Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

[bernadettefaith]

If your representation of the situation is accurate, I am so confused! We all get ticked off and vent. Sometimes even loudly. I wouldn’t consider that anger issues. I consider that human.

In anger I have said some unkind things about everyone my husband is related to and everyone he knows. I have also admitted that I was angry, could have handled things better, and apologized. He’s done the same. And don’t get me started on us venting and hating on family we’ve just left who acted like jerks. We’ve spent entire car trips taking turns venting to each other in that way. It’s never been a dealbreaker for us or allowed to cause trouble in the marriage. And I don’t think it would cause such trouble in most marriages.

Maybe I am lacking some sensitivity, but I can’t imagine a grown man being scared and upset for months/years over his wife venting and saying some unkind things about his family unless she was doing it at the top of her voice while kicking the dog or throwing glass vases at his head.

I really do, assuming you’ve been totally honest about your part, think this “anger issues” and fear claim have a lot more to do with him looking for an excuse to get his do over and less to do with actual anger and fear.

I suppose that to his credit, he thought that I was going to “go crazy” at his parents and ruin holidays. He says that it gave him panic attacks but he would go to the other room so that nobody could see he was upset. I didn’t intend on “going crazy” to his parents and was really just venting my anger with them before we saw them with the intent of getting it out of my system. I wasn’t throwing things but I guess he thought I was really losing it.

As far as I’m aware, that’s the worst of my anger. When she asked about the worst of it, that’s what he described. She said that she wished she could be a fly on the wall…but then again if it bothered him then it was too much.

I didn’t realize that it bothered him to that extent. Regardless, I’m not doing this anymore and haven’t for at least the last year. And a year ago I was pregnant and totally hormonal. I get that my venting bothers him so I’m not doing it anymore.

He was upset that I held a grudge…but the grudge was based on a lie. I won’t go into the whole long story but I’m over it now. …I thought he was too.

 

[MJJean]

Well, did the counselor say anything about this being a past issue and that he needs to let it go since you haven’t behaved this way in over a year? Did she mention that the anger you expressed was based on his lie and that he is not totally innocent in this situation?

 

[bernadettefaith]

Not really. She says that they need to work on forgiveness but I don’t know if that’s what she really is doing or not. He acknowledged that he was wrong as well.

 

[MJJean]

Not really. She says that they need to work on forgiveness but I don’t know if that’s what she really is doing or not. He acknowledged that he was wrong as well.

Some people can be lead to the desired conclusion. Some have to be bluntly told “look, man, you’re overreacting and need to let it go!”

Anyways, go with your gut. If you think the counselor is biased because of her own past and is not the type of plain speaker you need then it is worth looking into a new therapist. You said you both liked her because she was laid back. There is such a thing as too laid back. Some people can be laid back and very effective. Some cannot. I, too, like laid back people. But I would draw the line when the laid back person is inserting her own personal experiences and isn’t actually getting anywhere but seems to be going in circles.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Some people can be lead to the desired conclusion. Some have to be bluntly told “look, man, you’re overreacting and need to let it go!”

Anyways, go with your gut. If you think the counselor is biased because of her own past and is not the type of plain speaker you need then it is worth looking into a new therapist. You said you both liked her because she was laid back. There is such a thing as too laid back. Some people can be laid back and very effective. Some cannot. I, too, like laid back people. But I would draw the line when the laid back person is inserting her own personal experiences and isn’t actually getting anywhere but seems to be going in circles.

Yeah it’s like she doesn’t want to be judgmental or too pushy about staying married. I’m not sure how to describe it. He probably would respond better to someone who lead us in some kind of direction.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Well…counseling went pretty well tonight IMO. I She was wondering if anything else was bothering him to make him that angry with me. She was impressed when I told her that he made me breakfast Saturday morning and was talking about the future together (buying a car together next year). She also said she has some exercises for us to work on next time. So I’m feeling a tiny bit more hopeful. She only mentioned her ex once tonight and it was to tell me that his relative died and now he’s calling her Not sure why that came up…but at least she wasn’t comparing us.

