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phil3
Guest
Tell us the steps you will take to “not put up with it anymore”? I am willing to listen. As long as those step treat all fairly.
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Poet
Guest
I fully agree that ‘white nationalists’ are the new bogeyman. I heard it was 80% out of state, then heard that wasn’t true, then heard that he said it because it was the only way to get people to agree the violence needs to end.
Agreed in many respects. I would say though, he’s threatening the rioters and looters with dogs. Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests.
And…? Sure, maybe there are white supremacists in the mix. There are plenty of Antifa in there agitating, too. There are locals who see a chance to grab free stuff from Target. And kids out thinking this is exciting. None of them are doing any good for the community they claim they’re helping.
I agree. That and what I said are both true. Many white men may also feel that way, if they know of the white men who have been killed by cops. My own father, a well-educated (white) professional, was tazed and injured by police.
But I think part of the problem is that society, people like Jesse Jackson, constantly TELL black kids that society is racist and hates them and that they need to be afraid of the cops. I think these kids are being victimized by being told the world is racist. They then go into it seeing ‘racism’ when most of the time it’s actually someone who’s an equal opportunity jerk to everyone or having a bad day or incompetent or made a terrible mistake.
What I want to see is EQUAL REPORTING Let the media report EVERY person killed by the police and see how attitudes change.
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Poet
Guest
White people are also killed by the police, hundreds of times a year.CathoRick:
No, I’m pointing out how they can’t be compared because the problems are not the same.
You have the legal recourse to elect the people and pass the law to enact the change you desire.
Black brothers and sisters are being abused and the law is not being applied at all. Even if the DA office is forced to press charges the courts render non guilty verdicts as in the case of Castile.
There IS legal recourse because time after time the cops who kill black men ARE charged and put on trial and it’s a bit disingenuous or circular logic to decide from what we hear in the media that the jurors have only two choices: either they find him guilty OR they must be racist. They are the ones actually hearing all the facts, as opposed to those of us who hear only what the media chooses to tell us.
Sometimes the cops are found guilty. Sometimes they’re found innocent. Sometimes those verdicts are wrong–both innocent and guilty verdicts–for various reasons.
And I suppose part of my point here is: there is a LOT more to this than simply ‘racism.’ Human nature itself is fallen and there are many corrupt people on all sides of these issues, and many good people, and many decisions being made for political expediency rather than truth…my point again is, to say this is all about ‘racism’ is a horrible oversimplification and one that in and of itself only fans flames of racial division without actually solving the problem.
When you consider how much voter fraud there is, many probably question whether there’s actual legal recourse to stop abortion. When you consider that even when caught blatantly breaking laws over and over, somehow Planned Parenthood is left alone and the person who showed them breaking laws was put on trial–where is the political recourse? How do we vote in better people if there’s voter fraud and the system is rigged?
If people feel there’s no political recourse, do you endorse violence? If pro-lifers feel there’s no political recourse, will you endorse them rioting and looting?
And if voting is their political recourse, isn’t voting also the recourse for other issues? Can’t we simply vote in non-racist people who appoint non-racist police chiefs and judges and institute non-racist cops and so on?
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TC3033
Guest
Pretty quiet night last night.
8PM curfew was in place. Authorities gave the crowd about half an hour to break up…they didn’t so authorities broke it up.
More or less it looked like if a gathering was quiet and just a few people they left you alone. As soon as it got too big and instagative they broke it up.
8PM curfew was in place. Authorities gave the crowd about half an hour to break up…they didn’t so authorities broke it up.
More or less it looked like if a gathering was quiet and just a few people they left you alone. As soon as it got too big and instagative they broke it up.
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StudentMI
Guest
My cynical self is convinced that’s really the reason it got out of hand. Nothing about justice. Mention of a carnival atmosphere above was spot on.
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Dr_Meinheimer
Guest
This is a lesson for all citizens. From the Brookings Institute:
Black voter turnout was within 1 percentage point of whites in 2008 (65.2% compared to 66.1%) and was actually higher than whites in 2012 (66.6% compared to 64.1%). In 2016, voter turnout for Blacks dipped to 59.6%. While that number was lower than whites (65.3%), it was still higher than Asians (49.3%) and Hispanics (47.6%).
