Mormon doctrine in a nutshell!

[RebeccaJ]

Did I say that? I only made an observation that many people in this forum were hemming and hawing about the mormons having no catechism or official doctrine in a book. Now we know why. It has to do with truths yet to be discovered.

It is Mormons who hem and haw, and your OP is nothing but an excuse for sloppiness. A huge red flag that the whole thing, top to bottom, is man made. Made up. It is like listening to a child give excuses for something they don’t want to own up to.

 

[why_me]

Ever hear of false advertizing?

The BoM and the whole lot call the Church an “abomination.” There’s no “openness” to truth. It there were, they would accept our baptism, but they don’t. No. For Mormons, what is truth is what J. Smith says, unless brother Bringham says otherwise. Talk about a tyranny of relativism.

The catholic church does not accept mormon baptism and so that is a mute point. Actually, I made an interesting observation to my mormon friend on sunday. I said that a lot that the lds church has JS saying actually comes from what JS was reported to have said. There seems to be very little taken directly from him. The king follett discourse is an example of ‘reported’ comments that the JS made.

Joseph was not much of a writer. He hardly ever kept a journal and had others keep a journal for him. His mind was on building up the kingdom of god. That being said, there will be a massive pubication soon containing the paper of JS. I have no idea what it all contains but it will contain volumes.

The mormon church has not changed much during the years. The fundalmentals are still the same. But they do believe that more truth will be discovered. And yes, I am sure that mormons can find truths in the catholic catechism. The problem is: because of the catechism, catholics would be hard pressed to see truths in mormons understandings. If it is not in the book, it must be untrue would be the catholic understanding.

And that was what JS was trying to imply by his statement, but he was referring to the protestant sects mainly.

 

[why_me]

It is Mormons who hem and haw, and your OP is nothing but an excuse for sloppiness. A huge red flag that the whole thing, top to bottom, is man made. Made up. It is like listening to a child give excuses for something they don’t want to own up to.

Not really. It is just a different understanding of how god works. Nothing more.

 

[why_me]

**

Ok, so I did, and it sure sounds mutable to me:

“Latter-day Saints … are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time.”

Awhile back you posted an LDS statement from Salt Lake City that stated Mormon confirmed doctrine is contained in the four standard works: the Bible (as long as it is translated correctly), the BoM, the DOC, and the PGP. How does this reconcile with the above?

Why Me responded:

The first quotation sounds good. I see nothing wrong in it. All should believe that the work of god is continuous and never ending.

I think that mormon understanding is quite simple: The standard works set the tone for what the lds now have. Also, the lds would believe that guidance also comes from the lds leadership for the church as a whole. The Proclamation of the Family would be one such guidance. But each family is capable of receiving their own revelation for that particular family. Not to change church doctrine but to guide that family through good and bad times.

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html**

 

[jean8]

I think that this explains mormon doctrine in a nutshell. It comes from the priesthood manual where mormon men and women are studying the works of JS.

Teachings of Joseph Smith

The gospel of Jesus Christ embraces all truth; the faithful accept the truths God has revealed and put aside false traditions.
“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth, and truth greatly prevails over priestcraft. …

“… Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.”5

**In January 1843, Joseph Smith had a conversation with some people who were not members of the Church: “I stated that the most prominent difference in sentiment between the Latter-day Saints and sectarians was, that the latter were all circumscribed by some peculiar creed, which deprived its members the privilege of believing anything not contained therein, whereas the Latter-day Saints … are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time.”6 **

“I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth. I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes [limits], and say, ‘Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further’ [Job 38:11]; which I cannot subscribe to.”7

The key to mormon doctrine is in dark blue. This is what makes a great difference between mormon doctrine and catholic doctrine and the cause of much contention on these boards. Mormons have no catechism. But they do have a theology that can embrace truth. For mormons the catholic catechism would place limits on truth and knowledge.

The book Mormon Doctrine got into trouble with the mormon leadership because it attempted to limit truth by claiming a doctrine within a book.

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=86d720596a845110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0

Mormonisn is one of the largest cults in the world.
It was founded by Joseph Smith. a rascal who wrote up this fairy tale to an audience back in the 1860’s to an uneducated group of farmers.
You can look this up on the net, It’s interesting to read how some folks can be so gullible.

Pray for them,
jean8

 

[why_me]

We hold the Catechism to be true, and we also believe that more truth can be discovered about our doctrines; that our understanding of them can be expanded.

The big difference is that no new understanding will *ever *contradict previous truth. More may be understood about a doctrine - but the doctrine will *not *change.

We all know that two previous doctrines of the Mormon church, on polygyny and blacks in the priesthood, have changed.

The fact that these doctrines changed just in time to first, insure statehood for Utah, and second, to avoid losing non-profit status, do not seem to me to be a coincidence.

Right now, the Catholic Church is under fire from those who would *force *our medical charities to violate our beliefs by making them prescribe contraceptives and perform abortions. I doubt that even loss of non-profit status would force us to change those doctrines.

Big difference.

Ruthie

You have made some good points. But I, if I were a firmly committed mormon, could also see the hand of god in the changes that you mentioned.

