INFINITELY Merciful could possibly refer to both the “quantity and quality” and also to the “longevity”, couldn’t it?Forgiveness is a two-way street. God will forgive anything, but you have to accept that forgiveness too.
Gotta love “what ifs”. While it is the perhaps only approach to forming a course of action, it is the worst way to sort out reality. People who live there lives thinking “what if” tend to have anxieties such as hypochondriasis and can never be satisfied because, what if.Anyone who can be happy in heaven knowing they have loved ones who are suffering for eternity are what we humans call sociopaths.
Who used a ‘what if’?"Gotta love “what ifs”. While it is the perhaps only approach to forming a course of action, it is the worst way to sort out reality. People who live there lives thinking “what if” tend to have anxieties such as hypochondriasis and can never be satisfied because, what if.
So what is the reality?
God is about love.
Heaven is about love.
If one is not in heaven, one has no love.
One’s “loved ones” were never one’s loved ones.
It was an illusion.
You indicated you were an atheist. My bad, I assumed atheists do not believe in heaven, that it came with not believing in God.Who used a ‘what if’?" . . .
Number 1. Believing in an after-life does not necessarily require a belief in a god.You indicated you were an atheist. My bad, I assumed atheists do not believe in heaven, that it came with not believing in God.
So what constitutes an atheist’s paradise?
I’m not sure what you mean by the first half, do you mean God can forgive people after they die? I’d have thought that at that point you’ve either made the choice to love God or you haven’t, and that choice stays with you into eternity. I doubt the lost souls would choose to accept God’s mercy even if they were given the choice, since they’ve chosen to prefer darkness to light.INFINITELY Merciful could possibly refer to both the “quantity and quality” and also to the “longevity”, couldn’t it?
Ever thought that God just might be able to “convince without forcing”, even if we do not know exactly how that might work?
Ignorance is not making a choice.I’m not sure what you mean by the first half, do you mean God can forgive people after they die? I’d have thought that at that point you’ve either made the choice to love God or you haven’t, and that choice stays with you into eternity. I doubt the lost souls would choose to accept God’s mercy even if they were given the choice, since they’ve chosen to prefer darkness to light.
On another note, I can’t understand how even God could convince everyone to love Him without forcing them. A number will freely choose it, hopefully a large number, but there’re going to be some who don’t. For one thing, I don’t know why there’d be such a thing as devils if that were the case.
What a bizarre comment. Does this mean that people who are happy on Earth, yet have loved ones who are suffering, are also sociopaths?Anyone who can be happy in heaven knowing they have loved ones who are suffering for eternity are what we humans call sociopaths.
They actually have the ability to do something about it.What a bizarre comment. Does this mean that people who are happy on Earth, yet have loved ones who are suffering, are also sociopaths?
That obviously isn’t true in every case. A loved one who chooses a self-destructive lifestyle is something we’ve all experienced. Many times there isn’t anything one can do about it.They actually have the ability to do something about it.
Remember the parable of the sheep and the goats? Looking after other people and trying to do good is a large part of where you choose to love God, even if you didn’t know he existed. If, on the other hand, you choose to ignore the suffering of others or to be entirely focused on yourself…you can probably see where that’s going. We have everything we need to make an informed decision in our conscience.Ignorance is not making a choice.
It cannot be called a free choice if they cannot make an informed decision.
Good point there, I’m going to add that:That obviously isn’t true in every case. A loved one who chooses a self-destructive lifestyle is something we’ve all experienced. Many times there isn’t anything one can do about it.
That is true but Jesus told us to pray “Thy Will be done” - which implies that it has not, is not and will not always be fulfilled. In fact the colossal amount of evil in the world is overwhelming evidence that good and evil are not human conventions. It strongly suggests that Hell is not a fiction but a fact. The laws of nature do not explain the horrific atrocities committed by mankind. They imply that God is powerless **in this world **when confronted with diabolical evil and there is hardly any limit to the death and destruction His creatures can inflict on others. This is not surprising when we remember it is an abuse of the power He has shared with us. We have to accept the **possibility **that evil may exist forever but it would not harm anyone in heaven.Didn’t Jesus reportedly say, “With God ALL things are possible”?
Who knows, maybe God can do things that we think that God is incapable of doing!
Not if they know they are rejected and hated by their loved ones. Happiness in heaven is not based on fantasy but fact…Anyone who can be happy in heaven knowing they have loved ones who are suffering for eternity are what we humans call sociopaths.
Do you think that the suffering of their loved ones is what it is that brings joy to those on earth who are happy and that their joy will be even more complete when they realize that their suffering loved ones will be suffering forever?What a bizarre comment. Does this mean that people who are happy on Earth, yet have loved ones who are suffering, are also sociopaths?
Concerning the “parable of the sheep and the goats”, don’t you think that, most likely, ALL of us are part sheep and part goat?Remember the parable of the sheep and the goats? Looking after other people and trying to do good is a large part of where you choose to love God, even if you didn’t know he existed. If, on the other hand, you choose to ignore the suffering of others or to be entirely focused on yourself…you can probably see where that’s going. We have everything we need to make an informed decision in our conscience.
Do you think/believe that the “Power of God” and the power of evil are equal?Good point there, I’m going to add that:
- those in hell wouldn’t have anything lovable in them anyway - having rejected all good they’d only be a worsened version of their worst traits on earth. In fact, if they had the capability, they’d drag you down to suffer with them out of pure spite.
Are you saying that those in heaven should be selfish with their happiness or that their lot is that they have to be selfish with their happiness?
- wanting people to be sad in heaven because others are suffering out of their own selfishness (since in effect that’s the one main hing that leads to hell) is like saying you want evil to eternally have some power over good.
Thomas Aquinas sure seems to think so and he also seems to think that one of the “joys” of heaven is to see the suffering of those in hell.
- We don’t even know how time works after we die, it’s not necessarily true that someone in heaven could say “the suffering in hell is now going on”. (Yes I took that point from Lewis)
Tom,Do you think that the suffering of their loved ones is what it is that brings joy to those on earth who are happy and that their joy will be even more complete when they realize that their suffering loved ones will be suffering forever?
Or do you think that those with suffering loved ones on earth are looking to the “day” that the suffering of their loved ones will come to an end?
And unless I read it wrong, one of the joys of heaven, according to Thomas Aquinas, is seeing the suffering of the damned since he supposedly said, “That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more richly, a perfect sight of the punishment of the damned is granted them.”
Do you or anyone else who happens to read this think that one of the “joys” of heaven will be to gloat over the suffering of those in hell?