 

[MJJean]

Well…counseling went pretty well tonight IMO. I She was wondering if anything else was bothering him to make him that angry with me. She was impressed when I told her that he made me breakfast Saturday morning and was talking about the future together (buying a car together next year). She also said she has some exercises for us to work on next time. So I’m feeling a tiny bit more hopeful. She only mentioned her ex once tonight and it was to tell me that his relative died and now he’s calling her Not sure why that came up…but at least she wasn’t comparing us.

Exercises can be good and I’m happy that she will have some for you two to do. It might seem silly and some of them are, but laughing together at the silly is a good thing and so is doing them anyways.

I am also impressed that your DH made you breakfast and is talking about a future. Awesome!

You could always tell her that you are uncomfortable with mention of her personal life and even though you recognize her mentions of her ex as an attempt to be open and friendly, you’d rather she not bring it up.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Exercises can be good and I’m happy that she will have some for you two to do. It might seem silly and some of them are, but laughing together at the silly is a good thing and so is doing them anyways.

I am also impressed that your DH made you breakfast and is talking about a future. Awesome!

You could always tell her that you are uncomfortable with mention of her personal life and even though you recognize her mentions of her ex as an attempt to be open and friendly, you’d rather she not bring it up.

Yeah I think I will bring that up. I should have tonight but things were actually going well with her today.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Not sure what to think or do now. Dh has been applying for a new job. If he gets this job, he will have a take home car for work like he has now - but he will not get the vehicle until he is finished with the academy (11 weeks of training). So he will need something reliable to drive every weekend for the 3 hour drive. Our current vehicle is decent (an '09 with 65K miles) and it would be fine for him to drive back and forth. The trouble is that I will need something reliable as well back home with the kids. Before I knew about the marriage issues, we had seriously considered purchasing a van for the family.

The problem is, we share one car. In order to obtain a second vehicle, we would have to finance it. I am not crazy about debt and the other car is paid off as our only debt is our small mortgage.I would not have a problem with taking out a loan for a vehicle if I knew he were staying in the marriage. We could absolutely afford one car payment but that depends on whether we are staying married or not. I don’t really want to purchase a vehicle that has major issues and requires a ton of money in repairs. However, if he decides to leave then I doubt either of us could afford a car payment as we would both experience a drop in income. If he wants to leave, then we would need to sell our vehicle and split the money to purchase two cheap vehicles. If he wants to stay, then I believe that purchasing a nice vehicle together is a good option.

So I’m just not sure about what to do. He’s very insistent that we need to purchase a vehicle and it needs to be a newer model, not a “junk” car. Should I assume that if he wants to purchase a vehicle together that he wants to stay? Or should I remind him that if he seriously wants to consider divorce that he needs to cut back on spending and go with a vehicle that is not so reliable? If he wants to leave then why purchase a vehicle together and finance it in both of our names?

I’m glad that he’s including me in future plans…but I also fear that he’s ignorant to the effect of divorce on our budget. He certainly couldn’t afford to keep up on a car payment if he loses a significant amount of his check due to child support. He also wouldn’t really need a van if his kids are no longer living with him full time. I don’t believe that I could make enough money to pay a car payment in that situation either. So what should I make of all this?

 

[Serap]

Not sure what to think or do now. Dh has been applying for a new job. If he gets this job, he will have a take home car for work like he has now - but he will not get the vehicle until he is finished with the academy (11 weeks of training). So he will need something reliable to drive every weekend for the 3 hour drive. Our current vehicle is decent (an '09 with 65K miles) and it would be fine for him to drive back and forth. The trouble is that I will need something reliable as well back home with the kids. Before I knew about the marriage issues, we had seriously considered purchasing a van for the family.

