MERGED: Assumption of Mary on a Monday/Obligation?

[Chatter163]

I always find it rather peculiar that these so-called traditional groups are often in disobedience.

Wow, what an ignorant and immature statement. The FSSP and ICRSS follow the liturgical books and kalendar, which follow the old system. That is not disobedience; it is what they are supposed to do.

(An anomaly of the 1962 kalendar is that the Immaculate Conception is observed on a Sunday, when it falls on that day.)

 

[jayk15]

Hmm. Here in South Africa, August 15 is still a holy day of obligation even if it is on a Saturday or Monday. We only have three HDO a year besides Sundays. I wonder if the Mass on Sunday evening will fill the obligation for the Sunday and the Assumption

 

[Spirithound]

This is why I love the FSSP. They celebrate the Holydays on the correct date and still give lip service to the Bishops. They (so far) have held their ground on these points. So I’ll be celebrating with them next Monday evening at 7:30 pm. A High Mass!

They do more than pay lipservice. The FSSP is in full communion with Rome, and is obedient to the bishops. However, they follow the older calendar.

 

[OraLabora]

The feast of the Assumption is not a holy day of obligation in Canada.

 

[OraLabora]

This is why I love the FSSP. They celebrate the Holydays on the correct date and still give lip service to the Bishops. They (so far) have held their ground on these points. So I’ll be celebrating with them next Monday evening at 7:30 pm. A High Mass!

So do the Benedictines. Our monastery (celebrating an OF Mass) does not move the feast. They don’t need to. They are a cloistered monastic community with no outside obligations. These feasts have been moved, alas, in response to the trends of secular society.

I’m sure many other communities of religious don’t move these feasts on their calendars as well.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I always find it rather peculiar that these so-called traditional groups are often in disobedience.

I don’t see how the FSSP are in disobedience. There is nothing that compels them to not celebrate a Holy Day on its traditional day.

 

[ConstantineTG]

This is why I love the FSSP. They celebrate the Holydays on the correct date and still give lip service to the Bishops. They (so far) have held their ground on these points. So I’ll be celebrating with them next Monday evening at 7:30 pm. A High Mass!

Wow, are you berating the priestly society you hold so dear? Or are you just delusional that you think any traditional society lock in step with the Local Ordinary and the Pope are pretenders and liars?

I’m far from a traditionalist but I respect the FSSP and admire them so much. I know for a fact that they are obedient to the Bishop and not merely paying lip service.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Quite! Moveable feasts are those that do not fall on particular dates, e.g. Easter Sunday and those that tend to depend on Easter Sunday such as Ash Wednesday or Pentecost.

However, you spoke of the Assumption as being a moveable feast in the sense that it cannot be moved from the 15th. It can, of course, be so moved.

Uh I suggest you reread my post. I implied no such thing.

Me:

That’s not what the OP is asking.** (S)he’s asking whether the Feast is transfered to the preceding Sunday (as is the case with many Holy Days in the United States such as the Epiphany) or whether the obligation is abrogated entirely**. If it is the former then we’d expect the readings and propers to reflect the Assumption rather than those of the 19th Sunday in Ordinary Time (as the actual feast has been transfered). If it is the latter then we’d expect the readings and propers to reflect the 19th Sunday in Ordinary Time, tomorrow’s would reflect those of the Assumption BUT the faithful would not be obligated to attend.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I don’t see how the FSSP are in disobedience. There is nothing that compels them to not celebrate a Holy Day on its traditional day.

Then I must be labouring under a misunderstanding. I thought that the Church’s holydays of obligation were the same for both the extraordinary and ordinary form. Plus, I believe the post I was commenting on said the FSSP give lip service to the bishops.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Wow, what an ignorant and immature statement.

How typical of the poorly-formed statements made on these fora.

 

[dans0622]

Then I must be labouring under a misunderstanding. I thought that the Church’s holydays of obligation were the same for both the extraordinary and ordinary form. Plus, I believe the post I was commenting on said the FSSP give lip service to the bishops.

Hello Matthew,

I don’t know what the “lip service” comment means, either. But, I have had no experience of the FSSP being in disobedience. (I have no experience of other similar groups.)

The FSSP and similar societies have the right to observe the 1962 calendar in its entirety. The diocesan bishop does not have the right to insist that the FSSP (et al.) celebrate the Ascension on Sunday, for example.

Holy Days of Obligation are determined by canon law (and possibly modified by the bishops’ conference), however. You are right, therefore, that the days of obligation are the same for both “forms.” The time of their celebration can legitimately differ, however. So, it might happen that the FSSP parish would celebrate, e.g., the Ascension on the appropriate Thursday while the territorial parish up the street would celebrate it on the following Sunday. In either case, the faithful are going to fulfill their obligations.

