Mormon 'Scripture' on those brothers: Jesus and Lucifer

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Cyprian - Treatise 6.11 Therefore of this mercy and grace the Word and Son of God is sent as the dispenser and master, who by all the prophets of old was announced as the enlightener and teacher of the human race. He is the power of God,He is the reason, He is His wisdom and glory; He enters into a virgin; with the co-operation of the Holy Spirit, He is endued with flesh; God is mingled with man. This is our God, this is Christ, who, as the mediator of the two, puts on man that He may lead them to the Father. What man is, Christ was willing to be, that man may be what Christ is. (ANF 5.468).
Methodius - On the Passion of Christ 2 For the Word suffered, being in the flesh affixed to the cross, that He might bring man, who had been deceived by error, to His supreme and godlike majesty. (ANF 6.400).
Lactantius - The Divine Institutes 2.9 He produced a Spirit like to Himself, who might be endowed with the perfections of God the Father. …Then He made another being, in whom the disposition of the divine origin did not remain. …For he envied his predecessor, who through his steadfastness is acceptable and dear to God the Father. This being, who from good became evil by his own act, is called by the Greeks diabolus: we call him accuser, because he reports to God the faults to which he himself entices us. God, therefore, when He began the fabric of the world, set over the whole work that first and greatest Son, and used Him at the same time as a counsellor and artificer, in planning, arranging, and accomplishing, since He is complete both in knowledge, and judgement, and power.(ANF 7.52-53).
Lactantius - The Divine Institutes 6.23 If anyone can incline toward this and strive after it, the Lord will own him as a servant, the Master will acknowledge this man as His disciple. The man will triumph over the earth. He will be exactly similar to God (hic erit consimilis Deo) who has embraced the virtue of God. (Latin text ANF 7.190).
Athanasius - De Incarnation 54 For He was made man that we might be made God.(NF 4.65).
*Athanasius - Defence of the Nicene Definition 14 …the Word was made flesh in order to offer up this body for all, and that we, partaking of His Spirit, might be deified, a gift which we could not otherwise have gained than by His clothing Himself in our created body, for hence we derive our name of “men of God” and “men in Christ.” But as we, by receiving the Spirit, do not lose our own proper substance, so the Lord, when made man for us, and bearing a body, was no less God; for He was not lessened by the envelopment of the body, but rather deified it and rendered it immortal.(NF 4.159).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 1.11.38 …but rather He Himself has made us sons of the Father, and deified men by becoming Himself man.(NF 4.329).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 1.11.39 And how can there be deifying apart from the Word and before Him?(NF 4.329).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 2.21.70 Whence the truth shews us that the Word is not of things originate, but rather Himself their Framer. For therefore did He assume the body originate and human, that having renewed it as its Framer, he might deify it in Himself, and thus might introduce us all into the kingdom of heaven after His likeness.(NF 4.386).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 3.25.23 And the work is perfected, because men, redeemed from sin, no longer remain dead; but being deified, have in each other, by looking at Me, the bond of charity.(NF 4.406).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 3.25.25 …and as we are sons and gods because of the Word in us, so we shall be in the Son and in the Father, and we shall be accounted to have become one in Son and in Father…(NF 4.407).
Athanasius - Contra Arians 3.26.33 …no longer do these things touch the body, because of the Word who has come in it, but they are destroyed by him, and henceforth men no longer remain sinners and dead according to their proper affections, but having risen according to the Word’s power, they abide ever immortal and incorruptible. Whence also, whereas the flesh is born of Mary Bearer of God(), He Himself is said to have been born, who furnishes to others an origin of being; in order that He may transfer our origin into Himself, and we may no longer, as mere earth, return to earth, but as being knit into the Word from heaven, may be carried to heaven by Him. Therefor in like manner not without reason has He transferred to Himself the other affections of the body also; that we, no longer as being men, but as proper to the Word, may have share in eternal life. For no longer according to our former origin in Adam do we die; but henceforward our origin and all infirmity of flesh being transferred to the Word, we rise from the earth, the curse form sin being removed, because of Him who is in us, and who has become a curse for us. And with reason; for as we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened; the flesh no longer earthly, but being henceforth made Word(   - this strong term is here applied to human nature generally; it is also used to describe our Lord’s flesh), by reason of God’s Word who for our sake ‘became flesh.’(NF 4.412)
Athanasius - Contra Arians 3.28.48 For now the flesh had risen and put off its mortality and been deified.(He is here speaking of Christ’s flesh). (NF 4.420).
 