The problem is, we share one car. In order to obtain a second vehicle, we would have to finance it. I am not crazy about debt and the other car is paid off as our only debt is our small mortgage.I would not have a problem with taking out a loan for a vehicle if I knew he were staying in the marriage. We could absolutely afford one car payment but that depends on whether we are staying married or not. I don’t really want to purchase a vehicle that has major issues and requires a ton of money in repairs. However, if he decides to leave then I doubt either of us could afford a car payment as we would both experience a drop in income. If he wants to leave, then we would need to sell our vehicle and split the money to purchase two cheap vehicles. If he wants to stay, then I believe that purchasing a nice vehicle together is a good option.

So I’m just not sure about what to do. He’s very insistent that we need to purchase a vehicle and it needs to be a newer model, not a “junk” car. Should I assume that if he wants to purchase a vehicle together that he wants to stay? Or should I remind him that if he seriously wants to consider divorce that he needs to cut back on spending and go with a vehicle that is not so reliable? If he wants to leave then why purchase a vehicle together and finance it in both of our names?

I’m glad that he’s including me in future plans…but I also fear that he’s ignorant to the effect of divorce on our budget. He certainly couldn’t afford to keep up on a car payment if he loses a significant amount of his check due to child support. He also wouldn’t really need a van if his kids are no longer living with him full time. I don’t believe that I could make enough money to pay a car payment in that situation either. So what should I make of all this?

Don’t mention the “D” word. Just go with it and purchase the vehicle. Live in the moment and enjoy that he is thinking long-term. This is an absolutely good sign…don’t rain on his parade of taking good care of you and the kids

 

[bernadettefaith]

I hope so. After all, why would a newly divorced guy want to be driving a minivan? I’d hope that he would consider that you don’t purchase anything big together if you’re considering divorce.

 

[Serap]

I hope so. After all, why would a newly divorced guy want to be driving a minivan? I’d hope that he would consider that you don’t purchase anything big together if you’re considering divorce.

You are a tough cookie and good for you for discerning what is best for the situation before acting…this shows a lot of wisdom.

 

[Xantippe]

“So I’m just not sure about what to do. He’s very insistent that we need to purchase a vehicle and it needs to be a newer model, not a “junk” car. Should I assume that if he wants to purchase a vehicle together that he wants to stay?”

No. My aunt’s husband bought a new Suburban without asking her right before he left…without the Suburban. She’s still driving it nearly 15 years later. The bad decision-making of a guy in midlife crisis can be a pretty global phenomenon.

“Or should I remind him that if he seriously wants to consider divorce that he needs to cut back on spending and go with a vehicle that is not so reliable? If he wants to leave then why purchase a vehicle together and finance it in both of our names?”

I thought you guys were really good with money?

I suggest doing the following:

1. Your husband should pursue the new job, because he really does seem to need some change in his life right now.
2. You don’t need to buy a new car right this minute. He hasn’t even been accepted, right?
3. Start saving for the new car. Start doing a budget if you haven’t already, and block out a large sum for car savings. Be sacrificial, and point out to him that you are doing this because it’s important to him.
4. You only need an extra car for 11 weeks. He can take your nicer car and you get a disposable car to cover you for those 11 weeks. (Do any family members who are nice to their cars have a spare car that’s just sitting around that they could sell you or loan? A lot of older couples really don’t need all their vehicles.) Also, research long-term rentals.

enterprise.com/car_rental/intresImage.do?imageId=129009.3&key=996.en.US…&page=home

1. If your husband gets balky and “I wanna” or “I work hard” (waaaaah!), point out to him that 1) you’re not signing anything 2) you don’t feel like you should make any major financial decisions with regard to credit when he isn’t even sure he’s sticking around (why enter into a 7-year-lease on a car with a guy who has only given you a 1-year-lease on your marriage?) 3) you want him to have a nice car, but you want it to be a nice car you can afford.

