Michele Bachmann's [former] Church Says the Pope Is the Antichrist

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ahimsa
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ringil said:
“That part” is, well, what Catholic Faith is- it is THE PART.

Pelosi, Biden, and Kerry have views contrary to the Church on issues of Abortion and Gay Marriage (guess- gay marriage anyway- not sure). Nevertheless. They are Catholic- good or bad.

Evangelicals are not members of the Church thus they don’t live “like real Catholics”. They aren’t Catholic. They do not have any of the essence of the True Faith. They aren’t even a church- but a group of people gathered together with the appearance of a church.
Click to expand...
New International Version (©1984)
for whoever is not against us is for us.
Click to expand...
New International Version (©1984)
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Click to expand...
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Let me interject: I’ve been to TUCC and I’ve heard Rev. Wright preach. Others have heard snippets. I kn ow personally members of Rev. Wright’s family.

He’s not a racist. He also served two tours in the Navy as a corpsman connected to the Marines and is by no means anti-American. He is very critical of some things which occurred in American history. I’m not alone in this view, either. Nationally known theologians (who are not members but have attended Trinity) have stated that the good reverend is no racist.

So, let’s not talk as if what some folks believe is a done deal. I realize that this is not the thread to discuss Rev. Wright but please do not use him as a stalking horse.
Click to expand...
Do my lying eyes need to go to confession?
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Let me interject: I’ve been to TUCC and I’ve heard Rev. Wright preach. Others have heard snippets. I kn ow personally members of Rev. Wright’s family.

He’s not a racist. He also served two tours in the Navy as a corpsman connected to the Marines and is by no means anti-American. He is very critical of some things which occurred in American history. I’m not alone in this view, either. Nationally known theologians (who are not members but have attended Trinity) have stated that the good reverend is no racist.

So, let’s not talk as if what some folks believe is a done deal. I realize that this is not the thread to discuss Rev. Wright but please do not use him as a stalking horse.
Click to expand...
Videos of his sermons were widely available on the Internet so we don’t have to judge for snippets, we can judge for ourselves… . So just how can "not God bless America, God damn America, be considered anything but anti-American?
 
A more accurate headline on the Bachmann/WELS story:
Six days before Bachmann officially launched her presidential campaign last month, the Minnesota Republican and her family verbally requested to leave Salem Lutheran Church in Stillwater, Minn., which is part of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS).
Click to expand...
Synod spokesman Joel Hochmuth said Thursday (July 14) the Bachmanns had been members of Salem Lutheran for more than a decade, but had not attended the church for at least two years. They did not request a transfer to another congregation, he said.
…
Bill Donohue, president of the watchdog Catholic League, said he does not believe Bachmann is anti-Catholic, but that “it is not inappropriate to ask some pointed questions of Rep. Bachmann and her religion’s tenets.”

Hochmuth said in an interview the anti-papal doctrine is “not one of our driving views, and certainly not something that we preach from the pulpit.” Hochmuth said he doubts whether many members of WELS are aware of the doctrine, which dates to Protestant Reformer Martin Luther.

“As a confessional Lutheran church, we hold to the teachings of Martin Luther who himself maintained the papacy, and in turn the pope, has set himself up in place of Christ, and so is the anti-Christ,” Hochmuth said.
…
Hochmuth added that “we love and respect Catholic Christians … Yet we pray that they would come to see the errors of their church’s official doctrine that the pope is infallible and that no one can be saved outside of the Roman Catholic Church.”
Click to expand...
I doubt this is going to be a big issue for Bachmann’s presidential run, but I personally would have liked her to have addressed the issue of her relationship to WELS, Lutheranism (she was raised Lutheran; which denomination, I don’t know), and Christianity in general, in light of the “bad blood” that historically has existed between Protestants and Catholics. Perhaps she will do this at some future point.
 
