Mental Illness & Spirituality

[slinky1882]

reen12:

Hi, slinky1882,

“And on the second group you mentioned, could you give it a stab???” quote, slinky1882

OK. There are some individuals who seem to have
no conscience. Thank God I’ve never met such an
individual, to my knowledge. But I’ve noticed that
when some awful deed is committed and a
photo of the individual is shown on TV, I often
note to myself, “From that person’s eyes, I
would never have guessed him/her to be capable
of such an act.”

And, yes, as to your point about the “barrier” being
able to be seen, I think that’s true in a lot of
instances.

And a big “yes” on reading body language.
Between reading such language, noticing
a person’s eyes, and being super-sensitive to
the timbre and volume of people’s voices…
I find two hours socializing my “max.”
Maureen

Maureen,
Ahhh, the second group I would classify roughly as amoral, and I have had the disfortune to meet such individuals. You are blessed to never have met one in your memory. The immoral conscience is dying. The amoral conscience is dead (and can only be revived by Grace). In those cases, I am glad for the wall that conceals the damage and grave evil wrought. I find looking into those eyes like looking into a black hole. Thanks and God Bless.

P.S. Alright someone who knows that “timbre” is (coming from a musician for years in school) .

 

[coralewisjr]

reen12:

Hi, coralewisjr,

"Sure, despair (I went through that while experiencing suicidal temptations) isn’t the same as delusions or hallucinations…but it’s still really bad."quote, coralewisjr

Really bad. It reminds me of
people who have been in the trenches, cold,
soaking wet, dazed, possibly having pneumonia,
with noise and dark and mud…trying to ‘explain’
that experience to those who have not been there.

Oh, well.

reen12

I understand. I’ve read books about the Nazi Holocaust, and a Catholic prisoner of war during the Vietnam conflict, and a few other books about grisly stuff like that, including the current abortion holocaust. It’s hard to describe something like that to people like me who live in American luxury: a roof over my head, running water, a working microwave, oven and fridge, health insurance…I think you get the picture. Thanks for helping me count my blessings!! God bless you.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[coralewisjr]

slinky1882:

Thank you for your reponse coralewisjr . The question was open ended but addressed to reen12 as related to Pope Benedict XVI. I have variable hearing loss (meaning depending on the time stress, other factors, my hearing ability increases and decreases.) so I am forced to use my eyes more than a person with normal hearing does. With practice and real attempts to understand the person, I pick up on body language better. As a mart of fact when I picked up a book on ASL (American Sign Langauge), deaf people often see indivudlas with normal hearing “hearing impaired” as in the sense that one can *over *rely on the sense of hearing and miss the body language. Thanks again for your response and God Bless.

That’s fascinating! I think that when we humans are lacking in something, God supplies us with the necessary skills to communicate with Him and others. Blind people have Braille and sign language. Deaf people have lights and body language. Mentally abnormal people (like me) have other gifts. Mine are a love of learning, prayer, bringing people to God, cheering people up, being a confidante, compassion coming from past sufferings, and more. I tend to think about certain things a lot and when I overanalyze, I can get depressed…but sometimes God slips me good ideas and/or insights. As long as they make sense, it’s fun to share them with others.

reen12, what you said about anger makes perfect sense. Thanks!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[reen12]

Hi, coralewisjr,

“Thanks for helping me count my blessings!! God bless you.”
quote, caralewisjr

Oh my gosh, coralewisjr, I meant my post the other
way around!

I was saying that you have been “in the trenches”,
if you have suffered depression.

And that it may be difficult for *you *to describe that
experience to another person.

Please accept my aplology for my lack of
clarity.

The fact that my muddled reply encouraged you
to count your blessings, was a good thing,
anyway.

