'More than able to hold her own,' girl gets boot from Catholic football league

[VeritasLuxMea]

I do not see that is true. Male and female are different and not just physically. Are you a physicalist?

Do I think that there are differences between male and female that extend beyond the physical? What kind of differences?

You want sameness because it makes you feel better? Are we mere cogs in a machine interchangeable at will?

No, I want you to accept reality. Each individual is different, and their differences extend beyond being male and female. One is not capable of repairing a car simply because they were born with a penis.

Am I stronger than most females? Yes. Am I stronger than all of them? Heck no, and I bet you aren’t either! You seem to like biological facts. What is troubling to you about this particular biological fact?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

1. But the vast majority are.

Irrelevant.

1. No-one said anything about intelligence. Calm down.
2. No-one said anything about job equality. Calm down.

I swear, with the amount of times that people have given such responses - I’m going to start collecting quotes to deal with that. You can just look at all the threads about women and working, etc. In the mean time,

jimcav:

First off, women never, ever have to qualify for any job or any sport like a man does. The standards are always lowered, period.

1. No-one said anything about women making decisions for their own lives (though if that’s a jab at abortion rights, there’s the life of the child to consider). Calm down.

Seriously. Calm down.

“A woman is always under the authority of a man.”-Ron Conte

Otherwise, look up all the threads about female submission. They will tell you all about how a wife should obey her husband’s every command under all circumstances apart from those that lead to sin.

This particular thread is meant mostly to express the physical inferiority of women, but I speak of a broader misogyny problem that runs up and down and all over CAF, one that has absolutely nothing to do with female ordination.

 

[fix]

Do I think that there are differences between male and female that extend beyond the physical? What kind of differences?

Of course there are differences. That is not a superior/inferior relationship but one of complementarity. Do you deny this?

No, I want you to accept reality. Each individual is different, and their differences extend beyond being male and female. One is not capable of repairing a car simply because they were born with a penis.

How did you conclude this from what I have posted? Boys and girls are different. We raise them differently. That includes separate sports teams. I know that offends the secular worship of false equality but that is too bad.

Am I stronger than most females? Yes. Am I stronger than all of them? Heck no, and I bet you aren’t either! You seem to like biological facts. What is troubling to you about this particular biological fact?

Sorry, but it is you who thinks physical attributes are the only defining issue at play here.

 

[fix]

This particular thread is meant mostly to express the physical inferiority of women, but I speak of a broader misogyny problem that runs up and down and all over CAF, one that has absolutely nothing to do with female ordination.

You are very wrong. This issue is not about inferiority unless you are hyper sensitive for some reason. This is about differences that does not equal superior/inferior at all.

 

[Lochias]

Irrelevant.

Just because you say it’s irrelevant doesn’t make it so. Try again. Prove it.

I swear, with the amount of times that people have given such responses - I’m going to start collecting quotes to deal with that. You can just look at all the threads about women and working, etc. In the mean time,

What may or may not be in other threads is (factually) irrelevant to this one. You’re the one with an axe to grind here, and heaping things upon the rest of us that we’ve not uttered at all.

“A woman is always under the authority of a man.”-Ron Conte

I work at an office under the authority of a woman. Who are you going to believe, me or Ron Conte?

Otherwise, look up all the threads about female submission. They will tell you all about how a wife should obey her husband’s every command under all circumstances apart from those that lead to sin.

Haven’t seen any of those threads, but frankly, given your hysteria in this one, I’ll have to take what you say about those threads with a generous few grains of salt.

This particular thread is meant mostly to express the physical inferiority of women, but I speak of a broader misogyny problem that runs up and down and all over CAF, one that has absolutely nothing to do with female ordination.

…said no-one but you.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Irrelevant.

I swear, with the amount of times that people have given such responses - I’m going to start collecting quotes to deal with that. You can just look at all the threads about women and working, etc. In the mean time,

“A woman is always under the authority of a man.”-Ron Conte

Otherwise, look up all the threads about female submission. They will tell you all about how a wife should obey her husband’s every command under all circumstances apart from those that lead to sin.

This particular thread is meant mostly to express the physical inferiority of women, but I speak of a broader misogyny problem that runs up and down and all over CAF, one that has absolutely nothing to do with female ordination.

Again, the easiest solution to appease everyone is to make all sports coed. No gender based leagues at any level.

It would likely see a drop in female participation around 80-99%, but at least we can end the talk of high school boys wrestling keeping women down. I suspect there are a number of boys who would be happy to play field hockey over time. Likewise, i am sure the players in the NBAs D league would welcome the slightly higher revenues drawrn from competing in the WBNA. We could also dump the Hooters tour in golf and replace it with the LPGA.

 

[pollynova]

To you, sure.

