Married man to be ordained as priest

[Elizabeth502]

FWIW, I agree with everything you’ve said, Matthew. I see it as a win/win/win for the individual priests themselves, for the priesthood in general, and for the laity.

 

[JW10631]

I wish that those who are bothered by the ordinations of married men would make an attempt to understand what is happening rather than state a blanket disapproval.

The Latin Church has not abandoned its law of ordination of celibate men and will not do so. The provision for ordination of married Anglican clergy was put in place to make it easier for traditional Catholic-leaning Anglicans to enter the Latin Catholic Church. Only married former Anglican clergy can apply for the provision and they can only be Catholic priests, not bishops. Most of the time they minister almost exclusively to their parishes, who have converted to the Catholic Church with them.

There is a great interest in the Traditional Anglican Communion about the new provision issued by the Holy Father. Many parishes are looking to convert to the Latin Catholic Church and this is a great and blessed occurrence.

The Eastern Catholic Churches have always had a married clergy. It is in the United States that the Latin Catholic bishops gave the Eastern Churches a hard time about this practice. As a result, thousands of Byzantine Catholics left to form the Orthodox Church of America, the American Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Diocese of Johnstown, Pennsylvania and to join other Orthodox churches.

The celibacy law was meant for the Latin Church. Understanding the exceptions to the law as well as learning about the Anglicans who are working be fully Catholic as well as the Eastern Catholics is a benefit to us all.

 

[Petergee]

I think it is wrong as some have said that the priest cannot fully devote his time to his priestly vocation if he is a married man.

Have you told our Lord and St Paul that they were “wrong” when they said this?

about I think many married priests are married to women who become fully engaged in the Church. A priest’s wife and family can be very supportive to a priest. I also think that a priest who can “come home from work” and talk through his day with his wife and family is likely to be a less stressed priest than one who goes home to an empty presbytery.

Or it could make it much more difficult for a priest who has just had a stressful time hearuing confessions or even pastoring to people outdside the confessional, when his widfe can see something is bothering him but he is forbidden under pain of excommunication from even hinting to her what it might be. And people have the right to know that personal or spiritual conversations that they have with a priest are not going to be relayed to someone who is not even a priest.

 

[Petergee]

The Eastern Catholic Churches have always had a married clergy. It is in the United States that the Latin Catholic bishops gave the Eastern Churches a hard time about this practice.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the bishops. Maybe a few of them gave a hard time, but the main problem was the general culture in the USA, which just didn’t “get” the idea that a married man might be a Catholic priest. In the days before multiculturalism came into vogue, immigrant communities tried very hard to fit in by adapting as much of the local way of doing things as possible.

Also Eastern Catholic bishops didn’t want to have to pay for the travel, accomodfation, and much higher living costs for a priest’s wife and children when they sent him on mission to the New World.

 

[macaronte]

Who am I but…

I love seeing God’s calling of ministers from other denominations back into the Catholic Church. The more the better… for Christ established: ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC & APOSTOLIC CHURCH. The Latin Rite has established a disciplinary measure with celibacy… yet the Church is so wise and loving that it allows married ministers into their fold. I follow with unquestioned obedience all of the precepts established by the CHURCH holding the KEYS given it by our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. If I were born in a remote jungle I would have hoped meeting a Catholic missionary and receiving from him the Evangelium. There’s nothing like belonging to the Church that Jesus Christ established.
“Dearest Holy Spirit make me stronger in the faith”. --Macaronte

 

[Suslar]

I’ve been thinking about far more practical aspects of married clergy.

Take for instance the question of where the family would live. Our rectory houses the pastor, an associate pastor and two retired priests. Should we have a new associate come who happens to be married, where would he and his family live? Not only would there be no room in the rectory, but it could be odd to have a family living with celibate men. Would the Archdiocese be responsible for additional housing? Who would pay for that? Who would pay for the additional costs associated with the family – things like medical insurance? Just wondering . . . .

 

[JW10631]

I think you’re being a bit hard on the bishops. Maybe a few of them gave a hard time, but the main problem was the general culture in the USA, which just didn’t “get” the idea that a married man might be a Catholic priest. In the days before multiculturalism came into vogue, immigrant communities tried very hard to fit in by adapting as much of the local way of doing things as possible.

Also Eastern Catholic bishops didn’t want to have to pay for the travel, accomodfation, and much higher living costs for a priest’s wife and children when they sent him on mission to the New World.

I think you should check out byzcath.org. Many Latin bishops were very hard on the Eastern Catholic Churches. It is the job of the bishops to educate their flocks about the Church, all of it, not just their Particular Church.

