Romans 11:17-23 says:
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root[a] of the olive tree, 18 do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 You will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you.** 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off**. 23 And even those of Israel,[c] if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in, for ***God has the power to graft them in again. ***
In particular, vs22-23 here make little to no sense if a believer is never in danger of losing salvation. Let’s be very clear of what is being said in this passage: St. Paul is directing his comments here to a group of people who ALREADY BELIEVE. They are part of the Church of Rome. They have been baptized. They have participated in the Eucharist. They have professed their faith. And yet, St. Paul is warning them that they must not falter, or God will cut them out!!! Why would St. Paul do this if those who professed their faith were not in mortal danger of throwing their salvation away? He reminds us that it is a gift from God that we can be saved at all (God’s kindness towards you) BUT…he says in the very next phrase that WE have a role to play in our own salvation…how? “PROVIDED YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS.” This does NOT equate to “works based salvation” or any other such nonsense. The Catholic Church has never once taught that we “earn” our way to Heaven. What it means, and what the Church does teach is that God the Father wants us to want Him - and further, He wants us to demonstrate that we want Him…through not just our words (other Scripture has been used in this thread to show that) but through our actions (other posters have done an excellent job of showing that through Scripture too)
Ocuinn, do you have someone challenging you about OSAS? Are you looking for help to frame a response? Or were you asking for yourself?
Romans 11 is not speaking about an individual’s security in Christ and the context proves it. Paul is speaking about Israel as a whole, and the gentiles as a whole. If you apply your interpretation to everything else Paul says in that chapter, you would have to agree your argument makes no sense. Was all of Israel cast off?(v.21) No. Many were believers but as a whole Israel rejected Messiah. Will all of Israel be saved? (v.26) No. Many have died and have been eternally separated from God. But as a whole, in the end days, Paul prophesies that they will receive Him. The same thing could happen to the gentiles if as a whole they too reject Him. It has nothing to do with an individual’s salvation. Context is everything and when it comes to losing one’s salvation, people that believe they can lose it cite many verses that are obscure, proverbs, something from Revelation, or something referring to dying in the flesh. It is similar to the Ezekiel 18:24 verse you mentioned a while back. That verse is talking about God judging our flesh on this world and no amount of good works will wipe away any crime we commit. This makes sense and is how our Judicial system works today. You can be a saint all your life and then murder somebody in the end. The judge will lay down judgment on you for your crime, not caring that you’ve never killed before. 18:24 has nothing to do with eternal salvation.
My question is why use these verses at all. Why not just cite the verse where Jesus says if you do not continue in actively doing stuff that I want you to do, you will go to hell. If Jesus loves us so much, and even died for us on the cross while we were yet sinners, wouldn’t he mention such a crucial ingredient in going to heaven? Out of all the times he mentions that our belief is what saves us and gives us everlasting life right now, wouldn’t he just once mention the other part? Of course He would but He does not because He says of all the Father gives Him, He will not lose one. How many have to lose their eternal everlasting life to make that a lie? Just one. Why when the subject even comes up about what work one must do to be saved, Jesus still only mentions the work He must do on the cross? Would have been the perfect time to mention the other part.
I know you don’t think you’re doing works to stay saved but the very definition you gave above is exactly that. This is what you wrote “This does NOT equate to “works based salvation” or any other such nonsense. The Catholic Church has never once taught that we “earn” our way to Heaven. What it means, and what the Church does teach is that God the Father wants us to want Him - and further, He wants us to demonstrate that we want Him…through not just our words but through our actions” That is what works are and God looks at them as filthy rags when it comes to what He accepts to enter into His righteous courts. He will allow nothing but the precious blood of Jesus.
If someone is in purgatory, that means they are assured of heaven. So in fact, all those Catholics on that thread did believe they were going to heaven.