I would normally say, buy what you can pay for in cash, but in this situation, I think I might make the following deal. “Let’s see what we can save up and I’m OK with borrowing the same amount on a short term.” Say, for instance, that you save up $2,000. Feel free, then, to buy a $4,000 car and put it on a three-year loan. Or if you save $5k, buy a $10k car and put it on a three-year loan. Etc. I’m not totally comfortable with that, either, but it does show you meeting him half way. There’s no way I would put anything on a 7-year loan when he’s going to want a new car way earlier than that.

 

[Xantippe]

I agree about not reminding him about divorce, but as it is a fairly strong possibility, don’t sign up for anything that will continue to hurt you if he leaves you. Don’t sign up for any deal that you would regret if he left.

Bring the car thing up with the therapist in your joint session.

It is a good sign that he’s excited about something and is looking into a new job.

 

[Serap]

I agree about not reminding him about divorce, but as it is a fairly strong possibility, don’t sign up for anything that will continue to hurt you if he leaves you. Don’t sign up for any deal that you would regret if he left.

Bring the car thing up with the therapist in your joint session.

It is a good sign that he’s excited about something and is looking into a new job.

This advice was good, but I would highly recommend talking it over with the therapist and giving it a lot of thought first.

1. He is attempting to make sure his family will be ok while he’s at work
2. This could mean that he’s thinking long-term (i.e., not leaving you)
3. Any negativity could summon his desire to leave again

If you discern to tell him that you are not so sure, then make sure you frame it in a way that doesn’t look like you are expecting him to leave. Frame it like, “what we can afford…” kind of tone. Make sure it is positive and b/c you want to ensure your family’s financial safety/

Me personally, and I could be naive here, I would go with it and purchase a second vehicle. IMO, this would show him also that you trust his opinion and your in it for the long haul.

I highly doubt he would leave you in financial trouble ever. He seems like a very honest and trustworthy guy to me.

 

[bernadettefaith]

“So I’m just not sure about what to do. He’s very insistent that we need to purchase a vehicle and it needs to be a newer model, not a “junk” car. Should I assume that if he wants to purchase a vehicle together that he wants to stay?”

No. My aunt’s husband bought a new Suburban without asking her right before he left…without the Suburban. She’s still driving it nearly 15 years later. The bad decision-making of a guy in midlife crisis can be a pretty global phenomenon.

“Or should I remind him that if he seriously wants to consider divorce that he needs to cut back on spending and go with a vehicle that is not so reliable? If he wants to leave then why purchase a vehicle together and finance it in both of our names?”

I thought you guys were really good with money?

I suggest doing the following:

1. Your husband should pursue the new job, because he really does seem to need some change in his life right now.
2. You don’t need to buy a new car right this minute. He hasn’t even been accepted, right?
3. Start saving for the new car. Start doing a budget if you haven’t already, and block out a large sum for car savings. Be sacrificial, and point out to him that you are doing this because it’s important to him.
4. You only need an extra car for 11 weeks. He can take your nicer car and you get a disposable car to cover you for those 11 weeks. (Do any family members who are nice to their cars have a spare car that’s just sitting around that they could sell you or loan? A lot of older couples really don’t need all their vehicles.) Also, research long-term rentals.

enterprise.com/car_rental/intresImage.do?imageId=129009.3&key=996.en.US…&page=home

1. If your husband gets balky and “I wanna” or “I work hard” (waaaaah!), point out to him that 1) you’re not signing anything 2) you don’t feel like you should make any major financial decisions with regard to credit when he isn’t even sure he’s sticking around (why enter into a 7-year-lease on a car with a guy who has only given you a 1-year-lease on your marriage?) 3) you want him to have a nice car, but you want it to be a nice car you can afford.

I would normally say, buy what you can pay for in cash, but in this situation, I think I might make the following deal. “Let’s see what we can save up and I’m OK with borrowing the same amount on a short term.” Say, for instance, that you save up $2,000. Feel free, then, to buy a $4,000 car and put it on a three-year loan. Or if you save $5k, buy a $10k car and put it on a three-year loan. Etc. I’m not totally comfortable with that, either, but it does show you meeting him half way. There’s no way I would put anything on a 7-year loan when he’s going to want a new car way earlier than that.

