Mexico bishops launch 'the migrant is a gift' campaign on social media

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Can you name a time when the U.S. got so corrupt that inhabitants were storming the Canadian border en masse so much that Canadian military came to guard the border and detain and deport immigrants?

Let’s get one thing crystal clear. Corruption is the fault of those who choose to do corrupt things, not the people fleeing corruption.
 
You are confusing economic migrants with refugees again.

The US westward movement was a mass movement of economic migrants, who overwhelmed the native population. They moved West for opportunity, just like Mexicans move North.
 
blackforest said:
There’s no rationalization. Just simple facts. One way or another, these crops need harvested. If the migrant pool isn’t enough, they will need more laborers to step in. Loosening the immigration laws to allow a legal path to citizenship is the commonsense way to make this happen.
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No real facts in your scenario.
Seasonal work visas will meet the requirement,
The crops are getting picked and the pickers return home after the season with significant savings, a win win that doesn’t overburden the local schools and welfare for the rest of the year, outside the short picking season.
 
Theo520 said:
Maybe it’s “not following the rule of law” that is a fundamental challenge for both Mexico and Mexicans?
Change the behavior, don’t export it
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there are plenty of Mexicans that follow the law, just like there are plenty of Americans that don’t. Again, if you were in the shoes of many people seeking a future for their families y͏o͏u would probably be here illegally too. So not a good idea to judge them?
 
Gab123 said:
there are plenty of Mexicans that follow the law, just like there are plenty of Americans that don’t. Again, if you were in the shoes of many people seeking a future for their families y͏o͏u would probably be here illegally too. So not a good idea to judge them?
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So you are changing your story?
Just above you were the one bad mouthing the crime and corruption in Mexico.
 
Oh good grief. I feel like I’m talking in circles here.

Corruption leads to poverty. In this case extreme, living-in-shacks poverty. I know. I’ve visited many of those shacks with dirt floors. I’ve been served lunch in them. So the poor move for a better life. This really isn’t that confusing.

As soon as the Mexican immigrants start “overwhelming” us with smallpox blankets, boarding schools, Trail of Tears marches, periodic massacres against our unarmed women and children, and containment in special gringo reservations, then we can talk historical parallels with Westward expansion and the struggles of Native Americans. In the meantime, read up on Manifest Destiny, something that is NOT driving Mexicans and Central Americans to our borders.
 
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Make up your mind, do Mexicans follow the rule of law or not? If they don’t then you have a clear target on what to change in order to improve the lives of your prior neighbors.
  • Rampant corruption says to me that they don’t
  • Breaking US immigration laws says to me that they don’t
Also, stop making me responsible for providing new floors in Mexico, that is the responsibility of your old Government. I’m willing to help them help Mexicans, but stop demanding that I supplant their role, that approach doesn’t fix anything. Candidly, I think people in mexico are more than capable of producing cheap tile or cement floors, if they want to replace dirt floors.

If you want the US to overthrow the government, then be forth-rite about it. What I read instead from you is lamenting how bad it is there for some people and then demanding we must help by giving them jobs in the USA. You completely ignore Church teachings on subsidiarity, on what the middle class, upper class, and Govt in Mexico can or should do about their situation.

Serious question - Why aren’t you putting your social justice efforts into change at the source? Mexico is 80% Catholic, there should be ample support for making changes, if it’s really as bad as you say.

In the mean time, I’m focusing my efforts on the homeless, poor, and disadvantaged people that are my legal neighbors. I know I can have a positive impact in this area. I also know that attempting to import all the poor in the world to live in the US only causes more harm here without really changing anything.
 
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Sarcelle said:
Lofty words aside, we cannot help everyone. Our resources are limited. There are limits to what we can do.
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This is exactly what I believe and similar to what I’ve said before.

I understand what the Pope and Catholic leaders have said about helping immigrants.

I understand what the Bible says about helping the poor (especially Matthew 25:31–46 which talks about the Final Judgment and what’s going to happen to those who did and didn’t help the poor).

And I agree with it.

But it’s a question of limited resources and priorities.

I’d help a disabled veteran who needs help before I’d help somebody who’s here illegally.

And I’d let somebody who’s struggling keep a little more of their tax dollars before I’d help somebody who’s here illegally.

It’s easy to say, "Oh, in this land of plenty . . . " there’s plenty of money to help everyone. There’s not.
 
signit said:
I’d help a disabled veteran who needs help before I’d help somebody who’s here illegally.
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I’d help them both, but in different ways, Church teachings can be respected without enabling illegal activities IMHO.

