Meet the Next President: Kerry's Second Shot

[corvidae]

As far as the war goes- it is one of the least bloody wars we have ever been in, The only one that beats it is the first gulf war.

As far as why we are there, because if we left there would be chaos, and we would probably be worse than before.

As for what is the bigger evil, why not just compare the entire iraq war with one year of abortions. I am sure you will find the numbers enlightening.

A lone Raven

 

[JimR-OCDS]

As far as why we are there, because if we left there would be chaos, and we would probably be worse than before.
A lone Raven

There’s no chaos now, right?

 

[MikeWM]

As for what is the bigger evil, why not just compare the entire iraq war with one year of abortions. I am sure you will find the numbers enlightening.

Nevertheless, the government doesn’t send anybody to the abortion clinic (they just currently don’t stop people from going). They do send people to fight wars. We can stop people having abortions without changing the government. We can’t change foreign policy without changing the government.

All things to bear in mind when you cast your vote.

Mike

 

[maryj]

Err, yes. Jesus was crucified for all our sins, not just the ones that had already taken place. God isn’t linear in the way we are.

I don’t think I’ve seen ‘God’s side’ at an election in my lifetime. I’ve seen some parties a bit closer than others, but… You’d think if there was a ‘God’s side’ the Bishops would be jumping up and down telling you which party to vote for. Oh well.
Mike quote

Very democratic way of taking words and making them say something they didn’t. I think I saw some people on t.v. this week that did the same thing to something the pope said. Yes VERY democratic.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Nevertheless, the government doesn’t send anybody to the abortion clinic (they just currently don’t stop people from going). They do send people to fight wars. We can stop people having abortions without changing the government. We can’t change foreign policy without changing the government.

All things to bear in mind when you cast your vote.

Mike

Everyone in the U.S. military is a volunteer. Conscription (i.e., the draft, for the folks in Rio Linda) was abolished several decades ago.

 

[MikeWM]

Everyone in the U.S. military is a volunteer. Conscription (i.e., the draft, for the folks in Rio Linda) was abolished several decades ago.

Of course. That doesn’t make the government any less responsible for whether they send them into a war or not, and it doesn’t change the fact that the only way to change whether they are sent to war or not is to change the government.

Mike

 

[maryj]

Momentary hi-jack… What do people join the military to do??? I’m fairly certain they are pretty sure being in the military that they might end up fighting a war, fairly certain as a matter of fact… back to your regularily scheduled program

 

[MikeWM]

Momentary hi-jack… What do people join the military to do??? I’m fairly certain they are pretty sure being in the military that they might end up fighting a war,

But most (eg. the rush to join after 9/11) do so to protect their country and because they want to defend it. They expect to go to war only when absolutely necessary (as, indeed, Just War doctrine provides). The current US government certainly has not persued a policy of only going to war when absolutely necessary.

Mike

 

[Al_Masetti]

But most (eg. the rush to join after 9/11) do so to protect their country and because they want to defend it. They expect to go to war only when absolutely necessary (as, indeed, Just War doctrine provides). The current US government certainly has not persued a policy of only going to war when absolutely necessary.

Mike

Mike, Mike, Mike …

Every job has its essential elements.

People do NOT join the police force because they happen to like eating doughnuts.

People do NOT join the military because of the spiffy dress uniforms and the Fourth of July Independence Day parades. Or because the equipment makes really loud noises. Or that they enjoy “camping out”.

Those are NOT the essential elements of being in the police or in the military.

Protecting the country … nice abstraction.

How hypothetical.

How, precisely, does one “defend the country”.

The military is not renown for its academic debating strengths. So, people do NOT join the military to learn the arts and skills of debating team.

Unfortunately, the essentials have some gritty details to them.

And everyone who signs up knows that.

Which is why, also, people re-enlist when their first tours are up.

 

[vern_humphrey]

But most (eg. the rush to join after 9/11) do so to protect their country and because they want to defend it. They expect to go to war only when absolutely necessary (as, indeed, Just War doctrine provides). The current US government certainly has not persued a policy of only going to war when absolutely necessary.

Mike

And you make that pronouncement based on your own vast military experience, do you?

 

[MikeWM]

And you make that pronouncement based on your own vast military experience, do you?

Which part?

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

Mike, Mike, Mike …

Every job has its essential elements.

People do NOT join the police force because they happen to like eating doughnuts.

People do NOT join the military because of the spiffy dress uniforms and the Fourth of July Independence Day parades. Or because the equipment makes really loud noises. Or that they enjoy “camping out”.

Those are NOT the essential elements of being in the police or in the military.