The demands put on the Eastern Catholics by the Latin Catholic bishops caused schism among the Eastern Catholics in the United States. Bishop John Ireland was beyond rude and mean to Bishop Alexis Toth. Toth, an Eastern Catholic bishop who was a married priest and subsequently a widower before becoming a bishop, took his flock and started the Orthodox Church of America.

Another schism was started in the 1920s. The Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church had to cease ordaining married men to the priesthood. A large part of this church left the Catholic Church and formed the American Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Church, based in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Lawsuits were filed over ownership of church property. These split apart families and friends and it went on for years.

I am familiar with this because the Byzantine Ruthenian Metropolia is based in Pittsburgh. I used to volunteer with the annual Our Lady of Perpetual Help pilgrammage in Uniontown. To this day there are Byzantine Catholics bitter at the Latin Church for sticking its nose where it did not belong.

The Ukraninan Greek Catholic Church ordains married men in Canada. The Maronite Catholic Church ordains married men in Lebanon.

Bishop John Botean of the Byzantine Romanian Catholic Church in the US, based in Canton, Ohio, has ordained married men to the priesthood.

Married clergy is a part of Eastern Catholic tradition. The Latin Church has no business discouraging it or interfering in it anywhere. Mandatory celibacy is the law in the Latin Church and is unique to her. Some teaching of Eastern Catholicism should be a part of every Latin Catholic’s catechesis.

 

[mlund]

This is not news, other than a joyful notification that another brother in Christ has returned to Christ’s true, universal Church and in so doing he has allowed God to bless us with another faithful priest, obedient to his rightful Bishop and Christ’s Vicar on earth.

This is not an unusual occurrence, though. It has happened with Anglican priests who convert to the universal Church for a long time. They are given dispensation under the Latin Rite by the authority of the Roman Pontiff who governs all doctrinal laws pertaining to the Latin Rite.

Meanwhile, many of the Eastern Rites of our Catholic Church (not to be confused with Orthodox Churches) have always accepted married men into the Priesthood. Members of the Latin Rite may not be ordained priests while married. No man who is a priest may then become married under any Rite of the Catholic Church.

This is not news. People who assert that this is a noteworthy change in Catholic teachings or positions are simply spreading misinformation.

Married clergy is a part of Eastern Catholic tradition. The Latin Church has no business discouraging it or interfering in it anywhere. Mandatory celibacy is the law in the Latin Church and is unique to her. Some teaching of Eastern Catholicism should be a part of every Latin Catholic’s catechesis.

There is just one problem - the Pope is Supreme Pontiff over all of Catholicism, and he has the supreme authority to appoint Bishops to or from a particular see and in his hands rests the authority to establish, dissolve, and define any diocese. If the Holy Father rules that Eastern Rites may only be practiced in limited capacity in the West (well beyond the borders given to those churches) then priests and Bishops of those sees must abide his authority.

It is however, true that it is unbecoming of any person from one Rite to snipe at or harass those the Holy See has seen fit to allow dispensation to worship under their own Rite in a particular area. Likewise it would be ill-advised for anyone to overstep the dispensation or authority to practice a Rite beyond what was granted to them by the Pope.

• Marty Lund

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Have you told our Lord and St Paul that they were “wrong” when they said this?

Where did our Lord or St Paul say that the clergy had to be celibate. Are you saying that the 22 sui iuris Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with the Holy See are disobeying our Lord; are the Orthodox Churches also disobeying our Lord. For that matter, the Latin Church must have been in disobedience in the past. It is my understanding that priestly celibacy is a matter of disciplinary law not divine law. I know he won’t, but the Holy Father could issue an Apostolic Constitution tomorrow saying all Latin Catholic priests can marry.

Or it could make it much more difficult for a priest who has just had a stressful time hearuing confessions or even pastoring to people outdside the confessional, when his widfe can see something is bothering him but he is forbidden under pain of excommunication from even hinting to her what it might be. And people have the right to know that personal or spiritual conversations that they have with a priest are not going to be relayed to someone who is not even a priest.

I’m afraid that argument cannot hold water. Doctor’s have stressful days but cannot reveal to their spouses matters of patient confidentiality; lawyers may come how from work feeling stressed and they have client confidentiality to respect; I am a teacher and there are things I learn about my students and which stress me but I cannot reveal them to my wife; I could go on, psychologists, social workers, etc.

There are ways in which once spouse can help you manage stress without needing to know confidential information.

With respect to your final statement I thought the seal of the confessional was so inviolable that a priest could not even discuss a person’s confession with another priest. I earnestly hope that when a group of priests get together for a glass of whiskey and a game of cards they aren’t having a good laugh: “you know what I heard in the confessional today …”.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Only married former Anglican clergy can apply for the provision and they can only be Catholic priests

I thought married clergy from other denominations could be accepted into the Catholic Church and become priests.