The Vet needs whatever help he needs to re-enter our community as a functioning member. The illegal may need food, clothing, counseling on rule of law, and maybe even a bus ticket back home. My old appliances go to the vet to help him set up a new household,

I would help a legit and legal refugee as I would a vet. Someone accepted for immigration by the US who genuinely meets the refugee requirements needs our help and compassion so they too can become a functioning member of our community.
 
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Yes, I am aware. There are also people who want Texas to become an independent Nation.

There are interesting arguments on both sides.
 
Theo520 said:
Make up your mind, do Mexicans follow the rule of law or not? If they don’t then you have a clear target on what to change in order to improve the lives of your prior neighbors.
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I’m getting quite frustrated trying to walk you through this. The corrupt Mexicans in power drive out the poor, who in turn were created by the corruption. It’s not complicated.
Theo520 said:
Candidly, I think people in mexico are more than capable of producing cheap tile or cement floors, if they want to replace dirt floors
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Just World Theory rears its ugly head again.

You know nothing of poverty. I give up.

I will pray for you, however.
Theo520 said:
If you want the US to overthrow the government, then be forth-rite about it.
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To repeat my question, where on earth are you getting that idea?

There’s a vast gully of difference between wanting to change laws and wanting to overthrow the government.
Theo520 said:
Serious question - Why aren’t you putting your social justice efforts into change at the source? Mexico is 80% Catholic, there should be ample support for making changes, if it’s really as bad as you say.
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Serious answers - I’m not Mexican, (or Honduran, Nicaraguan, etc). I can’t vote as a citizen of these countries. I’m certainly not rich enough to buy off their officials.

The most I can do is advocate for change in U.S. foreign policy toward Mexico. I don’t mind that at all.

The USCCB emphasizes the two feet of social charity and social justice. They are not mutually exclusive or dichotomous concepts.

Charity addresses urgency, assisting the poor in desperate circumstances. The Scriptures unequivocally include “the foreigner” in this endeavor, and they do not distinguish between peoples’ state-constructed immigration status. :roll_eyes:
Theo520 said:
In the mean time, I’m focusing my efforts on the homeless, poor, and disadvantaged people that are my legal neighbors.
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"For I was hungry and you fed me . . . but only after checking your documents to make sure you were ‘my legal neighbor.’ "

File that one under “thing Jesus never said.”
 
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There are also a lot of people seeking to better the future of their families.

Take the Philippines and India for example. They export people who go and do jobs, both skilled and unskilled and they do in the most part obey the laws of the host country. I also know lots of Mexicans and Central Americans who also want a better future and they do it also legally. I saw quite a bit of Mexicans in Japan for example.

Why are people who break the law more deserving of being admitted to the US than those who have to wait a dozen years to enter legally?
 
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Mexicans are not the only one to have corrupt governments. Countries all over the world have desperately poor people who would love to go the US yet they have to endure years waiting to be admitted legally. Yet you propose that Mexicans get to circumvent the law and get a free pass to the US.

What makes Mexicans so deserving? By the way, Mexico is not a third world nation but a second world nation. There are poorer countries and even more desperate people who are underserved by their corrupt governments.
 
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Being an undocumented immigrant is a civil offense, not a criminal offense.
Sarcelle said:
Countries all over the world have desperately poor people who would love to go the US yet they have to enter years waiting to be admitted legally.
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That sounds terribly unjust. Do you think we should change our laws?
Sarcelle said:
What makes Mexicans so deserving? By the way, Mexico is not a third world nation but a second world nation.
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Would you please learn about the terms first, second, and third world? They don’t mean what you think they do and, for good reason, are falling out of use.

Mexico has a lot of assets, but rampant corruption leaves them concentrated in the hands of the rich.
 
I am an immigrant myself. One day a family member came into the US illegally. At 2 in the morning our house was surrounded by INS agents guns drawn. He was caught and promptly deported. I think it was this experience that gave me the impression that it was a criminal offense. I mean there were guns drawn for goodness sakes.

I agree with you. Our immigration laws badly need reforming.
 
blackforest said:
"For I was hungry and you fed me . . . but only after checking your documents to make sure you were ‘my legal neighbor.’ "

File that one under “thing Jesus never said.”
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But if you skip over the legal neighbor to help the illegal you have harmed three people. Plus you have done no good for either neighbor.
 
Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote:
“As a general rule, it is not a crime for a movable alien to remain in the United States.”
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We are fundamentally a country that believes in due process of law. Calling an immigrant “illegal” makes as much sense as calling someone awaiting trial a “criminal.”

I don’t refer to serial killers as “illegals” even though murder is illegal. Instead, I specify what they’ve done. That is why the correct terms are documented or undocumented, not “legal” and “illegal.”

To be sure, our government agencies routinely violate the Constitution. That’s why you can’t travel by air without government agents inspecting and/or running their hands all over your body. And that’s why INS treated your relative the way it did.
 
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