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katherine2
Guest
And society and private individuals are two different things. I’m happy to explore the fullness of the Church’s clear social teachings.
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aimee
Guest
I supose to the poster you quote you are…perhaps she is a socislist or a Soros fellowship member.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Do poor people usually own a lot of property?
Lisa N
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
A good Christian opposes the murder of babies. While babies are being murdered, you guys sit around debating arguable economic policies; it is just so frustrating.
We have an ongoing civillian populace participating in murder chambers and the Faithful are debating economics. It is so frustrating and sad. I need to keep praying.
Priorities. We ALL need to unite. No candidate, no legislation that supports taking innocent life should ever be acceptable.
It’s like watching a murder in front of your eyes and the Catholic next to you starts chattering about better ways to boil an egg.
If you’re not praying to end abortion, what will you say on judgement day?
We have an ongoing civillian populace participating in murder chambers and the Faithful are debating economics. It is so frustrating and sad. I need to keep praying.
Priorities. We ALL need to unite. No candidate, no legislation that supports taking innocent life should ever be acceptable.
It’s like watching a murder in front of your eyes and the Catholic next to you starts chattering about better ways to boil an egg.
If you’re not praying to end abortion, what will you say on judgement day?
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Ya know, not everyone who mentions the Church’s social teachings is ipso facto a socialist. Nor is anyone who thinks that sanely raising taxes is sometimes needed. To paraphrase Justice Hughes, taxes are the dues you pay for civilization. Also, Catholics who espouse attention to the “preferential option for the poor” do not always do so at the cost of unborn babies lives. Some of us try to mold our consciences in accord with the totality of the Church’s teachings.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
But many do. Where the social programs are put on an evil scale with abortions on the other side and if it tilts some way based on personal preference and suddenly you end up casting a vote for an abortionist. How many “Catholics for Kerry” bumper stickers did you see?
Madness.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
I can answer that! I can actually answer that without exagerating! None, absolutely none…but then I live in Las Vegas, where “bidness knows best.”
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While what you say is true so is the opposite.
Those who are for tax cuts are not evil republicans. Those who disagree with your ideas on how to implement the Church’s social teachings is not always against those teachings maybe they just against how you want to make those teachings happen.
Just because we disagree with you does not mean that we are not also trying to mold our consciences in accord with the totality of the Church’s teachings.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
****! And I was sooooo hoping to seize the moral high ground!!! I do realize that, someone just batted around the term “socialist” in an earlier post in what I believe to be a rather cavalier and inflamatory manner. As it happens, I do not believe all Republicans are evil, nor do I believe all Democrats are either. I do take your point.
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chicago
Guest
They are distinct. However, in a democratic republican society such as we have, they are not seperate or opposed. Therefore, just as religion can not be seperated from society without self destruction, neither can “government” be pitted against society without problems ensuing. Rather, government is properly an outgrowth and expression of society’s concerns.
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Trelow
Guest
Ok lets think with logic.
Who employes others?
Who depends on being employed by others?
How likely will those whom do the employing take the hit them selves?
Who will they pass it off too?
Who buys lower quality good produced by lower paid people?
Would the goods cost more?
Would the employees be paid less?
Would those whom now make less and have to pay more for good and services need more assistance?
Where would they get this assistance?
If more people are requiring more assistance, do you raise taxes again?
Do you repeat this same cycle?
When do you stop?
Will there come a point when people are so taxed that they refuse to give anything to charities because the government is taking so much?
And if so what happens to faith based charities reliant on private donations?
Are we raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because…?
Who employes others?
Who depends on being employed by others?
How likely will those whom do the employing take the hit them selves?
Who will they pass it off too?
Who buys lower quality good produced by lower paid people?
Would the goods cost more?
Would the employees be paid less?
Would those whom now make less and have to pay more for good and services need more assistance?
Where would they get this assistance?
If more people are requiring more assistance, do you raise taxes again?
Do you repeat this same cycle?
When do you stop?
Will there come a point when people are so taxed that they refuse to give anything to charities because the government is taking so much?
And if so what happens to faith based charities reliant on private donations?
Are we raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because we are raising taxes again, while making less money and paying more for goods and services, and the only assistance available is funded by the government but we need to use the assistance because we can’t afford to live because…?
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swampfox
Guest
Let’s add another–What political party in the US supports government funded abortions and a more “progressive” taxation scheme that would help pay for them?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
The president who’s first offical act in office was to lift the executive order banning federal money from being used to fund abortions was of what party?
I will give you a clue, the executive order was put in place by the current presidents father.
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swampfox
Guest
I recollect the philanderer was big on government funded abortions and was unaware that the first Bush was too–Well, thank God W isn’t–
Here’s something that may interest you
CAPITALISM RIGHTLY UNDERSTOOD: THE VIEW OF CHRISTIAN HUMANISM
Michael Novak
ewtn.com/library/business/fr91401.htm
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fix
Guest
Island Oak:
I posted one sentence. The issues are related in many ways.How DO you do it? You can find a soapbox to rail against sexual immorality even in the midst of an otherwise tame discussion about taxes.
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katherine2
Guest
Lisa N:
Thnak you for asking.
In Minnesota, yes, the property tax increases fell disproportionately on people who owned modest homes and the elderly in comparision to the income tax proposal that effected only those at the very upper brackets.
Thnak you for asking.
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katherine2
Guest
No one here has said that nor have the Minnesota bishops said that.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
You are correct. It’s just that I see all this fervor in economics from people on both sides who seem so intelligent and considerate and at the same time I see pro-childmurder Catholic politicians in office. There is a disconnect here. There is an outrage occuring, yet nothing is being done.
Am I hijacking this thread? I don’t think so, because the fervor on this topic counterpoints the lack of a much greater fervor about the outrage of abortion and the further outrage of Catholics in public supporting child murdering in the womb.
The election is over and still we have politicians who claim Catholic communion and pro-murder of the innocent. This is a scandal for them and for us.
Our shepherds need to let go of the purse strings, their own and their government’s, and rescue their flock.
NOW!!!
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fix
Guest
Your words go the the heart of most of the debates on this forum. Some Catholics see economic issues as the chief issues of the church and others see that the Church was founded to save souls.
I am not saying money issues are not important, but the bishops have no probelm talking about taxes and poverty often. I do not hear that much about are other obligations.
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katherine2
Guest
I disagree with you that nothing is being done and whatever improvements might be brought about I think it is insulting to call the admirable pro-life witness of the Minnesota bishop “nothing.”
God has not been miserly with the talents and energy He has given us. Nothing but our own sinfullness stops us from witnessing for the poor, the unborn, the disabled, the condemned criminal, the sick and the elderly concurrently.
Telling the bishops of Minnesota or faithful Catholics in general to ‘shut up’ in their faith based advocacy for the poor does not help protect the unborn. In fact, one of the programs being cut in Minnesota is a very effective program that helps women in crisis pregnancies choose life.
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