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rcwitness
Guest
Even the more dramatic… “Oh really, do you think grandma is in hell?”
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on_the_hill
Guest
Kids aren’t as astute as we like to think they are. How many of us had seen movies when we were children that, seeing them as adults, we see a whole lot more that went over our heads as children?
Young children will see grandma’s boyfriend as “that guy who used to live with grandma,” and not quite understand it and spend their brain power on more important stuff, like movies, games, and TV shows that they like.
It’s also an opportunity for the children to see that not everyone lives according to their parents’ behaviors. That’s the whole purpose of wanting to shield them from it, isn’t it? So that they don’t get the wrong ideas?
I have an Evangelical Free friend whose daughter attends a Protestant college. She says that they’d always raised their kids to understand that not everyone believes as they do, and that they need to be respectful of people who are different.
They are now questioning their daughter’s enrollment at the college, because she finds herself surrounded by staunchly conservative Christians who very readily pass judgement and criticize people who hold different religious & social beliefs.
I would expect most Catholics would share my friend’s sentiment: “Who am I to judge?”
Young children will see grandma’s boyfriend as “that guy who used to live with grandma,” and not quite understand it and spend their brain power on more important stuff, like movies, games, and TV shows that they like.
It’s also an opportunity for the children to see that not everyone lives according to their parents’ behaviors. That’s the whole purpose of wanting to shield them from it, isn’t it? So that they don’t get the wrong ideas?
I have an Evangelical Free friend whose daughter attends a Protestant college. She says that they’d always raised their kids to understand that not everyone believes as they do, and that they need to be respectful of people who are different.
They are now questioning their daughter’s enrollment at the college, because she finds herself surrounded by staunchly conservative Christians who very readily pass judgement and criticize people who hold different religious & social beliefs.
I would expect most Catholics would share my friend’s sentiment: “Who am I to judge?”
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Gorgias
Guest
I’ll pass. I’d rather take fire to whatever bible or catechism you’re reading, 'cause man, it’s got you really confused about Church teaching… 
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Gorgias
Guest
Two thoughts:
- First, that’s not the footnote in the NAB-RE at the USCCB site, nor in a printed NAB I checked. What Bible are you using?
- Second, I really hope that you recognize that this quote you are referencing is citing one manuscript (the “Byzantine Majority Text”), and not “the majority of texts”.
You’d be surprised with my qualifications.
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Mi_Rose
Guest
Admonish the sinner had many qualifiers when I was taught it back in the days when we all used the Baltimore Catechism. Will it do any good and do not do it if is a parent your boss or anyone with authority over you come to mind in this situation.
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Gorgias
Guest
OK. Just checking. 
And yes, I know it’s present in the Majority Text. It’s not present in Sinaiticus or Vaticanus, though, which is the whole point of why it’s bracketed and asterisked.
And yes, I know it’s present in the Majority Text. It’s not present in Sinaiticus or Vaticanus, though, which is the whole point of why it’s bracketed and asterisked.
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Gorgias
Guest
Umm… and that’s not precisely what you’re doing by trotting out the Byzantine Majority Text? 
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Lara
Guest
The right thing to do is to spend time with Grandma at your place, but not visit Grandma in her own home with the kids. However, what you choose to do will depend on your strength.
If you are not as strong, you could go to her home and explain privately to the children who ask why that guy is living there and why they share a bed.
If you are not as strong, you could go to her home and explain privately to the children who ask why that guy is living there and why they share a bed.
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Gorgias
Guest
The funny thing is that, even if you insert “against you”, it doesn’t change the interpretation that’s being offered – especially in light of the support from the other Scriptural passages quoted in this thread! Rather, it’s only the ‘agenda’ against the claims I’ve outlined here that wants to attempt to use “against you” to thwart the rest of the quoted Scripture!
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VeryBlessed
Guest
Hey OP - me too. After the divorce of my folks, one parent lived with a partner long term. My wife and I had small children - same exact dilemma. I too was so torn between loyalty to that parent and taking a stand. In the end I embraced my parent all the more. For my kids I had to explain the paradox somewhat (in an age-appropriate way). Love the grandparent, but that is not what we would choose to do; but love them both anyway. This parent didn’t fully embrace faith in the way I do. However, things changed for them when a terminal illness set in. Near the end they went to confession twice, making a point for me to drive them there once. Your mom may be so hurt by the past, with perhaps some regrets of her own, that she may shy away from God or feel unworthy to be really deeply loved. There is a bible verse that says his kindness leads us to repentance. Keep affirming to your mom that she is worthy to be fully loved, and that God is crazy about her. None of this was easy. I will carry sorrow over my parents divorce to my grave. God bless you, I’m praying for you.
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Gorgias
Guest
We’ve trod this ground already. You seem to be more hung up over Grandma’s sex life than I.
Have a great day.
Have a great day.
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JanetF
Guest
When your kids start asking questions, you can let them know how you feel. You can explain to them that she’s your mother, she has made some choices in her life that you don’t necessarily approve of, and that your faith teaches are wrong, but your faith also teaches that we should honor our parents, and part of honoring them is remaining in their lives to lead by example. There is a difference between condoning the relationship by attending the wedding (if that were to happen in the future), and having a weekly Sunday meal with them.
