Straw man.
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jeannetherese
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Are laws being passed where you live, RolandThompsonGunner?
Out here, we hear of mandates and proclamations by governors-nothing about laws.
It seems, to some extent, that the covid-19 situation has become a pretext for moving beyond the notion of law. Perhaps this is only a regional issue?
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27lw
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I’m curious why your boss seems to have such a different understanding of the spread of covid than the Cleveland Clinic, etc.
Who is right? You say your boss is a microbiologist, but is she an epidemiologist? Is it possible she’s mistaken, or misinformed in some way?
Who is right? You say your boss is a microbiologist, but is she an epidemiologist? Is it possible she’s mistaken, or misinformed in some way?
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I-47
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Just wear it for your own and your nearest safety. Be safe there.
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Peeps
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She is NOT an epidemiologist, but she works with the epidemiologists in our hospital system.
I’m not sure what you’re reading or hearing from The Cleveland Clinic. Here is a link to what I read: Coronavirus Testing, Treatment and Visitor Info | Cleveland Clinic
One sentence in The Cleveland Clinic’s statement that stands out is: * A cloth mask can help individuals cover a cough or sneeze; reducing the spread of germs.* A cloth mask will not prevent you from breathing in respiratory droplets which carry a virus, like COVID-19."
I don’t think this contradicts what I and my supervisor are thinking. It actually doesn’t say anything about herd immunity, which makes sense–this is from the information that The Cleveland Clinic has on its website and is intended for potential patients who probably don’t want to read about “herd immunity” while they are seeking medical help!
If you have access to other articles, perhaps more scholarly articles, from The Cleveland Clinic, can you please provide some links? Thanks!
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27lw
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Not really scholarly…
health.clevelandclinic.org
health.clevelandclinic.org
newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org
Here’s How Wearing a Cloth Mask Helps Fight the Spread of Coronavirus
While cloth face masks may not be as heavy duty as medical-grade masks, they still play a role in preventing the spread of the coronavirus.
health.clevelandclinic.org
5 Myths About Coronavirus and Face Masks, Debunked
By wearing a homemade cloth face mask, you can help protect others in your family and community. A doctor sets the record straight on some common misconceptions about face masks.
health.clevelandclinic.org
COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer? - Mayo Clinic News Network
Can face masks help prevent the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the disease. So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At...
newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org
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RolandThompsonGunner
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We have a friend who is an infectious disease doctor. This whole thing has her working around the clock, but one of the things she’s mentioned that’s incredibly frustrating is people pointing out that masks aren’t 100% effective when no one claims they are.
The claim is that they help reduce spread, not that they are a silver bullet.
The claim is that they help reduce spread, not that they are a silver bullet.
Yet look at what we see.
People are making pariahs out of others for not wearing a mask…as though that single act is going to be a saving act for us all.
As though not wearing a mask is akin to murder.
It isn’t.
It never has been.
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pnewton
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I would say it is more akin to smoking, if you are looking for an analogy.
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RolandThompsonGunner
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No one is advocating that people who refuse to wear masks go to prison for decades. It’s not murder. But if someone refuses to do something so small, so simple, and so painless to help reduce the spread of a pandemic, then some social shaming is entirely appropriate.
It’s like if we were all trying to contain a conflagration and some people refuse to fill a bucket with water because they’re too busy playing a game on their phone. Is that one bucket going to make or break things? Probably not. In the aggregate, is it going to make containing the fire harder? Yeah, and the fact that they’re not making this incredibly small sacrifice should be a cause for shame.
Even if masks are 10% effective: if you won’t do that much when we’re in the midst of something that has killed over 100k of your countrymen, then yeah, you deserve the social opprobrium.
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Perhaps you missed that rather long straw man posted yesterday in which it was explained how my not wearing a mask makes me responsible for killing off some high risk individuals.
They even quote…
“You killed…it’s your fault.”
Given the likes I see on it, I see two things.
1- not many people know a logical fallacy when they see one.
2- these people believe not wearing a mask is akin to murder.
Well just what exactly is this percentage?
I am unconvinced it is effective beyond any standard precautions.
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27lw
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Quoted in the article (above) about Germany it said 40%.
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RolandThompsonGunner
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I think the point is that it’s somewhere north of zero.
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RolandThompsonGunner
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It’s hyperbole, but the basic argument is correct. If you refuse to wear a mask, what you’re saying is “I’m okay with increasing the likelihood, albeit maybe slightly, that someone else gets sick and dies because I don’t want a piece of cloth over my face while I’m in a store. That’s an acceptable trade off for me.”
It’s pretty callous.
So is it any higher then simply using standard precautions?
It’s a straw man.
You’ll have to post the link.
The articles I have seen you post do not mention 40%.
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