Most of the time they minister almost exclusively to their parishes, who have converted to the Catholic Church with them.

I think that’s only the situation in the USA where there are so-called Anglican Use parishes. We don’t have a similar situation in the UK and won’t until the personal ordinariates come into being. I believe, but I may be mistaken, that married Catholic priests who are former Anglicans in England are usually only appointed as assistant parish priests (in US = parochial vicar) I don’t think they’re appointed as parish priests (in US = pastor).

 

[JW10631]

. There is just one problem - the Pope is Supreme Pontiff over all of Catholicism, and he has the supreme authority to appoint Bishops to or from a particular see and in his hands rests the authority to establish, dissolve, and define any diocese. If the Holy Father rules that Eastern Rites may only be practiced in limited capacity in the West (well beyond the borders given to those churches) then priests and Bishops of those sees must abide his authority.

It is however, true that it is unbecoming of any person from one Rite to snipe at or harass those the Holy See has seen fit to allow dispensation to worship under their own Rite in a particular area. Likewise it would be ill-advised for anyone to overstep the dispensation or authority to practice a Rite beyond what was granted to them by the Pope.

• Marty Lund

Hi, Marty,

The United States of America is in a unique place in the universal Catholic Church. It is one of the few countries in this world where all of the Particular Churches of the Catholic Church can be found. Of course, the vast majority of Catholics in the USA are Latin Catholic.

My earlier points about Bishop John Ireland of Minneapolis and the schisms in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church in Western Pennsylvania are due to a total lack of charity on the part of the Latin Church in dealing with the East. Pope Pius XI ruled that celibacy was mandatory in the USA in the 1920s. Pope John Paul II reversed this when he issued Orientale Lumen. Mandatory celibacy is a “Latinism” that was forced upon the Eastern Catholic Churches in the USA. It was to their detriment. There were Ukrainian Catholics who became Ukrainian Orthodox at the same time the Ruthenians were split by schism.

Mandatory celibacy is a law that has served the Latin Church very well. The few exceptions to allow married Anglican (and on a few occasions, Lutheran) clergy to become Catholic priests is a very worthwhile exception to the law. Mandatory celibacy for parish priesthood is not the tradition in the East and this must be respected if there will ever be an agreement with the Eastern Orthodox Churches (one thing of many in regards to the Eastern Orthodox).

 

[Rolltide]

I thought married clergy from other denominations could be accepted into the Catholic Church and become priests.

This is correct. There are former Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and even one Baptist who have done so in the US.

 

[imperial]

One of the Priests at my parish is married with several children. He and his whole family converted together several years ago. I don’t see a problem with it really - he was married before he was ordained and he’s an excellent hospital chaplain and his masses are beautiful. He sings most of the words during mass.

l’d be singing too if i had it both ways. You can not serve two masters.

 

[JW10631]

l’d be singing too if i had it both ways. You can not serve two masters.

Please clarify. What are you talking about?

 

[estesbob]

I find it odd that the Church will bend the rules to allow a married man be a Priest, but will stop not allow a woman to be one.

Celibacy is a discipline in the Western church, male priesthood is a doctrine The former can be changed any time the Pope wants to ,the latter cannot.

 

[flameburns623]

I find it odd that the Church will bend the rules to allow a married man be a Priest, but will stop not allow a woman to be one.

It is impossible for a woman to be a priest.

Celibacy for religious is a discipline, not a dogma.

Restriction of the priesthood to men only is dogma, not discipline.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Just for clarification, this priest was already married. You cannot become a priest and then get married, but if you are a priest in certain other faiths, you can convert, be ordained and remain married. This is referred to the Pastoral Provision. It was established under Pope John Paul II to address Episcopal priest who wished to become Catholic.

It’s just unfortunate that we’ll ordain married men from heretical religions to the Priesthood but deny married men of our own Latin Rite, should they feel called. It is more than possible that God can and “does” call men to both vocations. The Latin Rite is the only Rite of the Church that absolutely denies married Roman Catholic men from entering the Priesthood. I don’t want to sound like a child and say, “That’s not fair”. But it isn’t. No one is “entitled” to the Priesthood. It is a call, not a right. But for the Church to let protestant ministers who are married become Roman Catholic Priests, is a slap in the face to every Roman Catholic man who ever seriously discerned the Priesthood but chose not to pursue it because they weren’t strong enough to give up having a family (myself being one of them). Protestant ministers who are married, who convert, ought to be restricted to the laity or the Permanent Diaconate like married Roman Catholic layman. We’ll ordain men who surrounded themselves with heresy before coming to the Truth of Christ, but we won’t ordain Christ’s faithful? There is something wrong with that. I appreciate the practice of Priestly celibacy and indeed, feel it should be encouraged. But not enforced. It is better for man to marry than burn with desire. The same can be said for Priests (prior to their ordinations). It should either be a universal ban on married men becoming Priests or let married Roman Catholic layman pursue the Priesthood as well. If God is calling them they only have two choices. Abandon their vocation for a lesser one, or leave the Latin Rite for one of the many other Rites who understand that God calls men to both Matrimony and Holy Orders. As for me, I’m looking east.