Hilary of Poitiers - De Trinitate 9.38 For the object to be gained was that man might become God. But the assumed manhood could not in any wise abide in the unity of god, unless, through unity with God, it attained to unity with the nature of God. Then, since God the Word was in the nature of God, the Word made flesh would in its turn also be in the nature of God. (PNF 9.167)
Hilary of Poitiers - De Trinitate 10.7 For when God was born to be man the purpose was not that the Godhead should be lost, but that, the Godhead remaining, man should be born to be God. Thus Emmanuel is His name, which is God with us, that God might not be lowered to the level of man, but man raised to that of God. (PNF 9.183-184)
Gregory Nazianzen - The Third Theological Oration(Oration 29.19) While His inferior Nature, the Humanity, became God, because it was united to God, and became One Person because the Higher Nature prevailed … in order that I too might be made God so far as He is made Man.(PNF 7.308)
G.N. - The Fourth Theological Oration(30.3) What greater destiny can befall man’s humility than that he should be intermingled with God, and by this intermingling should be deified.(PNF 7.310)
G.N. - (30.14) For there is One God, and One Mediator between God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus. For He still pleads even now as Man for my salvation; for He continues to wear the Body which He assumed, until He make God by the power of His Incarnation.(PNF 7.315)
G.N. - The Fifth Theological Oration(31.4) If He is not from the beginning, He is in the same rank with myself, even though a little before me; for we are both parted from Godhead by time. If He is in the same rank with myself, how can He make me God, or join me with Godhead?(PNF 7.319)
G.N. - Oration 34.12 I dare to utter something, O Trinity; and may pardon be granted to my folly, for the risk is to my soul. I too am an Image of God, of the Heavenly Glory, though I be placed on earth. I cannot believe that I am saved by one who my equal. If the Holy Ghost is not God, let Him first be made God, and then let Him deify me His equal.(PNF 7.337)
G.N. - Oration 39.17 And how is He not God, if I may digress a little, by whom you too are made God?(PNF 7.358)
G.N. - Oration 40:45 …impassible in His Godhead, passible in that which He assumed; as much Man for your sake as you are made God for His.
Basil - On the Spirit 9.23 Hence comes foreknowledge of the future, understanding of mysteries, apprehension of what is hidden, distribution of good gifts, the heavenly citizenship, a place in the chorus of angels, joy without end, abiding in God, the being made like to God, and, the highest of all, the being made God.(PNF 8.16)
(see 1.2 …so far as possible with human nature, to be made like unto God. PNF 8.2)
 
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Zakuska:
You Mormon blasphemers are so smart. If it wasn’t for the fact that your entire religion was made up, and that you people lie for fun…well idk.

I have a question: Would you agree that humans are essentially sinful?
 
No one really cares. We aren’t going to fall for your Mormon witchcraft and somehow believe that the lies you tell are true. It’s so sad that you have tricked so many people into eternal damnation.
 
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holdencaulfield:
Would you agree that humans are essentially sinful?
Of course we would…

Rom. 3: 23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 
Of course we would…

Rom. 3: 23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Good. So if we humans can become gods, then how would you expect a sinful god to act? You would expect them to act sinfully. So wouldn’t there be wars amongst the gods for power, because power is what all sinful people want. Why do the gods not fight? Tell me this.
 
They did fight… and one and his minions where cast out.

Have you never heard of the “War in Heaven”?

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Gods fight all the time. God is fightin the “GOD” of this world right now. (2 Corinthians 4:4)

Did you read any of those quotes by the mea who brought us Nicea and the Bible we have?

All of them declare it is mans destination to become “god”.

John agrees…

1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
 
They did fight… and one and his minions where cast out.

Have you never heard of the “War in Heaven”?

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Gods fight all the time. God is fightin the “GOD” of this world right now.
Your taking this out of context. This war was between God and the evil angels. Yes you are true their is war in heaven, and on earth. I was referring to war between gods. Do you believe that your gods fight?
 
And you are not understand what an Angel is.

Angels are called “gods” in the Hebrew Bible, (aka the old testament.) Satan is called by Paul “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4)

So yes GODS do fight, per John in Rev 12.

