Mormon FAQ!

[zerinus]

zerinus joined this Forum one year ago today. Have you poor people been putting up with all this for that long? How have you not gone crazy?

Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten about that. So happy aniversary to me then!
:clapping: :extrahappy: :bounce: :juggle:

Are you going to send me an aniversary card?

zerinus

 

[Philothea53]

Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten about that. So happy aniversary to me then!
:clapping: :extrahappy: :bounce: :juggle:

Are you going to send me an aniversary card?

zerinus

No, but I was wondering why you are still here. I get the distinct impression that you are not really here to defend your faith but that maybe you think you are drawing people toward mormonism. I haven’t read even one post that sounded like the person was agreeing with you at all, except maybe mcmullan and isn’t he already a mormon?

Having been there, done that - Head for the light, bud. Open your eyes. Whispering: Listen to that still small voice - it’s telling you to run, run, as fast as you can.

1.115 B I L L I O N, yes, thats billion, Catholics must know something you are missing out on! I challenge you, if you are truly so strong in your faith, I challenge you to join an RCIA class, Once you get your toes wet in the Tiber, you won’t go back.

 

[zerinus]

No, but I was wondering why you are still here.

Why shouldn’t I be here? One thing is for sure, I don’t need your permission to be here!

I get the distinct impression that you are not really here to defend your faith but that maybe you think you are drawing people toward mormonism.

I am here because I want to be here. Who are you to tell me whether I should or shouldn’t be here? You act like you own the place. I don’t think you do!

I haven’t read even one post that sounded like the person was agreeing with you at all, except maybe mcmullan and isn’t he already a mormon?

I guess I don’t agree with them either, so that makes us even. What has that got to do with anything?

1.115 B I L L I O N, yes, thats billion, Catholics must know something you are missing out on!

Yes, and 1 billion Catholics can be wrong! If it is a numbers’ game, there are also 1 billion Moslems in the world. What does that prove?

I challenge you, if you are truly so strong in your faith, I challenge you to join an RCIA class, Once you get your toes wet in the Tiber, you won’t go back.

Actually, I wouldn’t mind going to RCIA. I am sure It would be an educational exercise. But I don’t have the time to be honest.

zerinus

 

[Philothea53]

Why shouldn’t I be here? One thing is for sure, I don’t need your permission to be here!

No you don’t need my permission. Never said you did. Can you not answer a simple question with a simple answer?

I am here because I want to be here. Who are you to tell me whether I should or shouldn’t be here? You act like you own the place. I don’t think you do!

 

[mesenja]

Mark William Hofmann (born 7 December 1954), a disaffected member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was a prolific counterfeiter who murdered two people in Salt Lake City, Utah.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann

In 1857, Brigham Young declared that apostates would “become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil” (Journal of Discourse 5:332).
mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/white-and-delightsome-or-pure-and-delightsome-look-2-nephi-30-6

Until 1981 2 Nephi 30:6 in the Book of Mormon taught that dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) would eventually experience a change in the color of their skin should they embrace the Book of Mormon. This passage of Mormon scripture read:

“…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”

Mormon Apostle James Talmage noted that, “The Nephites suffered extinction about 400 A.D., but the Lamanites lived on in their degraded course, and are today extant upon the land as the American Indians” (Jesus the Christ, 23rd ed., p.49).
mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/dna-and-book-mormon-record

I hope that Rebecca does better.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I hope that Rebecca does better.

Rebecca has done better. As has Paul and Philothea.

This forum is rife with former mormons testifying as to the falseness and duplicity of the mormon belief system.

The changing ‘unchangeable’ Book of Mormon.

The assertions without scientific evidence (see the Smithsonian Institute’s web site on mormon ‘archeology’)

The lack of DNA evidence.

The lack of ANY evidence as to Joe Smith’s claims (his props, the reneging of his ‘witnesses’ on his ‘visions’)

The racial bigotry towards dark complected persons based upon mormon ‘scripture.’

The lack of proof about any allegation made by mormons concerning the early Church.