While I am glad 2/3 of whites and blacks voted in 2016, shouldn’t we start with getting those numbers closer to 100% to see our local and national interests served? The systems may not be broken, but it isn’t even being fully exercised either.
Black voter turnout was within 1 percentage point of whites in 2008 (65.2% compared to 66.1%) and was actually higher than whites in 2012 (66.6% compared to 64.1%). In 2016, voter turnout for Blacks dipped to 59.6%. While that number was lower than whites (65.3%), it was still higher than Asians (49.3%) and Hispanics (47.6%).
While I am glad 2/3 of whites and blacks voted in 2016, shouldn’t we start with getting those numbers closer to 100% to see our local and national interests served? The systems may not be broken, but it isn’t even being fully exercised either.
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petra22
Guest
Just wondering what you call all the black on black violence in the big cities? Are there laws being broken there too? Does anybody care?
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petra22
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I am praying for you!
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petra22
Guest
The same thought crossed my mind when I read “organized rioting…”
blackforest
Well-known member
Violence. It’s called violence.
I think some police violence is motivated by racism. Some is motivated by an unhealthy sense of power. Some it motivated by jaded cynicism with the darker side of humanity that they see. None of it is justified. But all of these potential motives need to be addressed. Including racism.
Yes, I pointed this out earlier in the thread. Progressive =/= non-racist necessarily. It simply means that racism may more likely stay hidden or unacknowledged. Also, I have no idea of the political affiliation of the officers involved; it could have been liberal, conservative, both, or neither.
That’s an important start.
There also needs to be external accountability, not just internal investigations.
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Thorolfr
Guest
Being a native Californian who lived in San Francisco for six years, I would be curious to know how exactly the City raised taxes on black people more than on white people? When a tax bill gets sent out, how do they know the race of the recipient? And who was the mastermind of this scheme?Anrakyr:
Which part of what I said isn’t a fact? That San Francisco raised taxes in black communities to get them to leave? That’s a fact. So is the scapegoating of poor whites.
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lbower2025
Guest
The police officer that killed him was charged murder, so they aren’t doing anything they are only creating division.
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Limoncello4021
Guest
It is quite clear that quite a number of the agitators in the Minneapolis area came into the city by van and car load, many with no license plates or out of state license plates. Whether antifa or white nationalists depends on who you ask. Good evidence that they were just thugs and gang members looking to loot and capitalize on the situation, joined by local thugs.
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Fuerza
Guest
All the morality and ethics training in the world will do nothing if a person is bad at his core. We go through tons of this training, and frankly, it’s stuff that any decent human being knows anyway. I wish we could do a better job of eliminating applicants during the psychological evaluation, and we do to an extent, but there are some bad people who know how to put themselves off as good. We’ll never be able to get rid of them until they do something that betrays their true nature.
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Wampa
Guest
I was the person who posted the ‘80% outsiders’ citation for MN in one of these threads, so I should update that now that we have better info. This article has specific numbers and hometowns for last night’s arrests:
This morning the head of our Dept of Public Safety said 20% were from out-of-town. It looks like the initial faulting of ‘out-of-staters’ was vastly overstated based on insufficient data at the time. Now that we have more data, the true picture is becoming clearer. There are certainly some outsiders here doing “organized rioting” (the governor called them “well-organized groups that are trained in urban warfare tactics”) and we had many examples of that last night. However, it’s becoming clearer that some of the legitimate protesters are also a big part of the problem.
I watched 6 hours of local coverage after 8pm last night, which included interviews with dozens of protesters. While I suspect the majority of legitimate protesters went home by the 8pm curfews, many stayed out all night protesting. The distinction I’m making here is that these people were primarily looking to protest, not riot/loot, but as our governor said “At 8 p.m. tonight, it is time to separate out the people who are protesting peacefully in pursuit of justice from those who wish to undermine this movement through chaos and violence.” Those who chose to protest past 8pm intentionally chose to hinder the efforts to find and root out the rioters/agitators.
