Matthew 6:7 Repeating prayer

[PRmerger]

So is there a limit one can say a prayer in a certain amount of time?

I’d like to know the answer to this, as well.

To those who oppose “repeating prayer”, what is the answer?

How much time between successive prayers is required for it to not be considered “repetitive” and therefore contrary to what you believe the Word of God proclaims?

 

[jericho777]

He may have. Scripture doesn’t say everything Jesus said or did. What if He prayed the Our Father more than once in a day? What if the Apostles did? Scripture is silent on whether He did or not, so you cannot presume that He never repeated the Our Father.

Also, you didn’t answer any of my questions in that post. Probably because you cannot. I will pray for you (repeatedly).

So here is the entire post again, so that you may address it:

Perhaps you should ask the inspired writer of Psalms why he felt it necessary to repeat the same prayer over and over again?

Praise the LORD, for he is good;
for his mercy endures forever;

Praise the God of gods;
for his mercy endures forever;

Praise the Lord of lords;
for his mercy endures forever;

Who alone has done great wonders,
for his mercy endures forever;

Who skillfully made the heavens,
for his mercy endures forever;

Who spread the earth upon the waters,
for his mercy endures forever;

Who made the great lights,
for his mercy endures forever;

The structure and purpose of this psalm is totally different in use and application compared to saying 5,10 or how ever many repititions of a given prayer. I was born and raised catholic so I see the difference in the use of repititious prayer.

 

[jericho777]

Ok. But Catholics do not believe we will receive extra merit for our many words. Quantity is not valuable, as far as words go.

So why then would you have to say 10 repetitive prayers in order to perform penance. Shouldn’t once be suffecient? Or saying any number of repetitive prayers to get someone out of purgatory?

 

[PeaceInChrist]

THe our Father is a pattern for prayer and not necessarily a prayer per se. Not that it can’t be.

Please see post 25 was my response.

Post 25 was not an answer to the same post. Here it is again:

“My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" - Jesus, in the garden

“Give us this day, our daily bread” - Jesus, from the Our Father

Both prayers were prayers of petition. You are failing thus far to convince me that they were different.

Also, the widow asked repeatedly. In Luke 11, Jesus says that because of the man’s importunity (to harass with persistent requests; demand of (someone) insistently), what he asks will be given. He then says to ask, and it will be given.

Why, if Jesus asked insistently, are we not to ask insistently? In fact, Jesus modeled the perfect form of repeating a request to the Lord: that we petition Him, but ultimately submit to His will.

Additionally, why did Jesus give the Samaritan woman what she asked only after she had asked repeatedly? Why didn’t He condemn her for petitioning the same request more than once? Your Scripture reading is out of context. The Lord never forbid us from repeating a prayer more than once.

How, exactly, do you get that the ‘Our Father’ is not a prayer, per se? People literally asked Jesus how to pray, and the Our Father is what He said. You are being highly un-Scriptural right now.

You have not answered why the petition in the Our Father is different from Christ’s petition in the garden. You have not answered why praying a Psalm (which repeats) is different from repeating other prayers. You have not demonstrated why a ‘prayer from your heart’ is somehow worth more to God than an excellent prayer, said repeatedly, with sincerity. You have not explained why any offering, including time in prayer, would somehow be negated if it were repeated prayer, even though the Lord tells us to persevere in prayer, and that if we offer something up to Him, He will give back.

And if the issue of mediation has not been brought up, why is it not valid to repeat prayers while meditating on God?

So far your answers have consisted of you claiming your unwritten prayers are worth more than our prayers because we repeat a few ancient prayers. You have also now said that the Our Father is not a prayer, and that the Psalms are apparently not the same as prayer. And you have not demonstrated from Scripture why any of this is true.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He simply asked His Father a direct question if there was another way. That is not the same as saying ten our Fathers consecetively.

If Christ taught the Father knows what we need, before we ask it; why would He have done different?

Christ taught to pray the Our Father. What other ways did He teach to pray?

 

[PRmerger]

The structure and purpose of this psalm is totally different in use and application compared to saying 5,10 or how ever many repititions of a given prayer.

Please cite your source for the structure and purpose of this psalm being totally different in use and application.

I was born and raised catholic so I see the difference in the use of repititious prayer.

What is the difference?

 

[po18guy]

We don’t use prescripted prayers as a universal prayer for everything. You need healing, a job, help with an issue or penance for sin just say prayer “A” 10, 20 or what ever amount of times repetedly.

Like I said, you criticize what you do not know. Rather than criticize, would it not be better to learn?