SamH said:
Any evidence that WELS teaches Pope=Antichrist in Bachmann’s church?
Click to expand...
SamH said:
I guess that would be a no.
Click to expand...
hi sam. actually wels does officially teach this and you can find it on their web page. this isn’t restricted to a few members as it is found in their doctrinal statements.

wels.net/about-wels/doctrinal-statements/antichrist?page=0,7

something from the wels doctrinal statement to think about:
Therefore, even though the bishop of Rome had the primacy by divine right, yet since he defends godless services and doctrine conflicting with the Gospel, obedience is not due him; yea, it is necessary to resist him as Antichrist. The errors of the Pope are manifest and not trifling.
Click to expand...
like another poster pointed out, you are either with Christ’s Church or against Her.
Bachmann: Well that’s a false statement that was made, and I spoke with my pastor earlier today about that as well, and he was absolutely appalled that someone would put that out. It’s abhorrent, it’s religious bigotry. I love Catholics, I’m a Christian, and my church does not believe that the Pope is the Anti-Christ, that’s absolutely false.
Click to expand...
well, maybe she didn’t take the time to read what her church teaches and didn’t know, but i find it very hard to believe that her pastor didn’t know this. in fact i don’t believe it at all.
 
jen_fla said:
hi sam. actually wels does officially teach this and you can find it on their web page. this isn’t restricted to a few members as it is found in their doctrinal statements.

wels.net/about-wels/doctrinal-statements/antichrist?page=0,7

something from the wels doctrinal statement to think about:

like another poster pointed out, you are either with Christ’s Church or against Her.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly, it is still a part of the official Lutheran doctrine too.

Protestants denominations are like that.
Except for the liberal ones, which consider the very idea of the devil and evil incarnate as myth.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Surprisingly, it is still a part of the official Lutheran doctrine too.

Protestants denominations are like that.
Except for the liberal ones, which consider the very idea of the devil and evil incarnate as myth.
Click to expand...
do you really believe her pastor didn’t know this? see my post above… i added the last part while you were posting.
 
But if they believe in Sola Scriptura and private interpretation, are they not free to reject that doctrine? After all, are not church drawn confessions of faith what they were trying to get away from with the Catholic Church?
 
jen_fla said:
do you really believe her pastor didn’t know this? see my post above… i added the last part while you were posting.
Click to expand...
If the pastor and her renounce it so easily, safe to say that it isn’t something of critical importance to them.

And if not to either her or her pastor, then why should it matter to us or anybody?

What dogma has the Catholic Church ever renounced?

That is a basic difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Whether we like it or not, Catholic dogma is what it is. Protestants are of a more personal faith.

Do you, or anyone, think that this is the doctrine of her church that motivates her in her Christianity? Is this why she is such a big part of the foster care system? Does she stand for family and life to contradict the popes, or because she believes in the same Christ that motivates them to speak as they do. I can imagine that these evangelicals love to notch their belts converting lapsed Catholics for sure, but that is pretty easy fishing in a school that large.

I don’t think that this is an issue with anyone really. Identity politics are all the rage, and if this is the kind of issue that can nationalize the Catholic mind into a paranoid group think, then this is what will be churned out.

What people hate about Bachmann is that she is an evangelical Christian of the hated right, who must be stopped at any cost, and for any reason.

All the rest is smear.
 
estesbob said:
Videos of his sermons were widely available on the Internet so we don’t have to judge for snippets, we can judge for ourselves… . So just how can "not God bless America, God damn America, be considered anything but anti-American?
Click to expand...
Maybe throughout its history America has been less than perfect. You ought to consider why the good reverend said that and what he was talking about.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Maybe throughout its history America has been less than perfect. You ought to consider why the good reverend said that and what he was talking about.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what that has to do with the topic. :confused:
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Maybe throughout its history America has been less than perfect. You ought to consider why the good reverend said that and what he was talking about.
Click to expand...
So, you have considered and agree with his “God damn America” comment because America was less than perfect?
 
Darryl1958 said:
If the pastor and her renounce it so easily, safe to say that it isn’t something of critical importance to them.

And if not to either her or her pastor, then why should it matter to us or anybody?

What dogma has the Catholic Church ever renounced?