One of the most interesting things about last night was the number of neighborhoods that rose up in defense of their block and drove out the protesters. I saw story after story of neighborhood groups that confronted protesters and drove them away. I especially enjoyed the story of the Native American community doing so and protecting their Native-owned businesses (there’s a 4:44 interview with them in this article, where they make the interesting point that a lot of their businesses don’t have riot insurance):
This morning the head of our Dept of Public Safety said 20% were from out-of-town. It looks like the initial faulting of ‘out-of-staters’ was vastly overstated based on insufficient data at the time. Now that we have more data, the true picture is becoming clearer. There are certainly some outsiders here doing “organized rioting” (the governor called them “well-organized groups that are trained in urban warfare tactics”) and we had many examples of that last night. However, it’s becoming clearer that some of the legitimate protesters are also a big part of the problem.
I watched 6 hours of local coverage after 8pm last night, which included interviews with dozens of protesters. While I suspect the majority of legitimate protesters went home by the 8pm curfews, many stayed out all night protesting. The distinction I’m making here is that these people were primarily looking to protest, not riot/loot, but as our governor said “At 8 p.m. tonight, it is time to separate out the people who are protesting peacefully in pursuit of justice from those who wish to undermine this movement through chaos and violence.” Those who chose to protest past 8pm intentionally chose to hinder the efforts to find and root out the rioters/agitators.
One of the most interesting things about last night was the number of neighborhoods that rose up in defense of their block and drove out the protesters. I saw story after story of neighborhood groups that confronted protesters and drove them away. I especially enjoyed the story of the Native American community doing so and protecting their Native-owned businesses (there’s a 4:44 interview with them in this article, where they make the interesting point that a lot of their businesses don’t have riot insurance):
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Unless we do an accurate count there is no way to tell which group is more at fault. Until then we are left with our own speculations.
The thing about outside agitators is that you don’t need many to instigate a bad response on the part of disaffected locals. Once one guy with an umbrella and a baseball bat smashes a bunch of storefront windows, it doesn’t take much before an angry crowd takes advantage of the opening. Mob dynamics are very unstable. People will do things as part of a mob that none of them would even think was OK if they were acting on their own.
Fortunately, last night was quite a bit better, with police and the peaceful protesters coming together to being the healing in Minneapolis.
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petra22
Guest
How can this be? Only white people can be racist?
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Fuerza
Guest
I know that you were quoting someone else, but there are a few issues with the so-called “militarization” of the police. First off, it’s not actually a thing. Very few police departments have anything remotely close to what would be considered military equipment. Secondly, those that do usually have it for a reason. Do you expect a police officer to go up against a mob armed with rifles and firebombs with only a handgun and a vest? In those situations an armored tank, which does not have any mounted weaponry, will be brought in to allow police to be transported safely to where they are needed most. This is what we needed to do last night, as people set fires to businesses and shot firearms at innocent bystanders. That equipment is necessary for safety, and is never used in routine enforcement. When was the last time that you were pulled over for speeding by a tank?
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Pattylt
Guest
I agree that this is a problem that can’t be solved in the initial phase of hiring and training. Too often we see that these “bad” officers have a history of bad behavior. The current case shows the officer had several problems. Like most professions that are very high stress, there develops a culture of protecting their own. I’ve witnessed it in the medical field, too. Doctors are very reluctant to condemn…and thus protect fellow doctors. Whenever there is a bad outcome in a hospital setting, there are meetings going over what went wrong. As long as the doctor wasn’t blatantly malpracticing, it’s written off as mere human error…and much sympathy expressed for it happening. The problem is that often there were some malpractice points in the patients care. If one specific doctor racks up enough bad outcomes, he’ll be encouraged to relocate. He’s rarely brought before the Board of Medical Examiners and his license removed. It’s similar to the shuffling of the pedophile priests as an analogy.
How should internal investigations be changed to watch for these red flags? How do we prevent an officer from continuing to be on the streets because no one wants to ruin his career?
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commenter
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I’m watching the local news, politicians are putting all the blame on outside agitators. But where would outside agitators come from, considering riots occur in numerous cities simultaneously? If there are 100 troublemakers from other cities here, there likely are, on average, 100 folks from here causing trouble in other cities.
This is a spiritual war, there is constant opposition to the idea that we ourselves might need conversion.
This is a spiritual war, there is constant opposition to the idea that we ourselves might need conversion.
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