Losing salvation after being saved

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Years ago I use to be on many different forums and many of the Catholics didn’t believe in assurance of salvation.
Assurance yes, as God is faithful. OSAS, no. Die in a state of grace and the Church holds that you are heaven-bound. 1,500 years later, certain Europeans had a problem with that “state of grace” thing, so they formulated a different plan and began to teach it. OSAS puts God to the test (a no-no), and it presumes salvation no matter the amount of sin on one’s soul.

If Green River Killer Gary Ridgeway said the sinner’s prayer after each murder, is he as likely to be saved as Billy Graham? If not, why not?
 
Assurance yes, as God is faithful. OSAS, no. Die in a state of grace and the Church holds that you are heaven-bound. 1,500 years later, certain Europeans had a problem with that “state of grace” thing, so they formulated a different plan and began to teach it. OSAS puts God to the test (a no-no), and it presumes salvation no matter the amount of sin on one’s soul.

If Green River Killer Gary Ridgeway said the sinner’s prayer after each murder, is he as likely to be saved as Billy Graham? If not, why not?
OSAS would actually hold that the serial killer and hitler and any other monster will be in heaven with us if they EVER once prayed the sinners prayer.
 
OSAS would actually hold that the serial killer and hitler and any other monster will be in heaven with us if they EVER once prayed the sinners prayer.
I have searched the scriptures and cannot find the “sinner’s prayer” :confused:
 
My question is why use these verses at all. Why not just cite the verse where Jesus says if you do not continue in actively doing stuff that I want you to do, you will go to hell.
Like this one?

I am the vine, you are the branches. He who remains in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. (Jn 15:4-6)

Here Jesus pretty plainly says we have to remain in him, or else we will go to hell. But how do we remain in him? Luckily he tells us how just four verses later.

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love.

So the way we remain in Jesus is to keep his commandments. Does that qualify as Jesus telling us to do a certain action?
If Jesus loves us so much, and even died for us on the cross while we were yet sinners, wouldn’t he mention such a crucial ingredient in going to heaven? Out of all the times he mentions that our belief is what saves us and gives us everlasting life right now, wouldn’t he just once mention the other part? Of course He would but He does not
Umm…actually yes, yes he does. In addition to the verses above:

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:17)

Jesus explicitly says here again that we need to keep the commandments to enter into eternal life. Here’s some more where he tells us we need more than just belief.

He who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. (Mt 10:38)

“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mt 7:21)

5 He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments,*** and I will not blot his name out of the book of life;*** (Rev 3:3-5)

That last one explicitly says believers can be blotted out from the book of life. That means they were in it at one time, that they were saved, but then they lost it.
He says of all the Father gives Him, He will not lose one. How many have to lose their eternal everlasting life to make that a lie?
In context, he was talking about the twelve disciples there, not all believers, and he said he had not lost one except the son of perdition, Judas. Nowhere does Jesus say he will never lose a follower. He does say that no one can snatch us from him, but that’s different than us freely leaving him. If we really can never leave him, why does he tell us to remain in him?
That is what works are and God looks at them as filthy rags when it comes to what He accepts to enter into His righteous courts. He will allow nothing but the precious blood of Jesus.
I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. (Rom 12:1)

Wait, our spiritual sacrifices (which are works) are holy and acceptable to God? How can that be? I thought we were filthy rags? Not when we are in Christ, because ‘‘whoever is in Christ is a new creation, the old has past, behold the new has come’’ (2 Cor 5:17) It’s not just a legal fiction, it’s a reality.

It’s only by his grace and power that our works are worth anything of course, apart from him, we can do nothing, as he himself says. But in him, they really are worth something, and they really are pleasing to God. It’s all because of him.
 
Years ago I use to be on many different forums and many of the Catholics didn’t believe in assurance of salvation.
Not unless we know we will die in a state of grace. Since we do not know the future, that is an honest answer. But all of us hope we will remain in a state of grace at the point of death. So do you honestly believed in OSAS and that you don’t have to maintain your soul in a state of grace till death comes? And that God will take you in because a long long time ago, someone said they accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Saviour, said the Sinners prayer (which BTW is not found anywhere) and after that they thought they have a perpetual slot in heaven? Many wish God is as foolish as that to cut such a deal but that is not going to happen. He will judge based upon what you have done per Revelation Book of Life. Unless you managed to get the successors of the apostles to bind/loose that deal in earth/heaven, that method of heaven entry seems lacking in “assurance”.
That road to heaven starts with 1 step (baptism) and after that many many steps to the doors of heaven. We will stumble and fall along the way and some never managed to climb back up. That’s where Paul’s fear and trembling comes in hoping we will persevere till the end.
 