I think that we’re “good” with money but we don’t have a ton of excess either. I’d assume that a divorce would mean that each of us would have to downgrade somewhat at least from what we are used to. We can’t purchase another car with cash right now - at least not something that we would be crazy about. What we were considering would require at least a 3 year loan. We should have enough for a down payment by spring (when he would need it).

He hasn’t been accepted yet, but I’d say that so far things are looking really good. If he ends up not getting the job then we can hold off a little longer.

We don’t have any family with extra cars, but I might look into a rental. He probably wouldn’t be too happy with that as a rental would suck up the money that we’ve saved for a down payment.

He has brought up the idea of cutting our budget way down to save for our down payment. We should also have a tax refund by March that can be earmarked for the down payment. Maybe not the vehicle he’d love to get, but we could maybe get something cheaper.

I like the idea of meeting him halfway. That might be the best option. Ideally, we would stay married and be able to afford a 3 year loan on the vehicle that we want…but since we aren’t in the ideal place I suppose we have to compromise.

He is going to wonder why I’m not on board with the purchase he’d like to make. I don’t know quite how to explain it to him as it involves the marriage.

 

[Serap]

I think that we’re “good” with money but we don’t have a ton of excess either. I’d assume that a divorce would mean that each of us would have to downgrade somewhat at least from what we are used to. We can’t purchase another car with cash right now - at least not something that we would be crazy about. What we were considering would require at least a 3 year loan. We should have enough for a down payment by spring (when he would need it).

He hasn’t been accepted yet, but I’d say that so far things are looking really good. If he ends up not getting the job then we can hold off a little longer.

We don’t have any family with extra cars, but I might look into a rental. He probably wouldn’t be too happy with that as a rental would suck up the money that we’ve saved for a down payment.

I like the idea of meeting him halfway. That might be the best option. Ideally, we would stay married and be able to afford a 3 year loan on the vehicle that we want…but since we aren’t in the ideal place I suppose we have to compromise.

Then maybe ask him to commit to staying with you until the car is paid off in 3 years? See what he says. I bet he’ll commit to that

 

[bernadettefaith]

Then maybe ask him to commit to staying with you until the car is paid off in 3 years? See what he says. I bet he’ll commit to that

He might…but I don’t know that bringing up relationship stuff is smart at the moment.

The therapist and I talked about this a little while I had an individual session the other day. She seemed to think it was a good sign that he talked about our future. However, I mentioned that there’s also the possibility that he doesn’t really think ahead and plan out his future. He might not consider that his post divorce budget would be way less than his current budget. He might possibly be able to afford the payment himself after divorce but I’m sure it would be an extremely tight crunch.

If I bring it up again, should I bring it up in front of him? I just fear bringing up divorce too much will keep it in his mind if that makes sense.

 

[Xantippe]

bernadettefaith said:

“He probably wouldn’t be too happy with that as a rental would suck up the money that we’ve saved for a down payment.”

But then he’d have a cruiser at the end of the academy, so you wouldn’t really need a second car that bad.

“He has brought up the idea of cutting our budget way down to save for our down payment. We should also have a tax refund by March that can be earmarked for the down payment. Maybe not the vehicle he’d love to get, but we could maybe get something cheaper.”

That sounds good that he’s willing to wait and he’s willing to cut back on other things.

 

[Serap]

He might…but I don’t know that bringing up relationship stuff is smart at the moment.

The therapist and I talked about this a little while I had an individual session the other day. She seemed to think it was a good sign that he talked about our future. However, I mentioned that there’s also the possibility that he doesn’t really think ahead and plan out his future. He might not consider that his post divorce budget would be way less than his current budget. He might possibly be able to afford the payment himself after divorce but I’m sure it would be an extremely tight crunch.

If I bring it up again, should I bring it up in front of him? I just fear bringing up divorce too much will keep it in his mind if that makes sense.

I agree with you…no divorce talk from you. There is already enough negativity coming from him.