Loss of Rewards

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There is something powerful in nothing.Do we not have life only thru death? Can’t get more nothing than being dead. Now in death who do you trust to resuscitate to newness of life. And if He begins life anew does He not also enable to overcome a return to the dead man. So goes the argument.
 
Man cannot bring himself to newness of life. He cannot rise from the dead, or find himself after being lost, or cure his sickness, or wake from his slumber. God must stir and awaken him. And yet…man can still resist that movement. And once arisen from the dead, or awakened, or cured, or found, etc, God expects something from man, not nothing. For example:

"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:14-15
 
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The point is that man can resist, and remain fallen, or fall again on his own later. Our choice, even if only the ability to say “no”, remains always.
 
fhansen said:
It’s still a subjective observation-and not all will be saved based on that, while thinking they are. Either way faith is meant to blossom into more than mere intellectual assent or trust-it’s the beginning of salvation, the root and foundation of justification before God. It involves the beginning of the knowledge of God, to acknowledge His existence, goodness, trustworthiness, and our absolute need for Him.
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Faith is more than the beginning of Salvation. It is the beginning, the middle, and the end of Salvation. All grace comes through faith. Be it Justification or Sanctification. The different means of Grace, the sacraments, the word, prayer, worship, fellowship, service, and even trials and tribulations are all way we grow in Grace through Faith.

And yes, whether or not I have faith can be subjective but it can also be tested. Paul tell us "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test? 2 Corth 13:5 NIV

Why would he tell us to test ourselves if it is impossible to know the answer?
 
fhansen said:
The point is that man can resist, and remain fallen, or fall again on his own later. Our choice, even if only the ability to say “no”, remains always.
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Yes, the other side does not deny this, but again rests upon objective promises from God to overcome this
 
lanman87 said:
Why would he tell us to test ourselves if it is impossible to know the answer?
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It’s a necessary and continuous test isn’t it? We must make our calling and election sure and we won’t know the answer absolutely until the Just Judge gives us His verdict. And His verdict will be based on more than faith, alone, but on what we did with it as we cooperated with Him throughout our lives-or failed to. The ultimate purpose of faith:

“…if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing.” 1 Cor 13

“Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing.” Augustine

“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.” John of the Cross as quoted in the Catechism

The law, as defined by the Greatest Commandments-man’s obligation to be actually righteous IOW-is still in effect. Faith makes the fulfillment of it possible now as it places us into communion with the only One who can achieve that in us. That’s to be “under grace”.
 
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mcq72 said:
Yes, the other side does not deny this, but again rests upon objective promises from God to overcome this
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Well, some from the “other side” do reject this. And while God certainly can and purposes to overcome it in us He won’t and doesn’t overrule our decision to say “no”. That’s where the possibility of hell as a destination comes into play.
 
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lanman87 said:
Why would he tell us to test ourselves if it is impossible to know the answer?
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He said more than that.

This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
1 Corinthians 4:1‭-‬5 RSV-CI

 
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fhansen said:
We must make our calling and election sure and we won’t know the answer absolutely until the Just Judge gives us His verdict.
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How can we make our calling and election sure if we can’t be sure? Your statement is a paradox.
fhansen said:
The law, as defined by the Greatest Commandments-man’s obligation to be actually righteous IOW-is still in effect.
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The goal of Christian living is to “Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness”. That is the goal of anyone who truly has faith in Christ. We do this by a supernatural love of God and others, that we can’t generate by our own will but only comes by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us.

However, it is not our own personal righteousness that saves us, it is the righteousness of God that we receive by faith.

If it is our personal righteousness and works then we are not saved by grace through faith. We are saved by our efforts to attain righteousness and we are saved based on how close we come in our efforts. That is backwards to the message of the Gospel. All of salvation is a gift of God, be it justification, sanctification, glorification. If we have to work for it then it is no longer a gift.

Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5

Our righteousness is not dependent on work but on faith. It is our faith by which we are counted as righteous. I don’t see how anyone could read Romans 4:4-5 (and a ton of other verses) and think our work, our cooperation (which is a form of work), is what counts us a righteous before God.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Which is obedience,.not mere belief. Romans speaks of the obedience which is faith
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Agreed. I see faith as more than mere belief. Faith is trust, faith is making Jesus the King of your life. That kind of faith is obedient.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Our works complete, and not just give evidence of faith.
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But it is our faith that counts us as righteous, not our works. Our works grow our faith, show our faith, cause others to give glory to God and do a bunch of other things in how they “complete our faith”. But our works are not how we are “counted as righteous”.
 
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone

According to James (and Paul) Abraham was counted as righteous because of his belief. Abraham gave evidence (justified) by his works and not by his faith alone.

The word Justified has dual meanings. It can either be declared just or give evidence of being just. When a court justifies someone they are declaring them not guilty. When a lawyer justifies someone they are presenting evidence that the person is not guilty. We can see that James is using it as evidentiary for several reason. One is that earlier he says “I’ll show you my faith by my works”. Two is that just before verse 23 he says that Abraham was counted righteous because he believed. If verse 24 means “declared just (or counted as righteous)” then James contradicted himself in verses 23 and 24. I don’t think James was contradicting himself. Abraham was either counted as righteous because he believed or because of his works. If you add that to what Paul says is Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians it is clear that the Apostolic teaching was that we are Justified (declared just) apart from works but our faith is counted to us as righteousness, which “This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” Romans 3:22

The entire paragraph in James 2 about showing (or giving evidence) of a living faith by our works. We are like James. We show our faith by our works.
 
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