I have searched the scriptures and cannot find the “sinner’s prayer” :confused:
hello i hope this will clear up your confusion–

Romans 10:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

youtu.be/EID6AQeDjsY

jessi "saved at 24-- called into ministry

Rev. Jesse Duplantis shares how Jesus Christ transformed him from a cold-hearted 1970s rock musician into the passionate evangelist some have dubbed “The Apostle of Joy”.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation Is A Gift, Not A Reward - Jesus is Savior

www.jesus-is-savior.com/…/Lordship%20Salvation/gift_vs_reward.htm

The Bible teaches in Romans 5:15 and 6:23 that eternal life is a GIFT. … Hebrews 12:2, “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy …
 
hello i hope this will clear up your confusion–

Romans 10:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

youtu.be/EID6AQeDjsY

jessi "saved at 24-- called into ministry

Rev. Jesse Duplantis shares how Jesus Christ transformed him from a cold-hearted 1970s rock musician into the passionate evangelist some have dubbed “The Apostle of Joy”.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation Is A Gift, Not A Reward - Jesus is Savior

www.jesus-is-savior.com/…/Lordship%20Salvation/gift_vs_reward.htm

The Bible teaches in Romans 5:15 and 6:23 that eternal life is a GIFT. … Hebrews 12:2, “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy …
If you are an educated Catholic, why are you using the King James Bible and putting links to fundamentalist websites run by pedophiles evading the law and websites that attack the Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon???🤷
 
I have noticed a lot of fundamentalist who claim catholic as their religion on here so they can present their erroneous theology as if it were catholic.

Shame on you deceivers clearly wolves in Sheep clothing.
 
I haven’t heard that from many catholics. There is a poll on here for catholics and it asked whether they think they will go to heaven, hell or purgatory. The majority of catholics in this poll picked purgatory.

Wouldn’t someone who is **sure **of their salvation pick heaven?
One who dies perfect, goes straight to heaven. Are you “sure” you’re perfect?

One in Purgatory is there because they died imperfect but have no mortal sin on their soul. they however are assured of heaven because purgatory (action by God on their soul) purifies them. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

One who dies in mortal sin doesn’t go to purgatory but hell.
 
Some Scriptures to keep in mind:

Hebrews 6:1-6

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

2 Pet 2:20

20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

1 John 5:16

16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
 
If you are an educated Catholic, why are you using the King James Bible and putting links to fundamentalist websites run by pedophiles evading the law and websites that attack the Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon???🤷
That might very well be because BAA is a formerly banned SDA member. We’ll have the mods take a look, huh?
 
I have noticed a lot of fundamentalist who claim catholic as their religion on here so they can present their erroneous theology as if it were catholic.

Shame on you deceivers clearly wolves in Sheep clothing.
Yeah I’ve noticed that a lot lately too. It’s kind of sad really.
 
I have noticed a lot of fundamentalist who claim catholic as their religion on here so they can present their erroneous theology as if it were catholic.

Shame on you deceivers clearly wolves in Sheep clothing.
In their King James Version, it says that the devil is a liar and the father of lies. By their “deceptive” behavior, they defile the Body of Christ and give ammunition to the atheists.

Good job, boys!
 
In their King James Version, it says that the devil is a liar and the father of lies. By their “deceptive” behavior, they defile the Body of Christ and give ammunition to the atheists.

Good job, boys!
Looks like his post was removed…maybe he got banned too.

I guess if your OSAS lying is fair game along with everything else. Disgusting.
 
Looks like his post was removed…maybe he got banned too.

I guess if your OSAS lying is fair game along with everything else. Disgusting.
The Mod (bolded and capitalized out of fear, respect, and professional courtesy) has fumigated CAF and the troll is officially gone.
 
I don’t think a catholic could even answer this, because they don’t know if they are saved or not.
Hi tacdon!

Catholics do not presume to know more and beyond God.

That is the precise issue.

Salvation is Granted Free to all.

Yet not all will act upon Salvation.

Claiming Salvation outside of Christ is futile since it is Christ Who is our Salvation.