God bless you!
reen12

 

[slinky1882]

coralewisjr:

That’s fascinating! I think that when we humans are lacking in something, God supplies us with the necessary skills to communicate with Him and others. Blind people have Braille and sign language. Deaf people have lights and body language. Mentally abnormal people (like me) have other gifts. Mine are a love of learning, prayer, bringing people to God, cheering people up, being a confidante, compassion coming from past sufferings, and more. I tend to think about certain things a lot and when I overanalyze, I can get depressed…but sometimes God slips me good ideas and/or insights. As long as they make sense, it’s fun to share them with others.

reen12, what you said about anger makes perfect sense. Thanks!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

Corinne,
Yes, God definitely dispenses Grace as needed. When I was young, I held to the tenet that God never gives any more than we can handle. I believed that God never overloaded us in ANY faculty. But in high school and college, I was faced with new situations like depression, mental instability, drug and alcohol addictions and ultimately suicide. I cannot explain the experience of holding a best gal pal crying and completely breaking down who has recently slit her wrists out of depression and is demoralized into thinking an abortion was the only option after neither of the possible fathers would claim the child as their own. As a ray of hope though, I can remember reading the poetry and there were always lines that did not mesh exactly within the lines. I would ask her, and she had no idea where they came from. I could see rays from God attempting to penetrate the darkness that had enveloped her. This is but one experience that forced me to modify to “God never gives us more than we can handle, but He Loves to push the limits”. I am not sure if tha makes sense, but I realized that for some reason God may allow an individual’s faculties to be overwhelmed out of Love (I know that may seem strange). I have deemed the above statement of moderation applies to the soul. God will not overload the capabilities of the person’s soul but may the individual faculties (i.e. physical, mental, emotional spiritual). Thanks and God Bless.

 

[coralewisjr]

slinky1882:

Corinne,
Yes, God definitely dispenses Grace as needed. When I was young, I held to the tenet that God never gives any more than we can handle. I believed that God never overloaded us in ANY faculty. But in high school and college, I was faced with new situations like depression, mental instability, drug and alcohol addictions and ultimately suicide. I cannot explain the experience of holding a best gal pal crying and completely breaking down who has recently slit her wrists out of depression and is demoralized into thinking an abortion was the only option after neither of the possible fathers would claim the child as their own. As a ray of hope though, I can remember reading the poetry and there were always lines that did not mesh exactly within the lines. I would ask her, and she had no idea where they came from. I could see rays from God attempting to penetrate the darkness that had enveloped her. This is but one experience that forced me to modify to “God never gives us more than we can handle, but He Loves to push the limits”. I am not sure if tha makes sense, but I realized that for some reason God may allow an individual’s faculties to be overwhelmed out of Love (I know that may seem strange). I have deemed the above statement of moderation applies to the soul. God will not overload the capabilities of the person’s soul but may the individual faculties (i.e. physical, mental, emotional spiritual). Thanks and God Bless.

I like how you changed that common phrase! I think that in situations like your friend’s, God sends friends like you to pray for them and help them through the hard times. I might not be here right now if not for former friends, current friends and family, and my DH to help me through hard times. Also, let’s thank God for Catholic and other Christian charities which help women through “unplanned” pregnancies (I say unplanned because after listening to the tape “Contraception Why Not”, the phrase “unplanned pregnancy” doesn’t make sense anymore) and show them the alternatives to abortion like adoption and raising children.

reen12, I forgive you. Anything to make me count my blessings more often!!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[slinky1882]

coralewisjr:

I like how you changed that common phrase! I think that in situations like your friend’s, God sends friends like you to pray for them and help them through the hard times. I might not be here right now if not for former friends, current friends and family, and my DH to help me through hard times. Also, let’s thank God for Catholic and other Christian charities which help women through “unplanned” pregnancies (I say unplanned because after listening to the tape “Contraception Why Not”, the phrase “unplanned pregnancy” doesn’t make sense anymore) and show them the alternatives to abortion like adoption and raising children.

reen12, I forgive you. Anything to make me count my blessings more often!!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

Corinne,
We should definately thank Catholic and other Christian charities which help women through "unplanner " pregnancies. Many of is would not be here without help from others. And I have a question along those lines and the topic of this thread.

An individual that I know of once told a story of how they had an adverse medical reaction. The medication literally drove the person into psychosis and the person harmed themself. Soon after, the medication wore off after emergency medical intervention, and the individual decided to go to Confession shortly thereafter. The person said the priest asked if they were truly sorry for what the hand done. This person was unable to answer this question fully because they said that although they remembered their thoughts and “seeing” and “feeling” everything that happened, the individual had no idea how the thoughts and actions led to where they did. The hardest part going from stable to instable back to stable for the person was trying to understand what had happened. Has anyone had an experience that related to this of trying to figure out what happened??? What is it like to go between stable and unstable and back??? Do you have any pearls of wisdom that I can share??? Thanks and God Bless.