Your kids, depending on their ages, may not even have this on their radar, they may just be thinking they are going to grandmas for dinner and she’ll give them 2 helpings of dessert…
Seriously I doubt that young kids are even thinking about where grandma sleeps and if she has company with her.
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jcrichton
Guest
No I mean that children learn from their environment even when the adults around them think that they are just playing childhood games in a far removed realm. Sound, such as laughter and things that go bump in the night travel and awaken the imagination. Then there’s the flirting and need to express intimacy that seems to trump reason and commonsense–these too will be picked up by the children. They would not need to be offensive signs and sounds nor the “dirty talk” that you seem to intimate.
No. It’s called discernment or observation; it is something that all of humanity, including you, shares–unless you are the only person in the world that does not distinguish dark chocolate from milk chocolate.
This is the conundrum, isn’t it? Since we are all sinners we should just abide by the “feel good” theology: ‘we all sin so none is to be held responsible or accountable… let’s just la-di-da around the tulip (greed, desire, anguish, devotion)’.
There’s a difference between sin and living in sin; I may one day be so hungry and so out of cash that I may go into a grocery store, fully aware that “thou shall not steal” is God’s Commandment, and appropriate goods that I could not pay for; but if I make that a practice of my daily life I would not just be sinning but I would be defying God by creating my own commandment: ‘do not sin, less you determine that you must!’
Maran atha!
Angel
No. It’s called discernment or observation; it is something that all of humanity, including you, shares–unless you are the only person in the world that does not distinguish dark chocolate from milk chocolate.
This is the conundrum, isn’t it? Since we are all sinners we should just abide by the “feel good” theology: ‘we all sin so none is to be held responsible or accountable… let’s just la-di-da around the tulip (greed, desire, anguish, devotion)’.
There’s a difference between sin and living in sin; I may one day be so hungry and so out of cash that I may go into a grocery store, fully aware that “thou shall not steal” is God’s Commandment, and appropriate goods that I could not pay for; but if I make that a practice of my daily life I would not just be sinning but I would be defying God by creating my own commandment: ‘do not sin, less you determine that you must!’
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
So St. Paul had it wrong?:
It is not a mishmash of churches and doctrines and individual; it is One Body of Christ. A person that sins against the Body sins against the Church (all of the individual parts, including the Head). Anyone can choose to leave the Church; no Believer can choose to abide in sin and remain in the Body–we abide in sin in more ways than in an active engagement:
That hollowood spirituality (“don’t judge” or “respect” or “a Loving God would/wouldn’t do xyz”) it’s all a farce that the gullible and confused, amongst others, readily lap up.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
…actually, it’s do not Commit adultery and do not sin and if your eye, hand, foot causes you to sin REMOVE IT!
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
We are running in circles on a tangent; I now think I understand what you mean to convey. However, you are fully missing my point.
What I understood from your example is that the issue (sin) is transported outside of the family; it suggest that it is ok to point out sin when those outside of the family are committing it; it also suggests that those in the family must be tended to with “love” and “affection” to minimize discomfort or disfavor–that’s enabling, regardless of how we justify it.
I apologize if that was not the intent.
Maran atha!
Angel
What I understood from your example is that the issue (sin) is transported outside of the family; it suggest that it is ok to point out sin when those outside of the family are committing it; it also suggests that those in the family must be tended to with “love” and “affection” to minimize discomfort or disfavor–that’s enabling, regardless of how we justify it.
I apologize if that was not the intent.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
…wow, you hit nail on head and are still confounded by the will of the people to call sin ok but just “don’t judge?”
You have made my point: calling sin not is exactly what you’ve elaborated upon above!
I may be wrong, but aren’t you suggesting that “grandma is just doing her” and the son should not just love her but just reach out and bring his children into the environment (sleepovers)?
Keeping his children from the effect of immoral union is ostracizing?
Maran atha!
Angel
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Annie
Guest
No, when raising children, one has to teach them a lot of things. Overall, there is loving the sinner while hating the sin. This is why we have to acknowledge the sin and pray for the person.
Some people are in our lives and so we need to avoid isolating them and thus cocoooning ourselves and at the same time cutting off communication of all sorts. It’s hard to have any effect on people with whom one is not in communication.
We also have to teach children that there are some people whom we are not equipped to help , because we do not want the children to think they have the same responsibility for random strangers that they have for close relatives.
It is not a question of the sins of the people are close to do not count but those of others do, it’s a question of helping them learn to evaluate situations in a healthy way.
Some people are in our lives and so we need to avoid isolating them and thus cocoooning ourselves and at the same time cutting off communication of all sorts. It’s hard to have any effect on people with whom one is not in communication.
We also have to teach children that there are some people whom we are not equipped to help , because we do not want the children to think they have the same responsibility for random strangers that they have for close relatives.
It is not a question of the sins of the people are close to do not count but those of others do, it’s a question of helping them learn to evaluate situations in a healthy way.
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jcrichton
Guest
Did you not read where St. Paul contests that we should not multiply sin with the pretense that we are seeking to make God’s Grace even more abundant?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Does anyone here think for one moment that the grandmother in question is not aware of the condemnation of living together?
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