I am here to learn from our ‘new’ Catholics who have had the sense and push (praise to the Holy Spirit) to leave the mormon byzantine puzzle palace.

Their insights into that false pantheology (mormonism) where everyone is a god (or goddess or godlet) and gets his or her own planet is, to put it bluntly, mind numbing.

Why? Because of the great verbal gymnastics and word games (the tautology of “the BoM is true because the BoM says it is true”) that the mormon hierarchy bombards their members is a PERFECT PARALLEL to

ISLAM

And THAT, messenger or mesenja, is SCARY

Robert

 

[dosdog]

I hope that Rebecca does better.

Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith’s denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by “anti-Mormons” and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley’s dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine,
mormonwiki.org/index.php?title=Lying_for_the_Lord&

It is clear, in my view, that Joseph Smith behaved in classic philosopher king fashion, and that the Mormon “faithful history” policy discloses a group of modern philosopher kings who feel justified in telling pious lies. “Faithful history” is a form of Mormon censorship. It suppresses all information that does not encourage Mormons to be more obedient to current Mormon leaders. Hence, facts that strongly suggest Smith and other Mormon leaders are not trustworthy are airbrushed out of Mormon consciousness. mccue.cc/bob/spirituality.htm

I found the Mormon temple not at all like I had been taught to believe it would be. The temple ceremony was one of the main reasons I left the Mormon church. I soon realized the Mormon church was not the church I had been told it was or I thought it was. It certainly was not the church of God as I had been told. Many who came to the temple never wanted to come back. It was a very depressing experience for me and my wife and very sickening, especially if one believes that it was designed by God. I was ashamed of having served there, after I found out the truth. I realized I could no longer serve a God who was so changable, violent and deceptive.
home.teleport.com/~packham/temples3.htm

Orson Pratt proclaimed: “Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent” (The Seer, p. 255).
leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/onlytrue.html

Orson Pratt (September 19, 1811 – October 3, 1881) was a leader in the Latter Day Saint movement and an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles

LUCIFER: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.
home.teleport.com/~packham/endow84.htm

Former Mormon bishop explains the collapse of his faith
McCue said, “I read Mormon history as the professional historians write it, and realized that my religious leaders had misled me as to how Mormonism started, and [recognized]&a pattern of Mormon leadership deception [that] goes back to Mormonism’s beginnings with Joseph Smith.”

“The suppressed aspects of Mormon history that most troubled me indicated many instances in which Mormon leaders have deceived both their followers and the public about important matters. Joseph Smith was the worst in this regard. His tendency to exaggerate or lie when in a tight spot bears a striking resemblance to the practices of shady stock promoters I have on occasion met relative to my legal practice,” the attorney stated.

“Mormon leaders at the local level are sincere and generally unaware of the issues I had raised,” said McCue. And he says that though he is critical of LDS leaders he knows they can be “genuinely loving.” “They believe God’s will requires that they mislead their followers,” he explained.
rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon164.html

 

[mesenja]

I’m sorry that you do not take my statement as a complement, but I will stand by my contention that that there is NO historical evidence for the Book of Mormon. There IS extensive historical and forensic evidence that the Book of Mormon was largely plagarized from other contemporary sources as well as being produced by Jospeh Smith’s fertile imagination. IF you choose to believe a book with this little historical veracity, then that is your affair. Thank you for your support of Catholicism (which IS headed and founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ) though, perhaps you would like to inquire further into the absolute truth of Catholicism?

That is your right to do so. Just do me the favor of answering the following questions that you have avoided so far in giving a direct answer to.

1. What statistical methodology did you use to come to the conclusion that anyone who believes that the Book of Mormon is an ancient record is both ignorant or gullible?

2, How is it a compliment to call someone ignorant or gullible?

1. Why is it that when Jesus did not answer his critics with a direct answer or explanation He was not trying to deceive only instruct yet when Elder Ballard does exactly the same thing he is not practicing full disclosure but displays basic dishonesty?