Protecting the country … nice abstraction.

How hypothetical.

How, precisely, does one “defend the country”.

The military is not renown for its academic debating strengths. So, people do NOT join the military to learn the arts and skills of debating team.

Unfortunately, the essentials have some gritty details to them.

And everyone who signs up knows that.

Which is why, also, people re-enlist when their first tours are up.

All true. Nothing to do with sending people to go fight in unnecessary unjust wars, however. We’re not talking about electing the military. We’re talking about the election of the politicians who send them to do things.

Mike

 

[vern_humphrey]

Which part?

Mike

Aren’t you the guy who claims that in Luke, 22,36 Jesus tells the Apostles to sell their clothes to buy the word of God?

I’d say this was in character with the rest of your pronouncements.

 

[MikeWM]

Aren’t you the guy who claims that in Luke, 22,36 Jesus tells the Apostles to sell their clothes to buy the word of God?

Reopening arguments from other threads is against the forum rules. I’m sure you already know that Vern.

I’d say this was in character with the rest of your pronouncements.

Unless you explain what you mean, we will never know.

Mike

 

[vern_humphrey]

Reopening arguments from other threads is against the forum rules. I’m sure you already know that Vern.

Goes to the credibiliy of the witness, your honor.

Unless you explain what you mean, we will never know.

Mike

I mean that you have neither training nor experience to make judgements in this case.

 

[MikeWM]

Goes to the credibiliy of the witness, your honor.

They’re not my rules. Blame the moderators, not me.

I mean that you have neither training nor experience to make judgements in this case.

I only said two things (I still don’t know which you’re objecting to):

• ‘The current US government certainly has not persued a policy of only going to war when absolutely necessary.’ I stand by that statement.
• ‘most (eg. the rush to join after 9/11) do so to protect their country and because they want to defend it. They expect to go to war only when absolutely necessary’ I stand by that too. As the alternative is that people join the military to want to go and kill people in wars that shouldn’t be fought in the first place - well, no, I’m not going to believe that. I’ve got a higher opinion of people than that. I’m not a fan of the military, but I don’t think they are made up of people who want to murder people in unjust wars.

Mike

 

[vern_humphrey]

I only said two things (I still don’t know which you’re objecting to):

• ‘The current US government certainly has not persued a policy of only going to war when absolutely necessary.’ I stand by that statement.

Which means nothing, since you have no training or experience that would allow you to make such a judgement.

• ‘most (eg. the rush to join after 9/11) do so to protect their country and because they want to defend it. They expect to go to war only when absolutely necessary’ I stand by that too. As the alternative is that people join the military to want to go and kill people in wars that shouldn’t be fought in the first place - well, no, I’m not going to believe that. I’ve got a higher opinion of people than that. I’m not a fan of the military, but I don’t think they are made up of people who want to murder people in unjust wars.

Mike

Which, aside from being a smarmy remark, again shows you lack training and exertise in these matters.

 

[MikeWM]

Which means nothing, since you have no training or experience that would allow you to make such a judgement.

I’m a member of the Catholic Church. Nothing else needed to see if my conscience and my knowledge of Church teaching gives me a strong opinion whether a war is just or not.

Which, aside from being a smarmy remark, again shows you lack training and exertise in these matters.

I’m not in the military and I have never been, no indeed. I still think I can make the statement

‘I don’t think [the military is] made up of people who want to murder people in unjust wars.’

however. I certainly hope it is the case.

I’m leaving it there, we’re way off-topic.

Mike

 

[Al_Masetti]

All true. Nothing to do with sending people to go fight in unnecessary unjust wars, however. We’re not talking about electing the military. We’re talking about the election of the politicians who send them to do things.

Mike

Mike,

If there was an unnecessary and/ or unjust war going on, no one would join the military.

The military has to remake itself every two or three years. Because of the length of enlistments. And yet, the military is making their recruitment goals AND is more than making the numbers on re-enlistments.

If there was an unjust war going on, the numbers of enlistments and re-enlistments would totally dry up.

Consider also that the skills needed today preclude all but the most highly qualified people. They must be able to endure harsh physical conditions AND work with a variety of high-tech weaponry. Ya gotta be able to “hump through the boonies” AND work a GPS computer link. Both sets of skills. Not just one. All branches of the military need very saavy people AND they are getting those people.

If we were in an unnecessary and/or unjust war, the military would not be getting the numbers.

 

[MikeWM]

If there was an unnecessary and/ or unjust war going on, no one would join the military.

That assumes people are fully aware of all the facts. We know very well that there is a large number of people who even now believe Iraq was behind 9/11.

Mike