MN Bishops Ask for Income Tax Increase

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swampfox:
Yes, it is the school of economics called DO-AS-I-SAY-Not-DO-AS-I-DO, which is also known by the name What’sGood4Me/is/NotGood4U. Proponents of that school are known as the NOMENKLATURA and typically characterized by shamelessness, elitism, hypocrisy and a sense of entitlement and special privilege.
And sadly, you have described some bishops – they’ve been in there so long, in a life where they were never forced to scramble for a living, nor to make a profit to keep a business from going bankrupt, they fail to understand their own hypocracy.
 
Lisa N:
No and because of low interest rates we have a record number of people in this country who own their home. However you need to get in touch with reality. Compare the tax base, value and percentage of home ownership among wealthy people vis a vis poor people.
I have. When you cut income taxes on the top brackets and raise property taxes on everyone, at the end of the day you have shifted the tax burden from the rich to the poor and middle class. i applaud the Minnesota bishops for saying that is wrong and I think people like you who criticize the bishops are serving the interests of the rich against the poor and middle class.
I generally belittle socialists, communists, bleeding heart liberals, and people so “open minded” their brains fell out long ago. Did these people cause the problem to happen?
Well, you Nazis have not done a whole lot to make this world better.
So since you have no support for your argument you are reduced to calling me a Nazi?
Lisa, don’t be such a crying wimp. You call me a Communist and then you get all teary eyed and hurt. Boo-hoo.
As to your suggestion that Nazis are right wing, sorry but there is NOTHING right wing about Nazis. The only people who consider them such are not very conversant with the actual characteristics of right/left wing politics.

Lisa N
Which would be everyone who actually experienced the Nazis.
 
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swampfox:
Do you mean state employees’ health benefits don’t pay for abortions in Minnesota. Those benefits are funded by the taxpayers. Also, how about the “poor” expectant mothers? Do they get government funded abortions in Minnesota? If not, Minnesota is not as “progressive” as most blue states which think it is unfair to deny a poor expectant mother the wherewithal to kill her child since a rich or middle class expectant mother can afford to pay for the killing herself.
I love the fact that long after you have shot off your mouth, you finally start asking some questions. Maybe in the future you would like to reverse that sequence.
 
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katherine2:
You can be low income and own a home. Last fall we helped such a lady put insulation in her home so she could better afford her gas bill this winter.
But you’d be better off than someone who had the same income and DIDN’T own a home.

Homeowners are substantially “richer” than renters – typically to the tune of a hundred thousand dollars or more in total assets.

The problem is not that income taxes have been cut, but that public money is being squandered by people who think the only solution to problems is to throw money at them.
 
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katherine2:
I love the fact that long after you have shot off your mouth, you finally start asking some questions. Maybe in the future you would like to reverse that sequence.
Now, Katherine dear, remember you shot off your mouth about abortion not being illegal at the time the Constitution was written. Maybe you should follow your own advice.
 
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katherine2:
I love the fact that long after you have shot off your mouth, you finally start asking some questions. Maybe in the future you would like to reverse that sequence.
Where did you learn to be so rude?It appears you lack the capacity or the quality of discernment to realize this and the questions above are rhetorical. Abortions are medical procedures that public employee health benefits pay for and you, as a taxpayer, fund those benefits.
 
**
As to your suggestion that Nazis are right wing, sorry but there is NOTHING right wing about Nazis. The only people who consider them such are not very conversant with the actual characteristics of right/left wing politics.

**Exactly.
 
jlw said:
Lisa N:
As to your suggestion that Nazis are right wing, sorry but there is NOTHING right wing about Nazis. The only people who consider them such are not very conversant with the actual characteristics of right/left wing politics.

Exactly.

We had this discussion in another thread a few months ago. The general thrust among the “progressive” posters is that a leftist government is totalitarianism by the masses while a rightist government is totalitarianism by the business and/or aristocratic elite.

I of course define the right wing as those seeking small government, essential services only and the left wing as those seeking government control of everything.

To get back to the thread topic…I think it is very, very dangerous to turn money over to the government for philanthropic works. We should always strive to provide for the needy through private means. Government welfare should only be an absolute last resort to deal with emergencies and should only be done temporarily.
 
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StJeanneDArc:
To get back to the thread topic…I think it is very, very dangerous to turn money over to the government for philanthropic works. We should always strive to provide for the needy through private means. Government welfare should only be an absolute last resort to deal with emergencies and should only be done temporarily.
If you had a choice, would you rather get help from your neighbors, people who know you, or from some bureaucrat that sees you as another cipher?
 
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katherine2:
I know it. :cool:

The Minnesota bishop are fighting to keep programs in place that save unborn lives and you are criticizing them.
Not criticizing reminding them of their duty and what is NOT their duty.
Whatever. If so, I guess it could be said that if you are not supporting the bishops as they fight to kep programs that save unborn lives you are supporting the murder of the unborn baby.
Such programs are debatable. The issue itself is not. If the support of the program gets in the way of the spiritual duties they have lost their way when they should be leading the way. If those programs prevent them from proclaiming the Truth, the battle is already lost.
And how much worse to obstruct the saving of unborn lives because it is not being done the way you prefer.
It is not a question of what I prefer. You put the either/or on me, but the either/or condition is on the bishops. They can support that program but they FIRST have to proclaim and defend the faith. If support of that program has them allow public scandal, they cannot support the program. You cannot allow evil to do good.
It sure is. The bishops fight for the unborn, the poor, the disabled and the elderly and some Catholic do nothing but criticize.
The bishops need to defend God first, the unborn second. If they cannot uphold the Truth of the sanctity of life by preaching the Truth and discipline those who publically profess Catholicism and then support abortion, they cannot win the battle as they have declared defeat before fighting.
 