That is a basic difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Whether we like it or not, Catholic dogma is what it is. Protestants are of a more personal faith.

Do you, or anyone, think that this is the doctrine of her church that motivates her in her Christianity? Is this why she is such a big part of the foster care system? Does she stand for family and life to contradict the popes, or because she believes in the same Christ that motivates them to speak as they do. I can imagine that these evangelicals love to notch their belts converting lapsed Catholics for sure, but that is pretty easy fishing in a school that large.

I don’t think that this is an issue with anyone really. Identity politics are all the rage, and if this is the kind of issue that can nationalize the Catholic mind into a paranoid group think, then this is what will be churned out.

What people hate about Bachmann is that she is an evangelical Christian of the hated right, who must be stopped at any cost, and for any reason.

All the rest is smear.
Click to expand...
we don’t know that the pastor renounced it. that is just michelle’s word. if he truly renounced it he would leave the church because it is their official teaching. what kind of pastor doesn’t know that they have an entire chapter devoted to the Pope being the antiChrist on their web site? there are plenty of other lutheran churches that don’t believe such garbage.

for me, her past membership to this church is problematic. she has links to another pastor that openly preached the pope is the antiChrist as well. i think it is slightly possible she didn’t know this was what her church taught, but i really think the odds are she knew. (see next post)
 
jen_fla said:
she was a member of that antiCatholic church for over 10 years. as soon as she decided to run for president she left it.

better late than never i suppose but this is something i won’t be able to get past. i’ll take good ol’ methodist ron paul anyday. 🙂
Click to expand...
She is not my first choice but I most certainly would have no problem voting for her Ishii got the Republican nomination. . I actually think there’s a good chance she will be the VP nominee.
 
jen_fla said:
michelle bachmann has endorsed the ministry of bradllee dean who has also openly stated that the Pope is the antiChrist.

Is Bradlee Dean Michele Bachmann’s Rev. Wright?

bradlee dean on the Pope

youtube.com/watch?v=YPppc8wHkXo&feature=player_embedded

bradlee dean regarding Catholics and drinking and gambling

youtube.com/watch?v=6TJS5fUxlOk&feature=related
Click to expand...
I honestly don’t have a problem with voting for someone, Democrat or Republican, who belongs to a Church with anti-Catholic beliefs. I think it would be silly for anyone to have a problem with that. I expect Protestants to be anti-Catholic…certainly anti-papacy!

Now, if they believe in rounding up Catholics and burning them at the stake? Totally unacceptable. 😛
 
rlg94086 said:
I honestly don’t have a problem with voting for someone, Democrat or Republican, who belongs to a Church with anti-Catholic beliefs. I think it would be silly for anyone to have a problem with that. I expect Protestants to be anti-Catholic…certainly anti-papacy!

Now, if they believe in rounding up Catholics and burning them at the stake? Totally unacceptable. 😛
Click to expand...
i will not put my country before Christ. God comes first. i don’t think it’s silly to choose not to support someone who subscribes to this:
Therefore, even though the bishop of Rome had the primacy by divine right, yet since he defends godless services and doctrine conflicting with the Gospel, obedience is not due him; yea, it is necessary to resist him as Antichrist. The errors of the Pope are manifest and not trifling.
Click to expand...
i am not saying that we know 100% sure that michelle resists the Pope, but in response to what you said, voting for “someone” well, i think we as Catholics should have a HUGE problem with this. just read page eight of the wels doctrine and you will see how outrageous their doctrines are. there is no way i could vote for someone that wasn’t intelligent enough to realize how ridiculous these claims are.

let’s put aside the insults to the Pope and ask ourselves if we would vote for a president that supports a ministry that thinks violence towards homosexuals is moral!!! maybe i shouldn’t have brought that up in this thread. should i start a new one discussing bachmann’s ties to bradlee dean?
 
estesbob said:
She is not my first choice but I most certainly would have no problem voting for her Ishii got the Republican nomination. . I actually think there’s a good chance she will be the VP nominee.
Click to expand...
i’d wager cain has a better shot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top