I am sure some people think real estate staging to be a waste of time. So what? If I evaluated on children’s hobbies based on my interests, I’d eliminate the color pink, forbid all “kitties”, and ban all tears in the house.

It is apparently important to some children’s development, important enough for a father to whine about his daughter’s involvement.

If you break any activity down into its constituant parts, it becomes less than the sum of those parts. The gestaltism of sports, scouting, music, art, and the like is that there are valuable lessons we can teach our children beyond the simply steps that make up the act itself.

Well, first off, you can talk to any real estate agent and they will tell you that properly staged home sells faster and usually goes for more money. Second, staging homes is part of my job, it provides income. I do it for a paycheck. It’s not a hobby, it’s my job.

Granted, I’m not a big sports person. So I could be way off base on this, but isn’t part of sports learning things like sportsmanship? But the utter contempt for this girl, that she dare try to play a “man’s” game is insane. These are 11 year old kids. That’s 5th and 6th graders. So whether you are breaking it all down, or adding it up, it all comes out the same. This is a silly little game.

 

[pollynova]

You chatise high school boys for being insecure about being judged, then proceed to rant about being judged and hard it is?

You’re wrong. I chastise ANY boy or man who feels insecure just because he got beat by a girl. Aren’t sports supposed to teach you to be a good loser?

My rant was in response to someone saying that women can never have womanhood taken away from them. I was trying to point that society has a very narrow definition of what a woman “is.” Women are supposed to look, act, and think a certain way and if they don’t then they are un-feminine.

I think embracing the unqiue differences between men and women as God created them and teaching our youuth about how we each compliment one another is far more valuable than teaching a more ego-driven “I can do anything you can!” That is simply society talking. God doesn;t care about how much we accomplish. He cares about how much we try to serve Him to the best of our abilities and talents, and how we liveour roles our lives as He created us.

So, what would be an appropriate hobby for this 11 year old girl?

Those 11 year old boys she plays with, are they serving God because they are doing a “manly” thing?

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Well, first off, you can talk to any real estate agent and they will tell you that properly staged home sells faster and usually goes for more money. Second, staging homes is part of my job, it provides income. I do it for a paycheck. It’s not a hobby, it’s my job.

Granted, I’m not a big sports person. So I could be way off base on this, but isn’t part of sports learning things like sportsmanship? But the utter contempt for this girl, that she dare try to play a “man’s” game is insane. These are 11 year old kids. That’s 5th and 6th graders. So whether you are breaking it all down, or adding it up, it all comes out the same. This is a silly little game.

The point is you are expressing your opinion about sports, which is fine. Some people probably don’t consider systems engineering to be anything important. That’s fine with me, since I do it reghardless of people’s opinion. I think staging houses is very important to a good sale, but to simply dismiss their interests as trivial seems a bit much, especially when you admit you aren’t into sports.

I could well dismiss every interest of every kid ever using that argument as simply wastes of time.

Perhaps you don’t realize what it is like for an 11 year old boy to compete at his age against a girl. It is hardly something they enjoy or need, and there is no winning for the boys. It is a lose lose situation. That is a very important developmental age for young, aggressive boys.

Again, as long as you are okay with dibanding all coed sports in favor of letting them all try out and make the team, that would be more fair at least. Though I still am not a fan opf coed sports beyond a certain age, at least having open competition for one team for both genders would “level the playing field.”

 

[Rache]

This is when I need my patience.

I am becoming angrier and angrier, every day at this nations ILLogical thinking! Men and Women are different. Get over it.

Perhaps the school needs a “girl’s” football team? Oh … what’s that? Not enough girls are interested? Well … with all this ** ILLogical thinking ** , that surely means that the other little girls are simply being horrifically oppressed at home by their GENDER SPECIFIC parents, and have no idea that they (should) NEED to want what the almighty, superior MALE wants and to BE as closely assimilated to the male gender as possible. (???) Seriously, world! I am a woman! I am PROUD to be a woman! I am PROUD of who I am, and the beautiful things in this life that I am capable of! I am never inferior to “male”. I am his equal in love and God … my abilities are not his, and his are not mine. Here’s a word ILLogics enjoy tossing around, SCIENCE MUCH?!

This pseudo-feminism is DESTROYING women’s view of themselves! Sending messages that they are inferior until they prove they are EQUAL to men. It’s unabashedly despicable to do to a woman, to shame her, humiliate her, make her view herself as less than, or as repressed! And when she can not do as much as the boys can do physically, she will do what then … hate herself? Why don’t the girl’s parents … withdrawal the girl from THAT school, THAT school which THEY chose to send their child BECAUSE of it’s outstanding teachings … and go to a Protestant school?? Huh??