 

[OriginalJS]

With all due respect, no one is talking about that, and the Church never “lets priests get married.”

This is the ordination to the priesthood of an already married man, which is entirely different.

I agree with you that priestly celibacy is a wonderful discipline that the Latin church of the Catholic Church should preserve and enforce.

But thoughtful exceptions - in which married men are ordained, not in which unmarried priests get married, which is never allowed - are no threat to the discipline of the celibacy of the priesthood, as you seem to imply:

This is just paranoia. Allowing married Episcopalian clergy who convert to the true Catholic faith to be ordained as Roman Catholic priests is not part of any slippery slope; it’s a thoughtful, practical, and wisely implemented exception. There is no evidence that this exception indicates the Latin church will abandon its centuries-old discipline of priestly celibacy.

Furthermore, be careful with your blanket statements about celibacy in general. It’s a noble and profound discipline, but the Catholic Church would be quite corrupt indeed if priestly celibacy were strictly necessary, since the Church has, throughout her history, ordained many married men:

In the eastern Catholic churches today, the priesthood is open to married men. And although all Catholic ritual churches today have a celibate episcopacy, that doesn’t change the fact that many of the Church’s first bishops were married, including St. Peter, the first bishop of Rome and thus the first pope.

In fact, there have been other validly married popes as well. Pope St. Silverius is the legitimate son of Pope St. Hormisdas. (Admittedly, St. Hormisdas was already a widower when elected pope, though.)

Technically, you are correct. But, the distinction is difficult for laiety to understand. I was a parishioner at a church where a very popular priest had to leave when he married a nun and he was replaced by a converted protestant minister with a wife and children. It prompted some head scratching.

 

[padre_seraphim]

i am a fomer Orthodox priest with a family who was baptised as an infant in the roman rite.
i later converted to Orthodoxy, went to seminary, married and was ordained.
after 20 years of ecclesial service i asked for a release and submitted my papers to rome.
after much debat and many Votums from my adopting roman ordinary i recieved a document signed by the Holy Father formally granting me faculties and placing my under the protection of my bishop.

does anyone know of any othe cases like this!?
althoughthere are many fomer anglicans who have joined the One True Church, i am interested in finding other Eastern Orthodox, of any juridiction, who have converted to the Church - Latin or Roman Rite if you prefer - been received by celebrating a 1 st Mass, never being required seminary or ordination.

ii know most Orthodox priests if they convert to the Church go directly to an Eastern Catholic bishop to be received. i was prevented - by law - because i was baptised Roman Rite, so, how you go out is how you must re-enter / IF allowed.

please tell me if anyone knows,
i would be interested in creating contact amoungst us few.
when asked the CDF did not recall any exactly like my case. but there may.be some who were cradle Orthodox and converted to the Latin/Roman Rite.

THANKS in advance,
fraternally your in the service of Christ,
padre seraphim

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

This is what I believe would be a good discipline for the Church.

-Allowing married men to be ordained to the diaconate, but requiring single men being ordained to the diaconate (which the Church already has in place)

-Allowing married men (who have already been ordained to the diaconate) to be ordained to the priesthood, but ordaining single men to the priesthood, those men would have to remain celibate.

-Keeping the celibacy rule obligatory for priests and deacons of religious orders (only applying the above laxity to secular clergy).

-Candidates for the episcopasy all be required to remain celibate (i.e. no married bishops).

-Once a married priest is widowed, he must remain celibate unless in agrave situation in which the Church dispenses him (i.e. if he has young children and needs the assistance of a mother to help raise his children).

Married clergy who are converts from other faiths and Eastern Rite married priests seem to manage having a family and being a priest all at the same time, I say that married priests in the Church (in a way) could be a good thing. However, celibacy is still a beautiful gift that God gives to people and that people should still try to take advantage of it, if they feel that God is calling them to it. Keep in mind, clerical celibacy is not an infallibly define dogma of the Church, but is only a discipline and can change in the future if the Holy See decides to. But what I’ve posted above is only my opinion.