 

[reen12]

Hi, slinky1882,

With reference to your question in the above post,

I offer the following thoughts, keeping in mind that

I am a laywoman, with no formal training in psychology.

I have, however, read at least 15,000 pages in

various areas of psychology, and have had the

experience, briefly, of “checking out” of the

rational state.

With a person under terrific psychological pressure,

caused by life experience, rather than a biological

condition [e.g., schizophrenia], a break can occur,

based on the following “model”:

O-----> Parent

O------> Adult-Rational

O------> Child

The Parent contains all the shoulds, musts, ought to’s and dont’s

The Adult-Rational is that part that weighs and evaluates “information”

The Child is the creative element, but is not “rational”…it cannot weigh evidence

If things work well for the developing human being, the Adult-Rational

finds that the information stored in the Parent is congruent with his/her

own maturing experience, and this information is a tremendous help in living life.

[Parent can be thought of as information “stored” from figures in the child’s

enviromnemt…parents, teachers, relatives, religious figures…] The “information”

can be more than verbal: it can be facial expression, body-language, tone of voice etc.

For example: a warm and loving response to the child’s effort at finger painting,

is “stored”; unfortunately, a critical “look at the mess you made” or "that

doesn’t look like a flower to me" can also be “stored.”

The ideal is for the above “circles” to remain “disjoint”. The Adult-Rational can

then consult the Parent, or draw on the interest, enthusiam and natural curiosity of

the Child to add wonder and loveliness to life. As someone wrote: the Child

provides the “want to” and the Adult/Rational provides the “how-to”, the skills,

to build a kite, or a canoe, compose music, paint a picture *etc.

*OK. What happens when the circles are not “disjoint” and the Parent is

able to “intrude” into the Adult/Rational sphere, uninvited, as it were?

It partially “knocks out” the rational. The result? Anxiety, guilt, etc.

If the Child, who is unable to reason, intrudes, it partially “knocks-out”

Adult-Rational thinking and “unreasonable” behavior may ensue.

If the Child totally intrudes, rationality can be entirely lost, and a

“break” may occur.

That’s what happened to me. The Adult-Rational was overwhelmed

by the Parent, and the rational gave way under the weight, leaving

a terrified “Child” to deal with the “Parent”.

Medication tranquillized the whole person, so that Adult-Rational

could regain ascendency. The “safety” of the hospital environment

calmed the fears of the “Child” since medical personel brought a

sense of “order” back into the “Child’s” world. Adult responsibilites

were kept to the minimum…no doing the bills, preparing meals,

having to converse…

The whole thing was enormously draining. Dazed, covers it pretty

well.

There are different models that could convey what happens. The

one I’m employing is the one I found most useful in understanding

my own experience.

It is a *daily *struggle for me to keep Adult-Rational “engaged.”

Rest, medication and a sense of humor helps, along with the

love and support of my family. When we have family picnics

that last for hours, all understand that, after two hours,

I go take a nap. Fatigue, to me, is the great enemy. It

makes it more difficult to keep the Adult on the job.

Thank God for family. I love them and they love me back.

God bless,

Maureen

PS: I saw your post earlier today. Instead

of replying at that time, I took a much-needed nap.

There is a self-discipline that any type of illness requires,

I think, to function as best we can.

 

[slinky1882]

Maureen,

Thanks for replying to my qeustion and for taking care of yourself. Yes, fatigue can be a real drain, and everyone requires self-discipline whether they adhere to it or not. But I do have one question related to your post. Why is the Child terrified of the Parent in the absence of the Adult-Rational??? In relation to what I asked above, where does the person’s decision to harm themself come from??? I am going to guess from your explanation that is comes from the Child under the given model, correct??? Thanks and God Bless.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

APOLOGIES

---

---

I have put a post into this thread, but will be absent from my desk more of less for the next 48 hours, after which I will return to Catholic Answers Forum and endeavour to catch up with any thread I may have started or threads where I may have contributed a post to catch up with happenings, as well as new posts and threads in the various forums…………or such is my plan!

I apologize for this necessity.