You forget to mention that the US army was heading for Mormon country (Utah) not to bring peace but something else. Hence, polygamy was prohibited.

I gave a link about blacks and the priesthood. Did you listen to it?

ldsgenesisgroup.org/media.htm

 

[RC_Matt]

I think that mormon understanding is quite simple: The standard works set the tone for what the lds now have. Also, the lds would believe that guidance also comes from the lds leadership for the church as a whole.

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html

In other words, Joseph Smith gave himself and his successors license to make-up a religion and alter or “reinterpret” its doctrine as seen fit.

 

[Ruthie]

I gave a link about blacks and the priesthood. Did you listen to it?

ldsgenesisgroup.org/media.htm

No, I haven’t; I have ADD which means I forget what I hear, or miss a lot. When I read, I can go back and make sure I understand correctly. Is there a transcript? I’ll be glad to read it. Seriously.

Ruthie

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Mormon doctrine? In a nutshell? That better be one big fat, hilarious nut!!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not really. It is just a different understanding of how god works. Nothing more.

whyme, the Catholic Church recognizes the natural desire in all humans towards God. There are different understandings of God, throughout the world.

The Catholic Church is also the place where God entrusted the entire truth, of how God works. And though you may see a glimmer, a recognition, of this in Mormonism, it is not just a different understanding, it is a heterodox understanding.

The Catholic Church, thus a Catholic person, does not have room for error, not even in the name of ecumenism.

This does not mean that we should beat people over the head over their beliefs. But neither does it mean we should pat them on the head and tell them that it is ok for them to wallow in error.

In the case of Mormons, I do believe caution is needed. As a Catholic, I try to get better at this, as the Church also teaches we should be patient and not squash the desire for God that a person has. With Mormons, you squash their religious errors, and you often will wind up killing the desire for God at the same time.

 

[why_me]

No, I haven’t; I have ADD which means I forget what I hear, or miss a lot. When I read, I can go back and make sure I understand correctly. Is there a transcript? I’ll be glad to read it. Seriously.

Ruthie

The video is taken directly from a presentation. So, I think that you can read the presentation that the voice over is about.

 

[rich123456]

WhyMe: “There is still truth to be discovered”

I have found truth in Jesus because of His teachings, His Church. What can you ad to what he did for each of us? The truth He revealed to us is enough is it not? He is truth itself. Beleiveing in Him is enough for me. I am not Mormon anymore because the Jesus in the Mormon Church is not the Jesus of 2000 years of Christianity. I found more than one lie in the Mormon Church, I found many. One would be enough to leave it behind. I have yet to find one single lie, one single change from Apostolic Tradtion in Catholic Doctrine. Jesus said he would lead his church to all truth. I beleive Jesus, what He says. I see His truth hanging above our Altar each Sunday. The LDS faith reminds me of when I was a child dressing up like a doctor, pretending to be a doctor. Like when communion is given in this Church, bread and water. Not having a clue as to what they are doing. Holy Communion is given in the Catholic Church just as Jesus gave it, the miracle that would be with us until the end of time. It is Black and white.

God Bless
Rich
www.utahmisison.com

 

[mark_a]

**In January 1843, Joseph Smith had a conversation with some people who were not members of the Church: “I stated that the most prominent difference in sentiment between the Latter-day Saints and sectarians was, that the latter were all circumscribed by some peculiar creed, which deprived its members the privilege of believing anything not contained therein, whereas the Latter-day Saints … are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time.”6 **

What moral truths do LDS solely possess?

They can talk faith theology all they want, but if this faith theology doesn’t lead me to a superior moral theology, why would I bother?

 

[tundramom]

I am trying to show the difference between catholic and mormon understanding and why there is at times so much contention on this forum. Mormons and catholics come from different perspectives in regards to truth. For catholics, the truth is in the catechism. No more room for more truth.

But the mormons are more open-ended by claiming that more truth will yet be discovered.

why me,
I haven’t read all the responses, but I wanted to make my own.

The truth isn’t just a vague set of values or ideas. The truth isn’t yet to be discovered. The truth isn’t just an image of god that fits for the moment with more revealed as time goes by.

THE TRUTH was revealed on a cross on a hill outside the city of Jerusalem 2000 years ago in the form of a person fully God and fully Man. As He gave up His Spirit in obedience to His Father, He revealed for ALL TIME the full and irrepressible TRUTH. His last words revealed to all of us, “It is FINISHED”.

in Christ
Steph

 

[po18guy]

I note nothing resembling the testing of spirits in there.

Jeremiah 50:36 “A sword against her false prophets! They will become fools. A sword against her warriors! They will be filled with terror.”

Example: As was Joseph Smith when his pistol misfired three times in the Nauvoo Jail and his deceived followers were filled with terror.

Ezekiel 13:9 “My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Ezekiel 22:28 “Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says’-when the LORD has not spoken.”

Example: Joseph Smith

2 Peter 2:1 “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

Example: Joseph Smith

**1 John 4:1 ** Test the Spirits ] “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Revelation 16:13 “Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Matthew 24:11 “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Example: Joseph Smith

He was in prophecy!