You can not PICK and CHOOSE which aspects of Catholicism you want to mutilate for your own personal comfort. Religion doctrine, is not here to make you comfortable. Do you think Jesus was comfortable on the cross? Do you think life should twist itself to suit YOUR internal dialogue of what it SHOULD be? If so, go on … and when you learn more, come back when it all begins to make sense to you. Your minds are horrifically sealed shut on these matters. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. I am so tired of “Catholics” taking on the cultural label, benefiting from the great moral standards implemented by Catholic Schools and communities, only to arrogantly and selfishly cherry pick battles and ideals to suit their own personal inner dialogue of what “SHOULD” be…

Perhaps the parents need to re-evaluate their beliefs, and change religions accordingly. These days, there are many slacker-FEEL GOOD religions to choose from.

Sorry … but I am so sick and tired of being told by these pseudo feminists, that as a woman, I am inferior, by these pseudo feminists who loathe being female! I am sick and tired of “Catholics” who know nothing about their “faith” or the Church, who get caught up in the nonsense of the day because they simply can’t HANDLE the faith, cherry picking and slandering, insulting and demonzing their so called Church.

 

[Lochias]

This is when I need my patience.

I am becoming angrier and angrier, every day at this nations ILLogical thinking! Men and Women are different. Get over it.

Perhaps the school needs a “girl’s” football team? Oh … what’s that? Not enough girls are interested? Well … with all this ** ILLogical thinking ** , that surely means that the other little girls are simply being horrifically oppressed at home by their GENDER SPECIFIC parents, and have no idea that they (should) NEED to want what the almighty, superior MALE wants and to BE as closely assimilated to the male gender as possible. (???) Seriously, world! I am a woman! I am PROUD to be a woman! I am PROUD of who I am, and the beautiful things in this life that I am capable of! I am never inferior to “male”. I am his equal in love and God … my abilities are not his, and his are not mine. Here’s a word ILLogics enjoy tossing around, SCIENCE MUCH?!

This pseudo-feminism is DESTROYING women’s view of themselves! Sending messages that they are inferior until they prove they are EQUAL to men. It’s unabashedly despicable to do to a woman, to shame her, humiliate her, make her view herself as less than, or as repressed! And when she can not do as much as the boys can do physically, she will do what then … hate herself? Why don’t the girl’s parents … withdrawal the girl from THAT school, THAT school which THEY chose to send their child BECAUSE of it’s outstanding teachings … and go to a Protestant school?? Huh??

You can not PICK and CHOOSE which aspects of Catholicism you want to mutilate for your own personal comfort. Religion doctrine, is not here to make you comfortable. Do you think Jesus was comfortable on the cross? Do you think life should twist itself to suit YOUR internal dialogue of what it SHOULD be? If so, go on … and when you learn more, come back when it all begins to make sense to you. Your minds are horrifically sealed shut on these matters. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. I am so tired of “Catholics” taking on the cultural label, benefiting from the great moral standards implemented by Catholic Schools and communities, only to arrogantly and selfishly cherry pick battles and ideals to suit their own personal inner dialogue of what “SHOULD” be…

Perhaps the parents need to re-evaluate their beliefs, and change religions accordingly. These days, there are many slacker-FEEL GOOD religions to choose from.

Sorry … but I am so sick and tired of being told by these pseudo feminists, that as a woman, I am inferior, by these pseudo feminists who loathe being female! I am sick and tired of “Catholics” who know nothing about their “faith” or the Church, who get caught up in the nonsense of the day because they simply can’t HANDLE the faith, cherry picking and slandering, insulting and demonzing their so called Church.

Well and truly said!

 

[Rico_S]

You can not PICK and CHOOSE which aspects of Catholicism you want to mutilate for your own personal comfort. Religion doctrine, is not here to make you comfortable…

Wait…This is a matter of Catholic Doctrine?

 

[Rache]

Wait…This is a matter of Catholic Doctrine?

No, it is in the context of a rant, Poindexter. But here’s your applause!!

 

[tafan]

All of this focus on what women can/can’t do relative to men physically, etc really befuddles me. Why are all of you missing the key point? It is not proper or moral for boys and girls to compete with each other in contact sports. The world has totally lost its mind.

 

[lerapt78]

All of this focus on what women can/can’t do relative to men physically, etc really befuddles me. Why are all of you missing the key point? It is not proper or moral for boys and girls to compete with each other in contact sports. The world has totally lost its mind.

I tend to agree. Has the girl ever attempted to organize an all-girl football team?

 

[quiet52]

There is a similar thread on this story on CAF’s “World News” forum.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=759148

This is what I wrote:

It seems the girl’s parents are wrongly trying to make this a matter of justice, simply because their daughter wants what she wants. Their daughter has no inherent “right” to join a boys’ sports team.