Regards, Barb smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/983.gif – Bethany, South Australia

Mon9.5.05 8.37pm smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_6_6v.gif

 

[coralewisjr]

slinky1882:

The hardest part going from stable to instable back to stable for the person was trying to understand what had happened. Has anyone had an experience that related to this of trying to figure out what happened??? What is it like to go between stable and unstable and back??? Do you have any pearls of wisdom that I can share??? Thanks and God Bless.

My experience probably wasn’t as bad as your friend’s, but I went through something like that during part of my senior year in high school. I lost my computer work-study job because I stopped working and preferred to sit in the computer people’s office instead of going and being sociable and doing homework. My grades fell; this is abnormal for me because I usually get As and Bs (along with a C every now and then). I had two delusions and I announced them to everyone. For example, I thought I was psychic so some girls at my high school would ask me what life was going to be like for them in so many years. I just made up an answer, even though I didn’t know the girls well. Eventually the school made my parents get me some mental help (they thought that I was a “danger to myself and others”, i.e. suicidal…I wasn’t but I’m glad I got the help) and after that happened, I was allowed to go back to school. I was haunted by memories from that time for months and I saw a few counselors who tried to help me “get over” it all. I struggled with a lot of guilt. I didn’t know of I was to blame or if my diagnosis (bipolar disorder) was, so I blamed myself and that made me more depressed. I don’t remember going to Confession during this time period so I can’t tell you about that. I’m aware, as is reen12, that sleep is ESSENTIAL to the “crazy” person. If I don’t get enough sleep, I get grouchy and I start worrying that I’ll be hypomanic or manic, which is worse. Hopefully God and DH will help me figure out a way to get enough sleep to let me function well after our child is born!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[coralewisjr]

Hello,
I noticed that at least two other posters in this thread have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I read Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison’s book, “An Unquiet Mind,” a few years ago and I recommend it to EVERYONE who has that diagnosis or just wants to understand the disorder. Dr. Jamison is a psychologist and she suffers from bipolar, too. God bless you!!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[orange_blossoms]

YES, OF COURSE, people who suffer from mental illnesses can lead a spiritual life…

Interesting to see how many of you posted that you suffer from bipolar disorder…I, too, suffer from bipolar disorder, and if anything, my spiritual faith has grown even stronger during the course of my illness. I am now fully stabilized on medication and fully recovered, all of which I give credit to God for helping me through a very difficult time in my life. Also, before, I had no idea what direction my life would be heading in…now I plan to get my master’s degree in Mental Health Counseling…again, God’s planning and timing is perfect; He has really guided and helped me through life and I KNOW and BELIEVE He will continue to do so.

orange_blossoms

 

[Maryam]

Hi all… I am a sufferer of severe Depression since age 11-12 and it has not been easy… At times I also suffer from a bit of ‘Scruples’ more in terms of what I call “proper worship etiquette mania”. I am not going to get into what I think, but, suffice it to say that sometimes I cannot focus in my prayers because I am always finding something critical in the manner I worship…from the position in which I am praying… to the direction in which my small altar is facing. It can drive me nuts at times.

My depression has crippled me socially in that I cannot work because sometimes being around others daily for more than 8 hours wears on me and I feel I have to flee from the inner negative monologues my mind gets bombarded with…

Through God’s grace I met a wonderful man who accepts my struggle with depression, my relationship with God and who pushes me gently with much care in helping me to cope better with my depression. I met him half a year ago during one of those days that I PUSH myself to venture outside to take a LONG walk.

I could not have a relationship with someone that does not accept my struggles with depression, that cannot relate to my faith or who thinks that all I have to do is be more “positive”… grrrrr… I don’t like the term “be more positive” and everytime someone says this to me I feel like I want to give them a good wack on the nose. lol

I don’t know if this person is the “ONE”…but, he brings with him a feeling I love… and that is a sense of “peace” around him.

Whether I am in a relationship or not… can go out or not… Depression severe or light…Whether I am angry with God on a bad day, in ascetic mode where I just want the company of books or am going through a ‘hyper’ phase where all I can talk about to friends/family is God and try to buy out the entire religious items inventory at my local Catholic store (if you see my bedroom and all the Catholic statues, holy cards, books and ROSARIES I have bought from being in ‘hyper’ mode it will surprise ya… lol).