Or is it wrong simply because Catholics practice it? (rhetorical)

 

[stewstew03]

What is the purpose in repeating the same prayer over and over again five, ten or twenty times in a row? Is God unable to hear you the first time? What is the reason for doing this? Does it carry more power the more times you repeat it?

It’s not about ensuring that God hears us, but, rather, making sure we hear God.

You seem to be suggesting that all we need to do is say one complete, robust prayer, and be done with it. After all, did God not hear you the first time when you asked for His mercy and protection over your loved ones??

 

[PRmerger]

So why then would you have to say 10 repetitive prayers in order to perform penance. Shouldn’t once be suffecient?

If one were sufficient, then why the repetition in the Scriptures?

Why would you be opposed to someone reciting, all day long, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”, in his mind as he went about his day?

I find that beautiful.

Or saying any number of repetitive prayers to get someone out of purgatory?

Because God gives us the dignity of causality. He actually allows us to change events and assist in the salvation of others.

 

[jericho777]

Post 25 was not an answer to the same post. Here it is again:

How, exactly, do you get that the ‘Our Father’ is not a prayer, per se? People literally asked Jesus how to pray, and the Our Father is what He said. You are being highly un-Scriptural right now.

You have not answered why the petition in the Our Father is different from Christ’s petition in the garden. You have not answered why praying a Psalm (which repeats) is different from repeating other prayers. You have not demonstrated why a ‘prayer from your heart’ is somehow worth more to God than an excellent prayer, said repeatedly, with sincerity. You have not explained why any offering, including time in prayer, would somehow be negated if it were repeated prayer, even though the Lord tells us to persevere in prayer, and that if we offer something up to Him, He will give back.

And if the issue of mediation has not been brought up, why is it not valid to repeat prayers while meditating on God?

So far your answers have consisted of you claiming your unwritten prayers are worth more than our prayers because we repeat a few ancient prayers. You have also now said that the Our Father is not a prayer, and that the Psalms are apparently not the same as prayer. And you have not demonstrated from Scripture why any of this is true.

Both prayers were prayers of petition. Jesus asked His Father directly related to the circumstance at hand. He wasn’t asking for His daily bread.
The widow in Lk 11 did not petition the judge with the Father did she. She asked for exactly what she needed. We are encouraged to certainly ask God to meet our needs daily.

The Samaritan woman was not praying to Jesus. And she did not pray the our Father either. She simply asked for her need to be met. Incidentally prayer is for our benefit. God shows us the level of our commitment in our petitions to Him. However if we do not ask according to His will He will not grant our request.

Actually I strive to be in context. You just don’t like what scripture says.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Both prayers were prayers of petition. Jesus asked His Father directly related to the circumstance at hand. He wasn’t asking for His daily bread.
The widow in Lk 11 did not petition the judge with the Father did she. She asked for exactly what she needed. We are encouraged to certainly ask God to meet our needs daily.

The Samaritan woman was not praying to Jesus. And she did not pray the our Father either. She simply asked for her need to be met. Incidentally prayer is for our benefit. God shows us the level of our commitment in our petitions to Him. However if we do not ask according to His will He will not grant our request.

Actually I strive to be in context. You just don’t like what scripture says.

Each person has a his/her own way of praying/conversing with our Lord. For some people it is very difficult to put their emotions into words. Thus, our Lord gave us a universal way to pray. Further, He did not say to pray it only once.

In addition, St. Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise the words of prophets,[e] 21 but test everything; hold fast to what is good; 22 abstain from every form of evil.

We are to pray without ceasing because this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for us.

Who are you to tell anyone how to pray?

You advocate the Grace of God for each one of us and still fail to see that each one of us will have our own way to pray to our Lord.

You speak of context and yet you are deviating from:

*Ephesians 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

1 Corinthians 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

Romans 12:3 For by the grace given to me I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him.*

So each one of us find comfort in praying to our Lord in way that has been assigned to each one of us. You are in no place to criticize the manner in which some people choose to pray. If some find comfort in repetition because it helps them from being distracted, then be it. If some find comfort in making new prayers because it helps them, then be it.

The only important part is that we **actually **pray, and that we pray like we mean it.

We (Catholics) have been praying for 2,000 years, please don’t even try to tell us how to do it.

 

[po18guy]

Actually I strive to be in context. You just don’t like what scripture says.

Is there even the remotest possibility, however slight, that you could not fully understand the scriptures?

 

[Gorgias]

The widow in Lk 11 did not petition the judge with the Father did she. She asked for exactly what she needed.

Are you talking about the parable in Luke 18?

In it, the widow constantly asks the judge for a just judgment. Jesus then explains the parable: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night?” In other words, just as the widow petitioned the judge, Jesus explains what happens when we petition God. That is, when we petition God ‘day and night.’ For the same thing – just as the widow did. Your logic doesn’t hold here, you know…

Actually I strive to be in context. You just don’t like what scripture says.