Well Katherine you extoll Communist virtues and claim yourself to be a communist so I have a hard time understanding why you are so preturbed at being called by your self identified political stance. As to calling people Nazis, well that’s really so pathetic, you really could do better.

Aside from that what does your putting insulation into a home have to do with taxes?

And for the THIRD TIME do you have a sales tax in Minn? Isn’t that the MOST regressive tax there is? After all many poor people do not own property and thus would not be impacted by an increase in property taxes. However, even the poorest of the poor do buy things and thus are subject to sales taxes. And there are no deferrals or abatements of sales taxes as there are with property taxes. Sales taxes are totally regressive and further, unlike property tax, are no longer deductible on your federal return. Thus while the after tax cost of a property tax is actually lower than the actual cash expended the sales tax is paid completely with after tax dollars.

Finally I agree that we as Christians are our brother’s keeper. However I do not think enforced conscription from Big Brother is at all a sacred duty. The Bishops ought to be spending more time educating people about why they should give to EFFECTIVE socials services organizations (this would omit government programs for the most part) instead of becoming erstwhile tax collectors. While Jesus did consort with tax collectors, once they encountered Jesus, they saw the error of their ways. I’m surprised the Bishops still see taxes as some kind of charity that we should all be delighted to give.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
And for the THIRD TIME do you have a sales tax in Minn? Isn’t that the MOST regressive tax there is? After all many poor people do not own property and thus would not be impacted by an increase in property taxes. However, even the poorest of the poor do buy things and thus are subject to sales taxes. Lisa N
Bingo!

The issue is not how to raise money fairly (nor how to spend it efficiently) but to advance a political agenda. The STATE must control, the PEOPLE as individuals cannot be trusted.
 
vern humphrey:
But you’d be better off than someone who had the same income and DIDN’T own a home.
Bu they are not getting their taxes cut. The rich get their taxes cut and the middle class pays more and the Nazis are happy.
 
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swampfox:
Where did you learn to be so rude?It appears you lack the capacity or the quality of discernment to realize this and the questions above are rhetorical. Abortions are medical procedures that public employee health benefits pay for and you, as a taxpayer, fund those benefits.
Minnestota Statute 145.935 says you are wrong.
 
Wel Lisa, you extoll Nazi virtues and claim yourself to be a nazi so I have a hard time understanding why you are so preturbed at being called by your self identified political stance. As to calling people Communists, well that’s really so pathetic, you really could do better
And for the THIRD TIME do you have a sales tax in Minn? Isn’t that the MOST regressive tax there is?
Yes and yes, except no one is changing the sales tax (though that would be a good idea). The bishops of Minnesota object to cutting the income taxes for the rich at the high brackets and raising property taxes on lower income people. And a bunch of posters here (including one little Nazi) call the bishops every dirty name in the book.
 
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katherine2:
Bu they are not getting their taxes cut. The rich get their taxes cut and the middle class pays more and the Nazis are happy.
Like your post about there being no law against abortion when the Constitution was written, this is wrong too.

The upper 20% paid 78% of all taxes before the tax cut, and 82% afterwards. Everyone who pays taxes got a cut, but the rich got proportionately less – their share of the burden increased.

The lowest federal tax bracket went from 15% down to 10%. And when the Republicans wanted to make that tax permanent, your fellow Nazis wanted to stop them – they want to see the lowest income taxpayers take a 50% increase over what they’re paying now.
 
vern humphrey:
The upper 20% paid 78% of all taxes before the tax cut, and 82% afterwards. Everyone who pays taxes got a cut, but the rich got proportionately less – their share of the burden increased.

The lowest federal tax bracket went from 15% down to 10%. And when the Republicans wanted to make that tax permanent, your fellow Nazis wanted to stop them – they want to see the lowest income taxpayers take a 50% increase over what they’re paying now.
Vern, try to follow the discussion. We are talking about Minnesota state taxes. Even the Nazis understands that.
 
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katherine2:
Vern, try to follow the discussion. We are talking about Minnesota state taxes. Even the Nazis understands that.
Well, I guess that’s Minnesota’s problem, isn’t it?

But I’m glad we agree that the federal tax cuts were NOT designed to benefit the rich, and that the lowest income taxpayers got the lion’s share.
 
vern humphrey:
Well, I guess that’s Minnesota’s problem, isn’t it?

But I’m glad we agree that the federal tax cuts were NOT designed to benefit the rich, and that the lowest income taxpayers got the lion’s share.
Vern, Vern, are you paying attention?

Vern, put the gin bottle down.

Good. Now try to follow along.

We are talking about Minnesota. You keep getting distracted by… I said put the gin bottle down … now the thread is about Minnesota. Its a nice state up north with a lot of Catholics and Lutherans. Do you ever… Vern, wake up… listen to Praire Home Companion on the radio? No, it doesn’t come on after Rush, it’s on… oh, thats right, its on NPR, of course you’ve never heard of it. Ok Vern. Take your meds and go to bed now. Tell the nurse its night-night time.
 
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