Mamberti takes over from Burke and Gallagher is Vatican’s new “foreign affairs minister”

[Rin]

small pockets of European countries are allowed to have Sharia Law enforced.

This is false.

Some small pockets of some cities allow Muslims who have disputes (especially marriage related) to have these resolved by Sharia, if they so wish. But nothing is being enforced, no punishment is handed out. And from what I understand, their decisions do not have full force of law, and obviously the dispute can be brought to a civil court of law if one of the parties wishes to do so. It is an alternative to the legal system, not a replacement. This form of conflict resolution within specific demographic groups actually relieves the civil courts of law, and most areas which permit it report satisfaction with the results. It is comparable to the “conflict resolution boards” often used in some countries to resolve non-criminal (and even petty criminal) cases, as a way of avoiding the courts.

It is also in many ways comparable with giving the diocesan Tribunal verdicts limited force of law. Nothing inherently wrong about it.

 

[JimmyG88]

This is false.

Some small pockets of some cities allow Muslims who have disputes (especially marriage related) to have these resolved by Sharia, if they so wish. But nothing is being enforced, no punishment is handed out. And from what I understand, their decisions do not have full force of law, and obviously the dispute can be brought to a civil court of law if one of the parties wishes to do so. It is an alternative to the legal system, not a replacement. This form of conflict resolution within specific demographic groups actually relieves the civil courts of law, and most areas which permit it report satisfaction with the results. It is comparable to the “conflict resolution boards” often used in some countries to resolve non-criminal (and even petty criminal) cases, as a way of avoiding the courts.

It is also in many ways comparable with giving the diocesan Tribunal verdicts limited force of law. Nothing inherently wrong about it.

In the same way Jewish marital disputes are resolved. Quite civilised I think

 

[Budeux]

Cardinal Burke was not elected to lead the Church founded by Jesus Christ…and…through the guidance of the Holy Spirit…so who is he to question the Pope who has the authority of Jesus Christ…

Greetings…I agree totally with your post! Cardinal Burke media blitz is over! He needs to get to a monastery and repent his sins against the Church!

 

[JimmyG88]

Greetings…I agree totally with your post! Cardinal Burke media blitz is over! He needs to get to a monastery and repent his sins against the Church!

He should Really

 

[SAVINGRACE]

'The highest-ranking American at the Vatican was demoted this weekend, after weeks of vocally criticizing Pope Francis’ liberal leadership of the Catholic Church.

In an unprecedented move for the Vatican, Cardinal Raymond Burke was taken off the church’s highest court to become the chaplain of the Knights of Malta, a Vatican charity group, after vocally opposing the church’s recent progressive moves. His new position holds almost no responsibilities.’

msnbc.com/msnbc/pope-francis-demotes-anti-gay-bishop?adbid=772360439526877&adbpl=fb&adbpr=273864989376427&cid=sm_m_main_1_20141110_35322207

 

[Kindness]

Well if we are Catholic we should trust what the Pope does.

I admire what Cardinal Burke says but I wasn’t too impressed seeing him wear the “cappa magna” which is a traditional robe for a Cardinal with an immensely long train (over 10 feet long). Many traditionalists may love it. I consider myself a straightforward Catholic who believes all the church teaches but in the modern world swanning around in these kind of vestments sends an extremely negative message to me as an Orthodox Catholic! I just cannot imagine Jesus wearing this kind of getup. I think this displays some of Cardinal Burke’s lack of understanding of how to evangelize because this sends a very negative and triumphalist message of how he sees himself and the church.

I don’t think he was demoted for his views on homosexuality because Cardinals also loyal to church teaching (such as Pell and Gerhard Mueller) have been placed in positions of influence.

It appears Cardinal Burke lacks humility and/or realism. It seems like his new position will give him plenty of time and freedom to travel and express his opinions to all and sundry so it may well give him more influence rather than less.

 

[John_Martin]

I find that at my place of work, anyone who overtly speaks out to customers or other employees in a spirit contrary to the leadership of the head of the company, or contrary to other mangers, with the intention of either gaining support for their own agenda or gaining criticism of the superior’s agenda, does indeed get fired.

St. Paul did not go to the Gentile Christians discounting Peter’s two-facedness, nor did he go to the other apostles in separate gatherings, but he went face to face, toe to toe, with Peter. We, “the public”, the “masses”, only know about it after the fact, after the decision in Jerusalem.