I have read Catholic apologists like Sugensis,Keating,Madrid etc. I don’t claim that this has made me an expert on Catholicism. What it has done is strengthened my former belief that Protestantism is wrong. I have also found much that I agree with. As to being convinced of the absolute truth of Catholicism sorry but there is to many beliefs that are nonsensical.

 

[mesenja]

Rebecca has done better. As has Paul and Philothea.

This forum is rife with former Mormons testifying as to the falseness and duplicity of the Mormon belief system.

The changing ‘unchangeable’ Book of Mormon.

The assertions without scientific evidence (see the Smithsonian Institutes web site on Mormon ‘archeology’)

The lack of DNA evidence.

The lack of ANY evidence as to Joeseph Smith’s claims (his props,the reneging of his ‘witnesses’ on his ‘visions’)

The racial bigotry towards dark complexioned persons based upon Mormon ‘scripture.’

The lack of proof about any allegation made by Mormons concerning the early Church.

I am here to learn from our ‘new’ Catholics who have had the sense and push (praise to the Holy Spirit) to leave the Mormon byzantine puzzle palace.

Their insights into that false pantheology (Mormonism) where everyone is a god (or goddess or godlet) and gets his or her own planet is,to put it bluntly, mind numbing.

Why? Because of the great verbal gymnastics and word games (the tautology of “the Book of Mormon is true because the Book of Mormon says it is true”) that the Mormon hierarchy bombards their members is a PERFECT PARALLEL to

ISLAM

And THAT, messenger or Mesenja, is SCARY

Robert

Wasn’t that great to get all that venom out of your system?

What sect of Islam are you comparing us to Robert?Sunni,Shi’ite,Wahhabis,Suffis or Bahai?

Let me guess Robert you are comparing all Muslims and by default all Mormons to Islamic fascist terrorists.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Wasn’t that great to get all that venom out of your system?

What sect of Islam are you comparing us to Robert?Sunni,Shi’ite,Wahhabis,Suffis or Bahai?

Let me guess Robert you are comparing all Muslims and by default all Mormons to Islamic fascist terrorists.

Res Ipsa Loquitur (“The thing speaks for itself”)

Islam’s claim to fame is a refashioning of Judaism and Catholicism (the only form of Christianity then) into the ‘true faith’

Mormonism claims to be the ‘true’ church

Mohammed was illiterate as was Jos Smith. Both claimed an angel commanded them to write.

Both alleged ‘manuscripts’ are non-existent and thus unavailable for textual analysis.

The oldest Koran manuscript is the Cairo one: it does NOT have the diacritical marks indicating vowels and thus is subject to Syrio as well as Arabic word transposition.

Mormons claim ‘reformed Egyptian’ and show no proof.

Islam is extremely patriarchal as is Mormonism.

Both permit (via ‘revelation’ from their god) polygamy.

Both were founded as nationalistic movements (racial).

This is the basis, mesenja, for the comparison

Your post shows what you READ into other’s words.
Shameful display of uncharitableness.

But I hope and pray you see the light of Christ

Robert

 

[mesenja]

Penguins are black and white. Some old tv shows are black and white. Some penguins are old tv shows.

Logic:Another thing that penguins aren’t very good at.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Penguins are black and white. Some old tv shows are black and white. Some penguins are old tv shows.

Logic:Another thing that penguins aren’t very good at.

Are you related to Zerinus?

He doesn’t answer questions or statements about the ‘historical’ mormon church, either.

I got this burning in the bosom that you two are here to proselytize.

Robert

 

[mesenja]

Are you related to Zerinus?

He doesn’t answer questions or statements about the ‘historical’ Mormon church, either.

I got this burning in the bosom that you two are here to proselytize.

Robert

So far I have not read any from you. No I am not here proselytizing. I agree with what Philothea53 said to Zerinus:Aren’t you wasting precious proselytizing on deaf ears. And I don’t think that mocking my religious beliefs reflects on your Church very well.