Care to comment on all those Christians who taught men can become gods? These are the same guys who voted upon which books should be in the bible.

Sheesh!.. the Cathecism on the Vaticans web site even egrees.! 🤷
 
tsk tsk poor ontology aggravated by worse semantics in taking everything out of context to promote Satan’s first/best/biggest lie “you shall be as Gods”.

all of those snippets of the ECFs do NOT tell us that the creator and the created are alike or ever can be. they reinforce that the only the creator can place us in his presence, infuse us with his grace and in the end allow us to participate in HIS godhood. we are like the iron in the fire. by God placing us there we become bright and hot but we are never flame. if removed from the source we would quickly lose those qualities.

The mormon doctrine requires that God was once a man just like us and not divine, worshiping in fact his own God in an endless line. it then tempts us with the opportunity to become a God ourselves in an endless line forward with our God then becoming a God of Gods and then us doing the same as the next generation becomes exalted. this was never the teaching of the ECF’s.

what mormonism propses as a “restoration” of the original Christian church is really all new. Even LDs prophets claim line upon line new doctrine/practices as times require as justification for their role. The “restoration” is really just a claim to restored authority. we see no evidence of uniquely mormon doctrines/practices in the BoM much less Bible or ECF’s.

we are creations of the one and only God that ever existed anywhere or ever will exist.
 
tsk tsk poor ontology aggravated by worse semantics in taking everything out of context to promote Satan’s first/best/biggest lie “you shall be as Gods”.
So you’re calling God a Liar?

Gen. 3: 22
22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

John must be a Liar too…

1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Sounds like you have lost all HOPE… that God is able to fuffill his promises. To MAKE us his Children and Joint Heirs with Christ. (Aka gods) or as Athanaias says: " God became man to make man god"
 
And you are not understand what an Angel is.
Sure I do. They are messengers of God. They are not divine, they are creatures like you and me. Angel means messenger in Greek. St. Paul urges us not to worship them, as we can only worship God.

“Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.” (Colossians 2:18)
Angels are called “gods” in the Hebrew Bible, (aka the old testament.) Satan is called by Paul “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4)
He does, although he does not mean it literally. By god he means power and strength. People even today will call someone a “god” and not mean it literally. God also says that there is only one God, Him.

“The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
So yes GODS do fight, per John in Rev 12.
No God and the good angels fight against the evil angels.
Care to comment on all those Christians who taught men can become gods? These are the same guys who voted upon which books should be in the bible.
Could you please show me one Early Church Father who was not a heretic who believed in polytheism? Don’t quote it, just tell me who and in what document, I will look it up on my own.
Sheesh!.. the Cathecism on the Vaticans web site even egrees.! 🤷
Could you please show me where?
 
Gen. 3: 22
22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
No he was saying the humans now know the difference between good and evil as God does.
1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
St. John refers to us a children of God, because yes God created us. That does not mean that we are gods. It is just a phrase used to show people in God’s favor. Look it up, it’s in the Old Testament.
Sounds like you have lost all HOPE… that God is able to fuffill his promises. To MAKE us his Children and Joint Heirs with Christ. (Aka gods) or as Athanaias says: " God became man to make man god"
Again, God promises us that if we remain faithful we will have a place in Heaven with Him. He does not say that we will become gods. He says that people who die will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, not become gods.
 
what mormonism propses as a “restoration” of the original Christian church is really all new. Even LDs prophets claim line upon line new doctrine/practices as times require as justification for their role. The “restoration” is really just a claim to restored authority. we see no evidence of uniquely mormon doctrines/practices in the BoM much less Bible or ECF’s.

we are creations of the one and only God that ever existed anywhere or ever will exist
Quite True.
 
Sure I do. They are messengers of God. They are not divine, they are creatures like you and me. Angel means messenger in Greek. St. Paul urges us not to worship them, as we can only worship God.

“Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.” (Colossians 2:18)
Hmmm thats news to the Pslamist

Psalm 8:5 says that God made man a little lower than the angels (elohim).
He does, although he does not mean it literally. By god he means power and strength. People even today will call someone a “god” and not mean it literally. God also says that there is only one God, Him.
“The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Is that why Duet 32:8 was edited to get rid of the reference to the “sons of God”?
No God and the good angels fight against the evil angels.
and as weve already seen from the Pslamist… “good Angles” are Imortal beings called (Elohim) gods.
Could you please show me one Early Church Father who was not a heretic who believed in polytheism? Don’t quote it, just tell me who and in what document, I will look it up on my own.
Justin Marytr - Dialog with Trypho

Speeks of TWO Gods in Number united in will.