Cardinal Burke has vocalized dissent to some degree about the Pope in a public way, to sway Catholic popular opinion and, with that, to erode trust in Francis and by force of that popular sentiment to control Francis.

Burke has the ability to argue directly with Francis, out of the public eye, but in public be 100% with Francis in loyalty to the Holy See.

 

[Brendan]

The MSM is having a field day with this, and it just shows their lack of understanding of the Church.

Cardinal Burke was in that position substantially longer than any recent predecessor.
He was in that position for 6 years, all of his processors in the last 50 years were in the role for no more that 5.

And as far as love for homosexuals, or humility, he is among the best of men in that regard.

And he did not speak out against the Pope in ANYTHING. I would challendge anyone to list quotes where he opposed the Pope in any matter.

In fact, if anyone considers this to be in regards to +Burkes statements on the theology of the Church, it carries an implication that Pope Francis is vengeful and a liar.

Pope Francis himself said that he wanted free and open dialogue during the Synod, did he lie? Is he going against his own statements by ‘taking it out’ on +Burke

 

[Columba_Tom]

This is not “demotion”, but rather giving him a role to which he is well suited.
The Order of Malta is Sovereign in its own right. It is not “a Vatican charity group”, but a self-propelled, self-funding, ancient Order of the Church. Through its agency, Malteser International, it gives disaster relief and undertakes hospitaller and religious works. It has observer status at the UN, and diplomatic relations all over the world. Because it is largely self-funding, it is less well known than the other major international agencies. Cardinal Burke will have a heavy work-load, and responsibilities to keep him contentedly engaged till retirement. He will need to be a true Prince of the Church to carry this.

 

[glendab]

Hello Kindness.

Well if we are Catholic we should trust what the Pope does.

I admire what Cardinal Burke says but I wasn’t too impressed seeing him wear the “cappa magna” which is a traditional robe for a Cardinal with an immensely long train (over 10 feet long). Many traditionalists may love it. I consider myself a straightforward Catholic who believes all the church teaches but in the modern world swanning around in these kind of vestments sends an extremely negative message to me as an Orthodox Catholic! I just cannot imagine Jesus wearing this kind of getup. I think this displays some of Cardinal Burke’s lack of understanding of how to evangelize because this sends a very negative and triumphalist message of how he sees himself and the church.

I don’t think he was demoted for his views on homosexuality because Cardinals also loyal to church teaching (such as Pell and Gerhard Mueller) have been placed in positions of influence.

It appears Cardinal Burke lacks humility and/or realism. It seems like his new position will give him plenty of time and freedom to travel and express his opinions to all and sundry so it may well give him more influence rather than less.

Burke is a very nice man and a holy Priest of God. I’m wondering why everyone needs to politicize everything that goes on. I mean does everything have to be viewed as either liberal, progressive, modernist, traditionalist, conservative, republican, capitalist, blah, blah, blah. Why do people feel so much better about a person or a situation if they can categorize the actions of others as falling into any of the above categories or beyond? And why is it that folks fail to trust that the Holy Spirit is actually moving these men in all their actions? It is actually the Holy Spirit who is guiding the Church and it may not appear that way to some, but that isn’t because the Holy Spirit has withdrawn. No, the failure to see the Spirit in the actions and to attribute the actions to political motives is the failure of those who need to categorize all Church actions in her leaders as bearing the marks of politics.

No, I’d say it is up to us to see the Spirit in the actions and ask ourselves where is It leading all of us and what is it that Jesus is asking of all of us? The Truth is that the Holy Spirit resides in the Church and hasn’t left us orphans. He guides everything. There really isn’t any politic involved at all for the Holy Spirit isn’t a political party member. Keep this in mind.

I’m also wondering why what a particular Cardinal chooses to wear is so important to you. The crack about Jesus not donning the same getup is rude and demeaning. Try to show some respect for the Office of Cardinal even if you don’t like the person in the Office. It is a Holy Office.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Columba.

This is not “demotion”, but rather giving him a role to which he is well suited.
The Order of Malta is Sovereign in its own right. It is not “a Vatican charity group”, but a self-propelled, self-funding, ancient Order of the Church. Through its agency, Malteser International, it gives disaster relief and undertakes hospitaller and religious works. It has observer status at the UN, and diplomatic relations all over the world. Because it is largely self-funding, it is less well known than the other major international agencies. Cardinal Burke will have a heavy work-load, and responsibilities to keep him contentedly engaged till retirement. He will need to be a true Prince of the Church to carry this.