Claiming to be eternally Savved yet continuing to live by the flesh also is futile as the Writings demonstrate:

21 so do away with all impurities and remnants of evil. Humbly welcome the Word which has been planted in you and can save your souls. 22 But you must do what the Word tells you and not just listen to it and deceive yourselves. (St. James 1:21-22)

7 Now, will not God see justice done to his elect if they keep calling to him day and night even though he still delays to help them? 8 I promise you, he will see justice done to them, and done speedily. But when the Son of man comes, will he find any faith on earth?’ (St. Luke 18:7-8)

Salvation, you see is Guaranteed by God. Salvation, you see is not forced upon any who willing does not submit his will to God’s.

Calling on Him constantly means abiding in Him (St. John 15:1-10) so that He may abide in us (man) and thus we may receive that crown for which God has chosen us.

Recap: Salvation and Election not Removed by God (they remain till the Day); man does not always want to obey and submit to God and can/is able to not partake of the Gift!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
What’s the magic word?
Your claim causes me to ponder if Judas falsely cast out demons, or falsely healed. It causes me to wonder, as scripture says that the scribes and Pharisees frustrated God’s will for them by refusing baptism (Luke 7:30). How could an omnipotent and omniscient God be frustrated if He knew this all along? And, if He knew that He would ultimately be frustrated, why did He create them in the first place? Does even a human inventor create things that he already knows will fail?
Hi, po18guy!

The issue with Judas is deep as it was prophesied that one of His friends (one who’d eat and worshiped with Him) would betray Him.

There’s no escape for this–one of the Twelve had to betray Jesus; hence, no error in creating Judas.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I haven’t heard that from many catholics. There is a poll on here for catholics and it asked whether they think they will go to heaven, hell or purgatory. The majority of catholics in this poll picked purgatory.

Wouldn’t someone who is sure of their salvation pick heaven?
Hi tacdon!

Would that not be one who presumes to be God?

As it was pointed out previously, even St. Paul (and the rest of the Apostles) did not preach once saved you never lose Salvation. They preached adherance to Christ as the guarantee that we are Saved:

10 But when Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is alive because you have been justified; 11 and if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead has made his home in you, then he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your own mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you. 12 So then, my brothers, we have no obligation to human nature to be dominated by it. 13 If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the habits originating in the body, you will have life. 14 All who are guided by the Spirit of God are sons of God; 15 for what you received was not the spirit of slavery to bring you back into fear; you received the Spirit of adoption, enabling us to cry out, ‘Abba, Father!’ (Romans 8:10-15)

10 and you have put on a new self which will progress towards true knowledge the more it is renewed in the image of its Creator; 11 and in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised and uncircumcised, or between barbarian and Scythian, slave and free. There is only Christ: he is everything and he is in everything. 12 As the chosen of God, then, the holy people whom he loves, you are to be clothed in heartfelt compassion, in generosity and humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with one another; forgive each other if one of you has a complaint against another. The Lord has forgiven you; now you must do the same. 14 Over all these clothes, put on love, the perfect bond. 15 And may the peace of Christ reign in your hearts, because it is for this that you were called together in one body. Always be thankful. 16 Let the Word of Christ, in all its richness, find a home with you. Teach each other, and advise each other, in all wisdom. With gratitude in your hearts sing psalms and hymns and inspired songs to God; 17 and whatever you say or do, let it be in the name of the Lord Jesus, in thanksgiving to God the Father through him. (Colossians 3:10-17)

Non-Catholics do not understand about Salvation as Catholics do because their focus is claiming the text of the Scriptures that seem to demonstrate “eternally saved;” something even Christ Himself did not offer:

**If you love me you will keep my commandments. ** (St. John 14:15)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hi, po18guy!

The issue with Judas is deep as it was prophesied that one of His friends (one who’d eat and worshiped with Him) would betray Him.

There’s no escape for this–one of the Twelve had to betray Jesus; hence, no error in creating Judas.

Maran atha!

Angel
Yet, Jesus gave him several chances to repent (identifying him as the betrayer at the last supper and asking him if he would - was willing - to betray the Son of Man in the garden), but he did not repent before causing the harm, and fell into despair afterward. A marked contrast with Peter, who repented and kept the faith. Even so, both fulfilled Jesus’ prophecy about them - one negative, one positive. I see a similarity to Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, who were confronted by Peter and given the opportunity to repent, but persisted in their lie unto death.

Some non-Catholics claim that Judas was a “false convert” and possibly the same with Ananias and Sapphira. If the truth of our conversion cannot be known until our death then, against scripture, Christ has indeed left us orphans, unknowing in this life and with no sure hope of our salvation. The “sure hope” that we believe in is distinct from the false doctrine of OSAS, which presumes salvation and puts God to the test.
 
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