The one CONSTANT in my life is never going a day without contemplating God. I can say with 100% assurance, that I never forget to think about God even for one day… whether I contemplate HIM for 5 minutes or a few hours.

The past few years I have come to the opinion, that those of us who suffer from severe mental illness are ‘touched by God’… Constant suffering will make you stronger and more empathetic to suffering of others. This I believe with ALL my heart.

I look at my life and it tears me up inside at times at how alot of my young adult years have been lost to my depression, BUT, something deep inside of me always feels that this is all a “training” exercise for what God has planned for me according to his will later on. I don’t know the ‘specifics’ of this plan… but, we all are part of God’s plan… there’s no escaping it.

I don’t know what else to say… Peace to all in this thread.

God bless

 

[reen12]

Dear Maryam,

I’m so glad that you posted to this thread.

There are many, many of us out here who
deal with depression, or bipolar, or anxiety, and it is good
to see all of the sharing that has been done on this thread.

Approaching age 60, *, I can say
from experience that nothing that I have suffered
in life was “wasted.” God has used that suffering
to make me acutely aware of the suffering of others…
to strip away pride, arrogance, self-sufficiency…not
all, surely, but a good deal of it…
and it has all been a gift.

[It’s hard to think of myself as a master of all I
survey, when I am so ‘broken.’]

As an aside, do you think those TV commercials
that use phrases like “Take control!” or:
“Be in *charge *of you life!” are as funny as I
think they are?? The strutting involved!
The overweening *pride *of it all! It’s ludicrous.

I just wanted to say to you that God will care
for you and make clearer, with each passing year,
what work He has for you to do. And He will
make use of your suffering, in such marvelous
ways.

Those of us who endure depression, bipolar,
anxiety, or other serious medical illness, have
the opportunity to become “Wounded Healers.”
God bless you,
reen12*

 

[reen12]

Hi, slinky1882,

I got involved in another thread last night, so I’m sorry
for the delay in responding to your question:

“Why is the Child terrified of the Parent in the absence of the Adult-Rational???” quote, slinky1882

[To other thread participants: to understand how I’m using the words “Child” and “Adult/Rational”, please see post #88 in this thread.]

I believe that in the most ideal situation, when
‘critical’ thoughts about self arise, the Adult/Rational
evaluates same and decides if this self-criticism
is warranted or not. The person, in a sense,
“consults” the Parent, and assesses whether the
material available is “rational” or “distorted.”

If rational, the self-criticism is warrented, and
the individual tries, then, to comform behavior to
these “undistorted” values. In terms of faith,
he/she repents, and makes a “firm purpose of
amendment.”

What happens when some material in the Parent
is distorted,* and* the Parent overwhelms the
critical faculty of the Adult/Rational? [due to weak
ego-strength?]

The Child, with no Adult/Rational to intercede
with the critical Parent…to defend the Child,
in some sense…has no recourse but to be
subject to pain, guilt, worthlessness, fear…
with nowhere to turn, so to speak.
Not a pretty picture.

I think this has to be experienced to comprehend,
fully, the existential reality of same.

---

As to self-injury, I have little knowledge in that area,
so would be “at-sea” in trying to give you any
thoughts on that reality.
Hope this explanation was clear, slinky1882.
God Bless,
Maureen

 

[slinky1882]

coralewisjr:

My experience probably wasn’t as bad as your friend’s, but I went through something like that during part of my senior year in high school. I lost my computer work-study job because I stopped working and preferred to sit in the computer people’s office instead of going and being sociable and doing homework. My grades fell; this is abnormal for me because I usually get As and Bs (along with a C every now and then). I had two delusions and I announced them to everyone. For example, I thought I was psychic so some girls at my high school would ask me what life was going to be like for them in so many years. I just made up an answer, even though I didn’t know the girls well. Eventually the school made my parents get me some mental help (they thought that I was a “danger to myself and others”, i.e. suicidal…I wasn’t but I’m glad I got the help) and after that happened, I was allowed to go back to school. I was haunted by memories from that time for months and I saw a few counselors who tried to help me “get over” it all. I struggled with a lot of guilt. I didn’t know of I was to blame or if my diagnosis (bipolar disorder) was, so I blamed myself and that made me more depressed. I don’t remember going to Confession during this time period so I can’t tell you about that. I’m aware, as is reen12, that sleep is ESSENTIAL to the “crazy” person. If I don’t get enough sleep, I get grouchy and I start worrying that I’ll be hypomanic or manic, which is worse. Hopefully God and DH will help me figure out a way to get enough sleep to let me function well after our child is born!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