Very well said. And all true. Thank you.

Glenda

 

[Sirach2]

The MSM is having a field day with this, and it just shows their lack of understanding of the Church.

Not only MSM - the media is alive and well.

And he did not speak out against the Pope in ANYTHING. I would challenge anyone to list quotes where he opposed the Pope in any matter.

Just for starters, but google has several pages, mostly media recaps. Faithful Catholics know better than to become ruffled, take sides, and perpetuate these meaningless arguments, trusting that the Holy Spirit will continue to guide us into truth, as Jesus promised. John 16:13.

Burke, who until Saturday was the highest-ranking American in the Vatican, gave a series of recent interviews criticizing the pope and had emerged as the face of conservative opposition to Francis’ reform agenda.

In an interview with a Spanish magazine last month, Burke, known for his unbending interpretation of doctrine, compared the Catholic Church under Francis to “a ship without a rudder”.

Burke has publicly clashed with the pope several times since the Argentine pontiff’s election in 2013 and Vatican sources have said the pope saw Burke’s outspokenness as part of the so-called “culture wars” among Catholics that he wants to avoid.
blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2014/11/10/pope-francis-demotes-outspoken-american-conservative-cardinal-burke/

 

[glendab]

How about the Cardinal’s own words from an interview with Raymond Arroyo. Watch then try to judge the man in a negative way. He is speaking out of a store of love in his heart, not from a political point of view. I could only hope to have the faithfulness and sincerity of this man. It is obvious he is a sheperd who would lay down his life for his sheep. He loves the flock. I wish I could have him for my Pastor.

youtube.com/watch?v=Tf7AdXjdT1k

Glenda

 

[Scottgun]

Old old story. Cdl. Burke himself has not indicated that he thinks he is being punished or squeezed out in some ecclesiastical version of the Delphi Technique.

Breathe into a paper bag people.

 

[Sirach2]

How about the Cardinal’s own words from an interview with Raymond Arroyo. Watch then try to judge the man in a negative way. He is speaking out of a store of love in his heart, not from a political point of view. I could only hope to have the faithfulness and sincerity of this man. It is obvious he is a sheperd who would lay down his life for his sheep. He loves the flock. I wish I could have him for my Pastor.

youtube.com/watch?v=Tf7AdXjdT1k

Glenda

Ah yes, Raymond Arroyo. A heavily biased reporter … very leading in his questions, unwilling to hide his disdain by vocal tone or facial expressions. I won’t give him my time of day.

 

[Sirach2]

Old old story. Cdl. Burke himself has not indicated that he thinks he is being punished or squeezed out in some ecclesiastical version of the Delphi Technique.

Breathe into a paper bag people.

 

[Brendan]

for sarters, but google has several pages, mostly media recaps. Faithful Catholics know better than to become ruffled, take sides, and perpetuate these meaningless arguments, trusting that the Holy Spirit will continue to guide us into truth, as Jesus promised. John 16:13.

As I said, the media has no clue. I’ve googled his actual statements, and the very few the Pope has made ( he was deliberately silent in the Synod)

What I am wondering is what ACTUAL statements from +Burke are in opposition to ACTUAL statements from the Pope?

 

[Sirach2]

As I said, the media has no clue. I’ve googled his actual statements, and the very few the Pope has made ( he [the pope, not Burke] was deliberately silent in the Synod)

So what ACTUAL statements from +Burke are in opposition to ACTUAL statements from the Pope?

Are you changing course, Brendan?
I doubt anyone is speaking about Burke rebutting the pope’s ACTUAL statements, which you admit were deliberately silent. No, what people are objecting to is Burke’s ACTUAL public censure of the pope himself to the media, and the fact that the pope has not come out with a statement.

 

[Seamus_L]

I suspect and pray that we’ll be hearing alot more from Cardinal Burke.

 

[Dawnia]

Are you changing course, Brendan?
I doubt anyone is speaking about Burke rebutting the pope’s ACTUAL statements, which you admit were deliberately silent. No, what people are objecting to is Burke’s ACTUAL public censure of the pope himself to the media, and the fact that the pope has not come out with a statement.

Please sight direct quotes where Burke criticizes Pope Francis.