 

[ronald_g_w]

I note nothing resembling the testing of spirits in there.

Jeremiah 50:36 “A sword against her false prophets! They will become fools. A sword against her warriors! They will be filled with terror.”

Example: As was Joseph Smith when his pistol misfired three times in the Nauvoo Jail and his deceived followers were filled with terror.

Ezekiel 13:9 “My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Ezekiel 22:28 “Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says’-when the LORD has not spoken.”

Example: Joseph Smith

2 Peter 2:1 “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

Example: Joseph Smith

**1 John 4:1 ** Test the Spirits ] “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Revelation 16:13 “Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”

Example: Joseph Smith

Matthew 24:11 “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Example: Joseph Smith

He was in prophecy!

Can I ask some questions

1. Are there any true Prophets or are they all false ? (test the spirit)
2. Did JS not profess that JESUS CHRIST came in the flesh and that he is the only begotten son of God in the flesh. ?
3. Does the Catholic Church have truth in its teachings?
4. Does God lead us into temptation.?

Just looking for simple answers YES / NO

 

[why_me]

What moral truths do LDS solely possess?

They can talk faith theology all they want, but if this faith theology doesn’t lead me to a superior moral theology, why would I bother?

I think that the catholic church and the mormon church brings people to the truth. The catholic newspaper listed below is one example:

vatican.va/news_services/or/or_eng/index.html

However, in the lds church, truth is being revealed also. The word of wisdom is one such truth, a truth if catholics would follow, there would be more healthy and peaceful catholic families in the world. Also, the lds leadership does give guidance about living life in the 21st century. And I can see no fault in the advice so far. But I see no fault in the pope’s advice either.

One must have an open heart to notice a truth that comes from god.

 

[ronald_g_w]

We hold the Catechism to be true, and we also believe that more truth can be discovered about our doctrines; that our understanding of them can be expanded.

The big difference is that no new understanding will *ever *contradict previous truth. More may be understood about a doctrine - but the doctrine will *not *change.

We all know that two previous doctrines of the Mormon church, on polygyny and blacks in the priesthood, have changed.

The fact that these doctrines changed just in time to first, insure statehood for Utah, and second, to avoid losing non-profit status, do not seem to me to be a coincidence.

Right now, the Catholic Church is under fire from those who would *force *our medical charities to violate our beliefs by making them prescribe contraceptives and perform abortions. I doubt that even loss of non-profit status would force us to change those doctrines.

Big difference.

Ruthie

I hope the Catholic Church does not change its stance and sticks to its Doctrine.
You have refered to two points of Mormon doctrine that have change that look suspect due to their timming? What if these were reversed and that a curse was placed on a certain group or that polygamy was reinstated, would we have the faith to accept the Lords call on these matters. Or are these things beyound the Lords capability ? These are the questions that I ask myself as I ponder about all of these things.

 

[why_me]

whyme, the Catholic Church recognizes the natural desire in all humans towards God. There are different understandings of God, throughout the world.

The Catholic Church is also the place where God entrusted the entire truth, of how God works. And though you may see a glimmer, a recognition, of this in Mormonism, it is not just a different understanding, it is a heterodox understanding.

The Catholic Church, thus a Catholic person, does not have room for error, not even in the name of ecumenism.

This does not mean that we should beat people over the head over their beliefs. But neither does it mean we should pat them on the head and tell them that it is ok for them to wallow in error.

In the case of Mormons, I do believe caution is needed. As a Catholic, I try to get better at this, as the Church also teaches we should be patient and not squash the desire for God that a person has. With Mormons, you squash their religious errors, and you often will wind up killing the desire for God at the same time.

Here is the problem: I can agree with you about the catholic church. However, one must have caution also. The catholic church, her representatives, have not been perfect in their treatment of others. Lets look at the life of Saint Bernedette. She was a great young girl who became a nun. And yet, if one reads about her treatment by her mother superior and the Mistress of Novices, one can see a lot of misery. The convent life was far from the desires of god, at least in the past. She was very mistreated in her convent life.

Also, I can see the same treatment with John of the Cross. His own friars put him in prison and mistreated him. We can see a lot of abuse in the catholic church in the past. And his friend Teresa of Avila was tiptoeing through the tulips with her books trying to write so that the Inquistors would not arrest her. These actions were far from the desires of god.

Now the mormon church is not perfect either, at least her people are not perfect. But I see no fault in the mormon teaching on how to do life but of course, I do have critical comments to make if I wanted to make them.

 

[why_me]

I note nothing resembling the testing of spirits in there.

Jeremiah 50:36 “A sword against her false prophets! They will become fools. A sword against her warriors! They will be filled with terror.”

Example: As was Joseph Smith when his pistol misfired three times in the Nauvoo Jail and his deceived followers were filled with terror.

It wasn’t his pistol. The pistol was given to him by his jailor so that he could defend himself. He went to the prison defenseless with a sense of doom. And he would have went alone if his brother did not volunteer to go with him along with John Taylor.

The pistol was a pea shooter.