Hey Corinne,
Sleep is essential to everyone, and I can remember being in the hospital. And in the sense of sleep, a hospital is one of the worst places to be (constantly woken up, labs early in the morning, other patients screaming out in pain, waiting for night meds, etc.). I know that as I struggle with sleep say for one night becuase of a kidney stone, the next day by around 36 hours awake, I can tell my capabilities are trailing off. I have learned that I can go roughly 60 hours without sleep, but by the end, it takes ALL of my energy to focus to any appreciable extent. Thanks and God Bless.

 

[quintin_gomes]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_102.gif

Hi Alan…Barb online…This poll has had 47 views but it seems to date anyway that only those who suffer a mental illness are contributing… and if this continues for the 30 days of this Poll it will be a statement in itself.

What you have to say, Alan, about the treatment of psychiatric patients is very true…in fact there is not much I can add to it. I think every last one of us have tales to tell of being incarcerated in a psychiatric ward/hospital which are quite, even extremely, harrowing to say the least. We have also harrowing tales to tell of psychiatrists.
T hanks very much for the (name removed by moderator)ut Alan…I think you are stating our case well, clearly and obviously coming from hands on knowledge and experience and unafraid to speak out.
You write, Alan, in a conversational flow, easy to read . I hope that this Board is not your only venue for stating our case!

Onyer Mate! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_1.gif

Regards
Barb
Bethany, Sth Aust
Mon. 18.4.04
…0742hrs.

 

[slinky1882]

reen12:

Hi, slinky1882,

I got involved in another thread last night, so I’m sorry
for the delay in responding to your question:

“Why is the Child terrified of the Parent in the absence of the Adult-Rational???” quote, slinky1882

[To other thread participants: to understand how I’m using the words “Child” and “Adult/Rational”, please see post #88 in this thread.]

I believe that in the most ideal situation, when
‘critical’ thoughts about self arise, the Adult/Rational
evaluates same and decides if this self-criticism
is warranted or not. The person, in a sense,
“consults” the Parent, and assesses whether the
material available is “rational” or “distorted.”

If rational, the self-criticism is warrented, and
the individual tries, then, to comform behavior to
these “undistorted” values. In terms of faith,
he/she repents, and makes a “firm purpose of
amendment.”

What happens when some material in the Parent
is distorted,* and* the Parent overwhelms the
critical faculty of the Adult/Rational? [due to weak
ego-strength?]

The Child, with no Adult/Rational to intercede
with the critical Parent…to defend the Child,
in some sense…has no recourse but to be
subject to pain, guilt, worthlessness, fear…
with nowhere to turn, so to speak.
Not a pretty picture.

I think this has to be experienced to comprehend,
fully, the existential reality of same.

---

As to self-injury, I have little knowledge in that area,
so would be “at-sea” in trying to give you any
thoughts on that reality.
Hope this explanation was clear, slinky1882.
God Bless,
Maureen

Maureen,
Thank you and that is perfectly alright on the delay. Even I right now am spacing replies and having trouble finding old posts :whacky: with my summer semester beginning with a bang. Might I throw out a curveball, I believe the self-injury comes out of the Parent section and that the Child is literally scared to death at that point. From the way you described the three, I see the Adult Rational sitting on the seat of judgement with the Child (Mercy) on the left and the Parent (Justice) on the right. In despair, the Parent rules and metts out punishment and the Child is overwhelmed at once into shock. However, if the Child is able to weep, the trial will pass to another day. Does that make any sense??? Thanks and God Bless.

 

[slinky1882]

Maureen

I had one other question as I cannot find the thread you originally put this in, and I am not sure if you want to answer this here. But I remember a post saying that you had chosen sola fide over sola gratia (sp???), correct??? I am curious why you chose something that requires an action were a Free Gift??? Curious, and I apologize if I misunderstood your post. Thanks and God Bless.