Hope that makes sense.

Dan

 

[ConstantineTG]

Then I must be labouring under a misunderstanding. I thought that the Church’s holydays of obligation were the same for both the extraordinary and ordinary form. Plus, I believe the post I was commenting on said the FSSP give lip service to the bishops.

They’re celebrating the Feast Day on the proper day, they’re not making it a Holiday of Obligation. The two times I went to the FSSP parish I saw a similar thing on their bulletin where they explained that a certain day is the traditional feast day, clarified it wasn’t a day of obligation even for them, but they will celebrate the Feast Day anyway with a High Mass.

I do agree it was improper to say the FSSP are just giving lip service. They are examples of true traditionalism complete with obedience to the rightful authorities of the Church.

 

[bmonk]

We celebrate the Assumption on the proper day (August 15) also–it is simply the obligation to attend Mass that is abrograted.

Similarly, for several years after the local province (St. Paul, MN) moved the celebration to Sunday, our Abbey continued to celebrate Ascension on its proper Thursday, but it was difficult to explain to guests why we were not celebrating with the rest of the local Church, so eventually we did make the shift.

I agree that the Immaculate Conception is sometimes transferred to Monday (when Dec. 8th falls on Sunday), but that is not the usual practice of moving Holy Days of Obligation to a Sunday, but the opposite. Why I didn’t think of it, I guess.

And, as is the regular rule, when a feast day is transferred, the Obligation is not also transferred.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Holy Days of Obligation are determined by canon law (and possibly modified by the bishops’ conference), however. You are right, therefore, that the days of obligation are the same for both “forms.” The time of their celebration can legitimately differ, however. So, it might happen that the FSSP parish would celebrate, e.g., the Ascension on the appropriate Thursday while the territorial parish up the street would celebrate it on the following Sunday. In either case, the faithful are going to fulfill their obligations.

Hi Dan

I just want to check I’ve got this correct. Therefore, I’m going to use two examples. In England & Wales the Bishops’ Conference, with the Holy See’s recognitio, has removed the precept from the Epiphany. As I understand the Holy See directs that when this happens the Epiphany must be moved to the Sunday after 1st January. This year in England & Wales we celebrated the Epiphany on Sunday 2nd January.

Regarding the Assumption, it is a holy day of obligation here. Our Bishops’ Conference has decided, again with the recognitio of the Holy See, that if a holy day of obligation falls on a Saturday or Monday it is transferred to the Sunday. (In practice this applies to Ss. Peter & Paul, Assumption, and All Saints.) This year we will celebrate the Assumption on Sunday 14th August.

As the bishops of England & Wales have decreed this and the Holy See has confirmed their decision could the FSSP in England have celebrated the Epiphany this year on Thursday 6th January and the Assumption on Monday 15th August.

You see I always thought that those who celebrate in the extraordinary form had to follow the same holy days of obligation and on the same days.

Thanks

Matt

 

[dans0622]

…

As the bishops of England & Wales have decreed this and the Holy See has confirmed their decision could the FSSP in England have celebrated the Epiphany this year on Thursday 6th January and the Assumption on Monday 15th August.

You see I always thought that those who celebrate in the extraordinary form had to follow the same holy days of obligation and on the same days. …

Hello again,

The FSSP (et al.) are allowed to celebrate these feasts on their “traditional” days–an allowance has been made for those who observe the old calendar, when this sort of movement of feasts was not done. I know that I have seen a directive from “Ecclesia Dei” commission to this effect, although I can’t give you a link to it or a direct reference.

That being said, everyone does fulfill their obligations on the same day, no matter what form of Mass they frequent. In the cases you mention, the FSSP people would not be fulfilling the obligation on January 6, e.g., since there is none on that date. They’d fulfill it on the following Sunday, as everyone does. However, they would be celebrating the first Sunday after Epiphany, not the Epiphany…if that makes sense.

Dan

 

[paul11b]

Is this Monday August 15th a Holy Day of Obligation or is it not considered a Holy Day of Obligation this year since it falls on a Monday?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Is this Monday August 15th a Holy Day of Obligation or is it not considered a Holy Day of Obligation this year since it falls on a Monday?

Check your diocese website. It varies from diocese to diocese. In Canada the only Holidays of Obligation are January 1st and Christmas.

But as a Ukrainian Catholic, the Great Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos is what you would call an “obligation” for us.

 

[passus]

Abrogated in the USA.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Is this Monday August 15th a Holy Day of Obligation or is it not considered a Holy Day of Obligation this year since it falls on a Monday?

Not in the dioceses of the United States of America.

 

[chris62]

Solemnity of Assumption of the Virgin Mary*** IS ***a Holy Day of Obligation in Australia.