Let’s look at that context, then. In Luke 11, we see Jesus’s command:

εἶπεν δὲ αὐτοῖς ὅταν προσεύχησθε λέγετε· Πάτερ,

(And he said to them, “When you pray, say, ‘Father, …’”)

Note that the word ‘say’ (λέγετε) is an imperative: Jesus is telling them “Say (this)!”. He’s not telling them “Say (something like this)”, but rather, he’s giving them an order: “Say ‘Father, …’”.

 

[jericho777]

Post 25 was not an answer to the same post. Here it is again:

How, exactly, do you get that the ‘Our Father’ is not a prayer, per se? People literally asked Jesus how to pray, and the Our Father is what He said. You are being highly un-Scriptural right now.

You have not answered why the petition in the Our Father is different from Christ’s petition in the garden. You have not answered why praying a Psalm (which repeats) is different from repeating other prayers. You have not demonstrated why a ‘prayer from your heart’ is somehow worth more to God than an excellent prayer, said repeatedly, with sincerity. You have not explained why any offering, including time in prayer, would somehow be negated if it were repeated prayer, even though the Lord tells us to persevere in prayer, and that if we offer something up to Him, He will give back.

And if the issue of mediation has not been brought up, why is it not valid to repeat prayers while meditating on God?

So far your answers have consisted of you claiming your unwritten prayers are worth more than our prayers because we repeat a few ancient prayers. You have also now said that the Our Father is not a prayer, and that the Psalms are apparently not the same as prayer. And you have not demonstrated from Scripture why any of this is true.

I used to be catholic so I know how it is. We would pray the rosary in school and it would turn into a monotone drone similar to a Buddhist chant. It became dulling to the senses. There was no freshness or intensity, just mindless repetition. I have seen it on EWTN and it had a Buddhist drone to it too.

Prayer is nothing more than speaking to God. It should also include quiet time to hear back from God.

 

[PRmerger]

I used to be catholic so I know how it is. We would pray the rosary in school and it would turn into a monotone drone similar to a Buddhist chant. It became dulling to the senses. There was no freshness or intensity, just mindless repetition. I have seen it on EWTN and it had a Buddhist drone to it too.

Prayer is nothing more than speaking to God. It should also include quiet time to hear back from God.

Is there something about a monotone drone that you find un-Scriptural? What exactly is sinful about that, if it turns one’s heart and mind towards God?

 

[jericho777]

Are you talking about the parable in Luke 18?

In it, the widow constantly asks the judge for a just judgment. Jesus then explains the parable: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night?” In other words, just as the widow petitioned the judge, Jesus explains what happens when we petition God. That is, when we petition God ‘day and night.’ For the same thing – just as the widow did. Your logic doesn’t hold here, you know…

Let’s look at that context, then. In Luke 11, we see Jesus’s command:

εἶπεν δὲ αὐτοῖς ὅταν προσεύχησθε λέγετε· Πάτερ,

(And he said to them, “When you pray, say, ‘Father, …’”)

Note that the word ‘say’ (λέγετε) is an imperative: Jesus is telling them “Say (this)!”. He’s not telling them “Say (something like this)”, but rather, he’s giving them an order: “Say ‘Father, …’”.

We are to direct our prayers to our Father who is in heaven. Who else would you pray to?

 

[PRmerger]

It became dulling to the senses. There was no freshness or intensity, just mindless repetition.

Perhaps it was for you. But you cannot make this assessment for all people who pray the rosary. (Unless you want to claim to be able to know how dull their senses are and you can judge the “mindlessness” of their prayer. How, in fact, does one do this???)

 

[jericho777]

Is there something about a monotone drone that you find un-Scriptural? What exactly is sinful about that, if it turns one’s heart and mind towards God?

It becomes a monotone drone from the constant repetition. You start saying the same thing over and over again and your mind tunes out and you lose focus. Just like the Buddhist chant it puts you into a mind altering trance.

 

[jericho777]

Perhaps it was for you. But you cannot make this assessment for all people who pray the rosary. (Unless you want to claim to be able to know how dull their senses are and you can judge the “mindlessness” of their prayer. How, in fact, does one do this???)

The whole class was droning. Not just one or two individuals.

 

[PRmerger]

It becomes a monotone drone from the constant repetition. You start saying the same thing over and over again and your mind tunes out and you lose focus. Just like the Buddhist chant it puts you into a mind altering trance.

Perhaps for you. You were not able to use the rosary to turn your heart and mind towards God.

Others can.