The problem with what you ask… is Later councils and the creeds they declared ealier Christians Heretics. But the problem is the fallacy of the Victors writing the History. Justin at the time was VERY orthodox.
You’d be more convincing if it weren’t for Vatican II…

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79** "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81 **

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm
 

Mormons believe that all souls, or spirits of us humans, were born of a heavenly mother (a goddess) before the creation of the earth. As such, we’re all brothers and sisters in spirit, from before the creation of the earth…
I’m a cradle Catholic and I’ve been around Mormons most of my life; I find that I often know more about the actual Mormon dogma than the missionaries themselves. I have not, however, ever been able to get a straight or consistent answer on “heavenly mother.” Nobody seems to know too much about her. Assuming a man makes it to the celestial heaven, he is then expected to take multiple wives. Under the doctrine of eternal progression, he can then advance to become a god of his own planet, and then populate that planet with spirit children by his multiple wives. Seeing as the god of our planet is supposed to be a glorified man from another planet, and assuming that there is only one planet per god, he would then have multiple wives with which to populate earth. Heavenly mother, however, is always referred to in the singular; should there not be numerous heavenly mothers - or is the solar system kolob somehow unique?
 
Hmmm thats news to the Pslamist

Psalm 8:5 says that God made man a little lower than the angels (elohim).
That doesn’t mean a god.
Is that why Duet 32:8 was edited to get rid of the reference to the “sons of God”?
Show me record of it being changed. And again a son of God, just shows that we are people in favor of God.
and as weve already seen from the Pslamist… “good Angles” are Imortal beings called (Elohim) gods.
“You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings.” (Psalm 8:5)

Being immortal does not make one a god. We all know that humans have an immortal soul.
Justin Marytr - Dialog with Trypho
What verse please?
Speeks of TWO Gods in Number united in will.
Again, what verse, I’m not going to look through the entire thing?
 
I’m a cradle Catholic and I’ve been around Mormons most of my life; I find that I often know more about the actual Mormon dogma than the missionaries themselves. I have not, however, ever been able to get a straight or consistent answer on “heavenly mother.” Nobody seems to know too much about her. Assuming a man makes it to the celestial heaven, he is then expected to take multiple wives. Under the doctrine of eternal progression, he can then advance to become a god of his own planet, and then populate that planet with spirit children by his multiple wives. Seeing as the god of our planet is supposed to be a glorified man from another planet, and assuming that there is only one planet per god, he would then have multiple wives with which to populate earth. Heavenly mother, however, is always referred to in the singular; should there not be numerous heavenly mothers - or is the solar system kolob somehow unique?
The only place Ive ever seen this written down is in an unoffical Biogbraphy of Joseph Fielding Smith.

PS. A man with out a woman nor a woman without a man can become a God. They are two halfs of a whole. (Ie One Flesh) They are Gods… because they cvan reproduce.

Read nmore here: scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76/58#58
 
I’m a cradle Catholic and I’ve been around Mormons most of my life; I find that I often know more about the actual Mormon dogma than the missionaries themselves. I have not, however, ever been able to get a straight or consistent answer on “heavenly mother.” Nobody seems to know too much about her. Assuming a man makes it to the celestial heaven, he is then expected to take multiple wives. Under the doctrine of eternal progression, he can then advance to become a god of his own planet, and then populate that planet with spirit children by his multiple wives. Seeing as the god of our planet is supposed to be a glorified man from another planet, and assuming that there is only one planet per god, he would then have multiple wives with which to populate earth. Heavenly mother, however, is always referred to in the singular; should there not be numerous heavenly mothers - or is the solar system kolob somehow unique?
It’s a mistake in the Mormon doctrine. When Joseph Smith was making it up, he must have messed up and forgot to get that straighted out.
 
Explain this to me. This seems like a contradiction to me at least.
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
This seems like one God to me. Lets look else where.
Section 121:32
32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.
Oops looks like a big contradiction. Could you please explain this to me. Don’t cite something else, just explain it to me.
 
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