,
social distancing,
and lockdowns or quarantining HEALTHY people (at least to some extent)
just doesn’t get the job done.

All this will be from the same people who for the last almost nine months have reassured you
that “masking-up”,
social distancing, and
lockdowns or quarantining HEALTHY people
IS going to be your proverbial messiah.

A very false messiah.

When do we say “Enough! of such foolishness?” (Many already have.)

They will even want people who have had COVID to get a vaccine.

9:43 a.m. ET, November 30, 2020

Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine was designed in just two days​

From CNN’s John Bonifield

Covid-19 vaccine maker Moderna designed its vaccine against the novel coronavirus in just two days.

On Jan. 11, Chinese authorities shared the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, according to Moderna’s website.

Two days later, on Jan. 13, the National Institutes of Health and Moderna’s infectious disease research team finalized the sequence for mRNA-1273, the formal name of the company’s Covid-19 vaccine.

The company then went on to formulate a clinical batch, according to a company spokesperson.

Moderna announced it intends to apply today to the US Food and Drug Administration for authorization of its Covid-19 vaccine. . . .

Moderna's Covid-19 vaccine was designed in just two days

They will take away at least PART of your ability to exercise common commerce
if you refuse (i.e. air travel).

Think about that for a moment.

All this for a virus that 99.5 % of people do just fine with.

This kind of thing is NOT public health.

This is the politics of control disguised as public health.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

All this for a virus that 99.5 % of people do just fine with.

Actually it is less than 80% that “do just fine”. One in five Americans know someone personally who has died from covid-19. I would not call it “doing just fine” to have a loved one die from this disease, even if I do manage to escape it.

 

[jeannetherese]

Actually it is less than 80% that “do just fine”.

Hi Leaf,
Are you suggesting that 20% of those getting Covid are dying? It seems that Cathoholic was suggestigng that the death numbers were significantly lower. He pointed to 99.5 survival if I read him right, with 0.5 % dying.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Actually it is less than 80% that “do just fine”. One in five Americans know someone personally who has died from covid-19.

Hi Leaf,
Are you suggesting that 20% of those getting Covid are dying? It seems that Cathoholic was suggestigng that the death numbers were significantly lower. He pointed to 99.5 survival if I read him right.

Read what I wrote. 20% of Americans know someone personally who has died from covid-19. My life is diminished when someone close to me dies. I would not say I am “doing fine” when someone close to me dies from covid-19. If you watch the covid-19 memorials at the end of every Friday broadcast of the PBS Newshour you will see the vast number of healthy people who are nevertheless not “doing fine” with covid-19. The mindset that “it doesn’t matter unless it happens to me” should be abhorrent to all Christians.

 

[BT3241]

Once again it has turned to the death rate none of the experts talk about the death rate because that not the issue - the pressure on the heath care system is the problem and the exhausted heath care workers not the death rate - people are surviving more because of better treatment its not like at the beginning so go on and on about the death rate that is not the issue = listen to what they are telling you its not that hard to figure out.

 

[jeannetherese]

Where are you getting your statistic?
I don’t think that people are arguing that covid" is only an issue if it is happening to me" that seems to be a straw man.
Rather, people seem to be saying that is seems to be an issue and how we choose to address it is also an issue.
You seem to be arguing that how we address it is an issue and so is Cathoholic. I have not seen any poster on CAF argue that it is only an issue if he or she gets the virus.

 

[RootKitWarrior]

Read what I wrote. 20% of Americans know someone personally who has died from covid-19. My life is diminished when someone close to me dies. I would not say I am “doing fine” when someone close to me dies from covid-19. If you watch the covid-19 memorials at the end of every Friday broadcast of the PBS Newshour you will see the vast number of healthy people who are nevertheless not “doing fine” with covid-19. The mindset that “it doesn’t matter unless it happens to me” should be abhorrent to all Christians.

Yes, that is true. A close friend a church just died in the hospital due to contracting C-19. His wife will not be far behind, her grief is bad. They been married for 60 years. They both had just lost a son several months before C-19 started.

 

[Cathoholic]

Once again it has turned to the death rate none of the experts talk about the death rate because that not the issue - the pressure on the heath care system is the problem and the exhausted heath care workers

Really? I just talked to a surgeon the other day who said his hospital was not close to capacity. (They could even take transfers from “full” hospitals but none are even asking them to.)

Also they have changed some of the bed designations from hospital beds
to swing beds or step-down or whatever.

This had the effect of artificially lowering hospital bed numbers (but also making it [I am not suggesting this is the MOTIVE] look like the hospital is stuffed to the proverbial gills).

But mitigation is just that. Mitigation. Yet mitigation efforts (masking-up, social distancing) are being falsely billed as preventives instead of delaying infections.

Quarantining HEALTHY people is just a spoof.

It is bad public health allowing this bogus message to go out to the people.

 

[BT3241]

You mean like your message

 

[tomarin]

How can you tell who is healthy and who is not? You or I could be asymptomatic carriers, or simply not showing symptoms yet (it takes 2-14 days to show symptoms, yet the carrier is still highly infectious before that). So this ‘quarantining healthy people’ mantra is not well thought out.