Mary Mediatrix of All Graces

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Pope Leo XIII was Pope when Blessed John Henry Newman was a bishop. It is not new.
 
Fauken said:
Pope Leo XIII was Pope when Blessed John Henry Newman was a bishop. It is not new.
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I’m not following you… what does Pope Leo being Pope have to do with Cardinal Newman?

Also, a few hundred years old is pretty new in Church age, no? But if you can reference any scripture or early fathers teaching this, i’m open to being convinced. As far as I know, there is zero support for this in scripture… or the patristic fathers
 
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I was assuming you were referencing Newmann as a defense against this “new idea” since he lived quite some time ago, so I referenced Pope Leo XIII to show that beliefs affirming this existed during his time too.
 
Fauken said:
I was assuming you were referencing Newmann as a defense against this “new idea” since he lived quite some time ago, so I referenced Pope Leo XIII to show that beliefs affirming this existed during his time
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Got it… that was about 150 years ago… just shy of 8% of the time that the Church has been around…even if you look at back to 1600, you’re still only talking about 20% of all of Church history… kinda late in the game to introduce a completely new way of grace distribution?

I’m being flippant, but seems novel… it would be nice if there were something in revelation about this…
 
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Mary’s Immaculate Conception wasn’t dogmatically defined until what, the 1950’s? Wouldn’t that be considered a long time for the Church to get something that important about Mary figured out?
 
Fauken said:
Mary’s Immaculate Conception wasn’t dogmatically defined until what, the 1950’s? Wouldn’t that be considered a long time for the Church to get something that important about Mary figured out?
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Yes it was… however there is plenty of evidence of this long standing belief dating back to the 2nd-3rd centuries… same with the assumption.

Not Mediatrix of All Graces… that is new and relies on papal statements and saintly love poetry… not revelation
 
“Mary, Mediatrix of all Grace.”
Thomas a Kempis, The Imitation of Mary. Book 2, Chapter 8.
That’s the title of the chapter.
So apparently the appellation is at least 550+ years old, yes? Older, unless Thomas a Kempis invented it… which I doubt.
 
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Benadam said:
f you believe Jesus is God then there is a supreme mediator between God ( Jesus) and men.

Not through Jesus does the world receive salvation.

Through Mary the world receives Salvation.
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Respectfully toward opinion only. Pondering on His Spoken Word and Let those who have ears hear what the Holy Spirit says to…

Does Jesus not warns us about do not accept another gospel other then the one I have handed you, does he not?

I gave them you Name but they accepted another?

What does our Heavenly Father have to say about false gospels?

God is Sovereign?

Written>>>Those who hear you Peter hear me…Where has Peter preached such? Or where has His chosen Apostles , or the Brother of the Lord, James state such within their teachings or James Epistle?

2 Peter 2:1 > But false prophets also arose among the people just as there will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring destructive heresies. Even even denying the Master who brought them bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Galatians 1:6-8> I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the Grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

Galatians 1:8 But even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other then the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse.

Our Heavenly Father is Sovereign?
Isaiah 42: 8 > I am the Lord that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Our Heavenly Father is >Sovereign?
Isaiah For my own sake for my own sake I will act; For how can My Name be profamed? And My glory I will not give to another.

John 1:16 Out of the fullness we have received grace, he has blessed us all and giving us one blessing after another.

Those who preach another Jesus or another gospel or add to his word or subtract from> just a few listed, but there are so many all throughout the bible
2 Corinthians 11:4
2 Corinth. 9:8
2 Corinth 11:13-15
2 John 4:2
Ephesians 2:8
2 Corith 11:3-4
2 Peter 1:20
Rev 20: 1-15
Rev 17: 1-18
Exodus 20: 3 You shall have no other gods before me.
Our Heavenly Father is Sovereign?

Our Heavenly Father is Sovereign and has been bestowing His Grace and Blessings upon us since the beginning of time, Grace depends not on us but upon him alone?

Do not misunderstand either Blessed Mary 💗 Peace 🙂
 
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Here is the statement (again) from the commission that Saint Pope JPII convened on to study this topic…in 1996 I believe

‘In accord with the precedent set at Vatican II, the participants agreed that a doctrinal declaration should not “settle questions which have not yet been fully clarified by the work of theologians” (LG 54); they noted that Vatican II had already stated that the “Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix” (LG 62). Although these titles are in common use, they are subject to ambiguous and different interpretations.’

Here is St John Paul II writing to the Montfort religious family in 2003…

‘…However, the considerable development of Marian theology since St. Louis Marie’s time is largely due to the crucial contribution made by the Second Vatican Council. The Montfort teaching, therefore, which has retained its essential validity should be reread and reinterpreted today in the light of the Council.’

Seems clear to me that the Church has clearly stated the title Mediatrix of All Graces is not fully stood and the corresponding theology is yet undefined and ambiguous… and that the second Vatican Council set out a course where unsettled questions (like this one) should not be settled before the topic is fully clarified.

So while it may be wrong to deny the title Mediatrix of All Graces as common, it is equally as wrong to insist that the subject is settled…

I stand by one of my first comments… that Mary is Mediatrix if All Grace pious belief that may be believed, not must be believed as true for Catholics.
 
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anon10271182 said:
You continue to evade answering my direct question as to your acceptance or rejection of Mary as Mediatrix.
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Because it isn’t the question. Who cares what my personal opinion on the matter is?

You said that Mediatrix of All Graces is a logical necessity but your syllogism showing it seems invalid.

The problem is that if you reform your syllogism to show that:
All Grace is by Christ (All G is C)
Any Aspect of Christ is through Mary (All C is M)
Then all Grace is also by Mary (Therefore, All G is M)

Then we’re left with a situation where there’s no real rational reason to stop at “Mediatrix of All Graces”. We’ve cracked open a case of full-blown Co-Redemptrix heresy.

It seems the emulation of the Sacred Feminine into the Church may have gotten a little out of hand… 🙂
 
Not a matter of feminism at all. And “Co-Redemptrix” isn’t even on the table. Why bring it up?
 
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I don’t understand your equation of those popes with the three I mentioned.
 
anon10271182 said:
Not a matter of feminism at all.
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Whoa! Who mentioned feminism? The sacred feminine is older than Christianity, brochacho.
And “co-redemptrix” isn’t even on the table. Why bring it up?
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In Marian honorifics as they pertain to function, you either think her intercessor, mediator or co-redeemer. It’s a natural extension.
 
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Please explain how “Mediatrix of All Graces” equals “Co-Redemptrix.”
 
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