Mandatory mask poll

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Clearly we’re not going to convince each other here, but I’m just curious: is it your position that masks are wholly ineffective, or are you just objecting to the idea that they’re some kind of perfect silver bullet?
 
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RolandThompsonGunner said:
: is it your position that masks are wholly ineffective, or are you just objecting to the idea that they’re some kind of perfect silver bullet?
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Most masks are wholly ineffective.

I object to the state mandated masks, particularly when the masks are not defined such that it could be effective.

I also find it dangerous that the media has made it so socially acceptable and popular to use ineffective measures.

This spreads the virus faster as people think they have done enough and are not at all protected.
 
It’s weird that people don’t find it odd that Hong Kong has like 7 deaths. That alone should be a red flag that things aren’t as they appear.
 
PHXsunsAZ said:
It’s weird that people don’t find it odd that Hong Kong has like 7 deaths. That alone should be a red flag that things aren’t as they appear.
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It isn’t odd; it’s exactly what we should expect.
Ka-ki, a lawmaker and doctor in Hong Kong, said, “The most important thing is that Hong Kong people have deep memories of the SARS outbreak. Every citizen did their part, including wearing masks and washing their hands and taking necessary precautions, such as avoiding crowded places and gatherings.”
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Eventually the government of Hong Kong implemented tighter border controls and ordered civil servants to telework, which led other companies to do the same, Beech reports. Hong Kong also closed schools in January through at least the end of April.
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https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/03/19/asian-countries

Hong Kong implemented social distancing, personal hygiene, masks, and widespread testing. So they had fewer deaths. The U.S. screwed all of that up, so we have more deaths. There’s nothing odd about the different results at all.
 
Asymptomatic refers to recognizable symptoms of infection like fever, coughing, stuffy nose, diarrhea etc. It does not mean absence of damage.

Here are a couple of references to studies. About half of the studied patients showed lung damage.

axisimagingnews.com

CT Scans Show Lung Injury in Asymptomatic Carriers of COVID-19

New analysis shows that up to 45% of SARS-CoV-2 infections may be asymptomatic. These “silent” carriers may exacerbate efforts to stop the spread of the disease.
axisimagingnews.com axisimagingnews.com

 
Bernoulli said:
even asymptomatic cases often have organ damage
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vz71 said:
Perhaps you could link the statistics to back this.
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And from the article you responded with…

“Even if someone is infected by the novel coronavirus and remains asymptomatic — free of coughing, fever, fatigue and other common signs of infection, that doesn’t mean the coronavirus isn’t taking a toll. The virus can still be causing mild — although likely reversible — harm to their lungs.”

Key word there being “could”
As in they don’t know. They have to study it further.
And there isn’t a statistic in sight to support using the word “often” or for that matter that asymptomatic means it is still causing harm at all.

The article does not support your statement.
Try again.
 
Bernoulli said:
Here are a couple of references to studies.
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Asto the other…
"The authors also conclude that the absence of symptoms may not imply an absence of harm. CT scans conducted on 54% of 76 asymptomatic individuals on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, appear to show significant subclinical lung abnormalities, raising the possibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection impacting lung function that might not be immediately apparent. "

There is a reason the specify “possibility”
It is because they are doing preliminary analysis and the end may not show at all what they think at the beginning.

How many were truly asymptomatic?
How many had lung problems beforehand?
How many were smokers?

All have not been accounted for yet…so they say it is possible. It is too early to make the positive claim you have made.
 
In my opinion that is absolutely absurd to believe that one of the most dense populations in the world has the lowest death rate because of “wearing masks and washing hands”. Sorry, I’m not buying it. This defies logic.
 
PHXsunsAZ said:
In my opinion that is absolutely absurd to believe that one of the most dense populations in the world has the lowest death rate because of “wearing masks and washing hands”. Sorry, I’m not buying it. This defies logic.
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You’re right. The truth is, they use magic.

:roll_eyes:
 
PHXsunsAZ said:
In my opinion that is absolutely absurd to believe that one of the most dense populations in the world has the lowest death rate because of “wearing masks and washing hands”. Sorry, I’m not buying it. This defies logic.
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There are a number of other factors that make the difference.

Americans can’t expect there not to be consequences for their unhealthy lifestyle.
 
You really should give these articles a good read before posting them
They do not support your position.
 
27lw said:
Not really scholarly…
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OK, I still don’t understand the connection between this and my comments to the effect that the only thing that will make our world, or at least our country, safe again is (1) a vaccine that most of us can tolerate and/or (2) herd immunity, which requires a large number of people to contract the virus and recover from it, which theoretically anyway, makes them immune (that is still a question at this point when it comes to COVID-19, because apparently some people who have recovered from the virus have been re-infected by it, which worries me because it sounds like having the virus (and recovering) does not necessarily confer immunity on a person.

The masks are a temporary fix, and many people will not find them intrusive at all. And then you have people like me, who simply can’t tolerate them over the nose. Mouth,yes. Nose–panic. As far as I’m concerned the sooner we can get that vaccine (or herd immunity established) the better!

I’m not disagreeing with you about the effectiveness of masks, and I don’t have any disagreements with the articles that you have posted.

Do you disagree with ME about the need for either a vaccine and/or the establishment of herd immunity?

I have not yet seen links to any articles from The Cleveland Clinic about herd immunity and how it gets established. I’m sure they’re there, but I’m guessing that these are the kinds of articles we read in our various laboratory medicine journals which most people would not be reading unless they are lab techs or other medical professionals interested in immunity issues. But if you have come across these articles, please post the links! It’s good to know.
 
Mythicalbio said:
I judge anyone I see not wearing one as too broke to have one, or as someone who hasn’t seen the news in the last 8 months, otherwise all I would see is degenerate behavior.
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!Wow! You overtly state that you Judge others who don’t wear masks and that you have to pretend to yourself that they are either too poor or ignorant to know any better otherwise you would label their behavior as degenerate…
Did you know that some people truely cannot tolerate wearing a mask for medical reasons (physical and/or psychological)?
So, how many of the people (your “neighbors”) that you are Judging (instead of Loving) are not poor, not ignorant, or not exhibiting degenerate behavior but, are just actually trying to survive despite their medical condition?
I have generalized anxiety with panick attacks. To try to be able to tolerate wearing a mask, I have had to have my medications’ dosages increased. Even with the extra meds and prayer, it is a constant battle to overcome my body’s physiolgical “fight or flight” response to wearing a mask most of the time.
Please pray for those people you see not wearing a mask. Whatever the reason may be, they are all children of God like you. I pray for you, that you may overcome the temptation to listen to the evil one who is misleading you to think it is okay to act like you are a god by judging others as wrong or inferior because of their actions.
May the Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you!
 
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