 

[hosemonkey]

That is your right to do so. Just do me the favor of answering the following questions that you have avoided so far in giving a direct answer to.

1. What statistical methodology did you use to come to the conclusion that anyone who believes that the Book of Mormon is an ancient record is both ignorant or gullible?

2, How is it a compliment to call someone ignorant or gullible?

1. Why is it that when Jesus did not answer his critics with a direct answer or explanation He was not trying to deceive only instruct yet when Elder Ballard does exactly the same thing he is not practicing full disclosure but displays basic dishonesty?

I have read Catholic apologists like Sugensis,Keating,Madrid etc. I don’t claim that this has made me an expert on Catholicism. What it has done is strengthened my former belief that Protestantism is wrong. I have also found much that I agree with. As to being convinced of the absolute truth of Catholicism sorry but there is to many beliefs that are nonsensical.

Statistical methodology is not necessary to arrive at the conclusion that to believe something that there is absolutely no proof for is at best, gullibility or at worst, lack of intelligence. This has also been described as cognitive dissonance, being so blinded or brainwashed that no evidence to the contrary can be accomodated.

Secondly, the “elder’s” statement that “I answer the questions that he should have asked,” exibits a basic intent to evade or deceive.
This seems to be a basic character found in many mormon apologists.

I do agree with you that protestantism is wrong. mormonism is even more wrong.

 

[Philothea53]

So far I have not read any from you. No I am not here proselytizing. I agree with what Philothea53 said to Zerinus:Aren’t you wasting precious proselytizing on deaf ears. And I don’t think that mocking my religious beliefs reflects on your Church very well.

Please don’t twist what I said to suit your needs. I said that keeping in mind that THIS IS A CATHOLIC FORUM. In the Forum rules, you can read Conduct Rules:
6. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
7. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

 

[twosweetgirls]

^Those rules, along with several others, that zerinus has broken are the reason I reported him to a mod. His b.s. is getting old. Really old.

 

[PaulDupre]

mesenja,
Welcome to the forums. I am glad you’re here. Nothing is so effective at inoculating people against the deception of Mormonism as are Mormons themselves. Please feel free to be as nasty as you want to be. After all, we’re just filthy apostates and will wind up dead in the gutter anyway. So blaze away, mesenja.
God love you,

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

21 years out of Mormonism and still gutter-free!

 

[Philothea53]

Mormonism “currently” the true Church? thread has been closed pending review by Rachel Malloy.

 

[mesenja]

mesenja,
Welcome to the forums. I am glad you’re here. Nothing is so effective at inoculating people against the deception of Mormonism as are Mormons themselves. Please feel free to be as nasty as you want to be. After all, we’re just filthy apostates and will wind up dead in the gutter anyway. So blaze away, Mesenja.
God love you,

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

21 years out of Mormonism and still gutter-free!

Congratulations on being gutter-free and finally seperated from those indecent Mormons.

 

[mesenja]

Statistical methodology is not necessary to arrive at the conclusion that to believe something that there is absolutely no proof for is at best,gullibility or at worst,lack of intelligence. This has also been described as cognitive dissonance,being so blinded or brainwashed that no evidence to the contrary can be accommodated.

Secondly,the “Elders” statement that "I answer the questions that he should have asked,"exhibits a basic intent to evade or deceive. This seems to be a basic character found in many Mormon apologists.

I do agree with you that Protestantism is wrong. Mormonism is even more wrong.

One question answered and two to go. Congratulations Hosemonkey but stop monkeying around and answer the other two. As I do not know what Elder you are referring to I can not answer your question specifically. However I am assuming that you are referring to President Henry D. Moyle. The television interviewer was antagonistic towards the Church. Instead of entering into a debate with him he followed the example of the Savior. He taught him the principles of the gospel that lay behind the criticism. You are also starting out with a false assumption that leads to a wrong conclusion. We have evidence but not proof that the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be. As you describe us as brainwashed this leads to another question. Have you any evidence of this or is this another one of your truths that you hold to be self evident?