They do not seem to realize the potential harm toward their daughter, and toward the boys. She might only be 11 years old right now, but are they unaware of the differing developmental characteristics and needs of boys and girls? If their daughter were to remain on the boys’ team, how would they react when the boys inappropriately, and perhaps unintentionally, touch or bump the girl in sensitive areas when the girl’s menstrual periods begin? How would a boy feel, if he is the one who does so, and then is mocked by others for doing so? Are the parents and coaches truly so misinformed as to not realize the effects of boys’ testosterone levels and rapid rates of growth and strength during their pre-teen and teen years? And there are other sound reasons to argue against allowing girls to join boys in heavy-contact sports teams…

I knew a girl who tied knots and built campfires as well as her Eagle Scout brother. Does that mean that if she wanted to join the Boy Scouts, she should be allowed to?

Genuine justice serves the common good of society. The Archdiocese of Philadelphia is wisely serving the greater good than what the girl and her parents deem to be good. It is respecting genuine differences between sexes, it is respecting the dignity and genuine developmental and other needs of the youth under its care.

1807 Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the “virtue of religion.” Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. The just man, often mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures, is distinguished by habitual right thinking and the uprightness of his conduct toward his neighbor. "You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor."68 "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."69

1929 Social justice can be obtained only in respecting the transcendent dignity of man. The person represents the ultimate end of society, which is ordered to him:

What is at stake is the dignity of the human person, whose defense and promotion have been entrusted to us by the Creator, and to whom the men and women at every moment of history are strictly and responsibly in debt.35
1936 On coming into the world, man is not equipped with everything he needs for developing his bodily and spiritual life. He needs others. Differences appear tied to age, physical abilities, intellectual or moral aptitudes, the benefits derived from social commerce, and the distribution of wealth.41 The “talents” are not distributed equally.42

www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I am never inferior to “male”. I am his equal in love and God … my abilities are not his, and his are not mine?

Besides pregnancy, insemination, breastfeeding, etc… what is a “male” ability that is not present in females? What is a “female” ability that is not present in males?

This pseudo-feminism is DESTROYING women’s view of themselves! Sending messages that they are inferior until they prove they are EQUAL to men. It’s unabashedly despicable to do to a woman, to shame her, humiliate her, make her view herself as less than, or as repressed!

What if it’s true?

You can not PICK and CHOOSE which aspects of Catholicism you want to mutilate for your own personal comfort. Religion doctrine, is not here to make you comfortable. Do you think Jesus was comfortable on the cross? Do you think life should twist itself to suit YOUR internal dialogue of what it SHOULD be? If so, go on … and when you learn more, come back when it all begins to make sense to you. Your minds are horrifically sealed shut on these matters. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. I am so tired of “Catholics” taking on the cultural label, benefiting from the great moral standards implemented by Catholic Schools and communities, only to arrogantly and selfishly cherry pick battles and ideals to suit their own personal inner dialogue of what “SHOULD” be…

Even within the context of the rant, what are the references to ‘doctrine’ about?

Perhaps the parents need to re-evaluate their beliefs, and change religions accordingly. These days, there are many slacker-FEEL GOOD religions to choose from.

These parents need to become apostates because they want their girl, who is good at football, to be given a chance to continue playing the sport?

What?

Sorry … but I am so sick and tired of being told by these pseudo feminists, that as a woman, I am inferior, by these pseudo feminists who loathe being female! I am sick and tired of “Catholics” who know nothing about their “faith” or the Church, who get caught up in the nonsense of the day because they simply can’t HANDLE the faith, cherry picking and slandering, insulting and demonzing their so called Church.

How are these parents telling you that you are inferior?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

There is a similar thread on this story on CAF’s “World News” forum.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=759148

This is what I wrote:

Your post is interesting. One question, however. Why is that whenever it comes to “respecting the genuine differences between the sexes,” it always seems to be the female that is the odd man out? (No pun intended)

E.g., suffrage, property ownership, the right to work generally, workplace discrimination, etc.

 

[quiet52]

Your post is interesting. One question, however. Why is that whenever it comes to “respecting the genuine differences between the sexes,” it always seems to be the female that is the odd man out? (No pun intended)

E.g., suffrage, property ownership, the right to work generally, workplace discrimination, etc.

In this thread we’re talking about one issue, not the four issues + etc. which you list.

 

[BackToTheRock]

Your post is interesting. One question, however. Why is that whenever it comes to “respecting the genuine differences between the sexes,” it always seems to be the female that is the odd man out? (No pun intended)

E.g., suffrage, property ownership, the right to work generally, workplace discrimination, etc.

In this thread we’re talking about one issue, not the four issues + etc. which you list.

I think VeritasLuxMea’s point might be that the ways we relate to these issues have ramifications beyond the specific issue. Personally, if this is what he/she meant I think it’s a good point for to keep in mind when we discuss our faith.