Mormon 'Scripture' on those brothers: Jesus and Lucifer

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I understand it. And I reject it out right. Especialiy in all the one substance mumbo-jumbo.

He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things,–numerically, I mean, not[distinct] in will. -Justin

*2. But if any one, on hearing that the Father and the Son are two, misrepresent us as preaching two Gods [Note I], (for this is what some feign to themselves, and forthwith cry out scoffingly, “You hold two Gods,”) we must answer to such, If to acknowledge Father and Son, is to hold two Gods, it instantly [Note 6] follows that to confess but one, we must deny the Son and Sabellianise. For if to speak of two, is to fall into Gentilism, therefore if we speak of one, we must fall into Sabellianism. But this is not so; perish the thought! but, as when we say that Father and Son are two, we still confess one God, so when we say that there is one God, let us consider Father and Son two, while they are one in the Godhead, and in the Father’s Word, being indissoluble and indivisible and inseparable from Him. And let the fire and the radiance from it be a similitude of man, which are two in being and in appearance, but one in that its radiance is from it indivisibly. - Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria
*
 
Zakuska said:
I understand it. And I reject it out right. Especialiy in all the one substance mumbo-jumbo.

He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things,–numerically, I mean, not[distinct] in will. -Justin
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Yes St. Justin Martyr is a good example of a strong Catholic Apologist. He agrees with all of our doctrine. I don’t care how long you take him out of context, I’m looking at his works right now, and can see what he really means.
 
I am enjoying this conversation, because it strengthens my faith, however I have answered all of your questions I believe. You have not answered all of mine. Could you please.

Please answer my questions. I believe they were:

Post #40

Post #41

Post #44

Thanks.
 
Zakuska said:
I understand it. And I reject it out right. Especialiy in all the one substance mumbo-jumbo.

He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things,–numerically, I mean, not[distinct] in will. -Justin

*2. But if any one, on hearing that the Father and the Son are two, misrepresent us as preaching two Gods [Note I], (for this is what some feign to themselves, and forthwith cry out scoffingly, “You hold two Gods,”) we must answer to such, If to acknowledge Father and Son, is to hold two Gods, it instantly [Note 6] follows that to confess but one, we must deny the Son and Sabellianise. For if to speak of two, is to fall into Gentilism, therefore if we speak of one, we must fall into Sabellianism. But this is not so; perish the thought! but, as when we say that Father and Son are two, we still confess one God, so when we say that there is one God, let us consider Father and Son two, while they are one in the Godhead, and in the Father’s Word, being indissoluble and indivisible and inseparable from Him. And let the fire and the radiance from it be a similitude of man, which are two in being and in appearance, but one in that its radiance is from it indivisibly. - Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria
*
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Again, what you further posted is proof that St. Justin Martyr is a strong Catholic Apologist. Besides if you believe in total apostasy. Then why would you use his material? Wouldn’t you believe that everything he says is false.
 
Not in the least… since I beleive the Apostasy happend gradualy over the past two millenia.

Which is shown with each new Catholic creed coming out and declaring those who came before as Heretics becuase they held to the “true faith delivered to the Apostles”, and didn’t keep up to all the changes and Apostasy happening around them.
 
Zakuska said:
Not in the least… since I beleive the Apostasy happend gradualy over the past two millenia.

Which is shown with each new Catholic creed coming out and declaring those who came before as Heretics becuase they held to the “true faith delivered to the Apostles”, and didn’t keep up to all the changes and Apostasy happening around them.
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That’s not what Mormons believe. They believe that total apostasy happened after the Twelve died. I’m really not very much interested in debating with you, because you wont even answer my other questions. If we can’t keep this fair, it’s a one sided debate, and not fair for me. I was having fun before, however I’m going to quit if you don’t answer my questions and keep this debate two sided.
 
2. But if any one, on hearing that the Father and the Son are two, misrepresent us as preaching two Gods [Note I], (for this is what some feign to themselves, and forthwith cry out scoffingly, “You hold two Gods,”) we must answer to such, If to acknowledge Father and Son, is to hold two Gods, it instantly [Note 6] follows that to confess but one, we must deny the Son and Sabellianise. For if to speak of two, is to fall into Gentilism, therefore if we speak of one, we must fall into Sabellianism. But this is not so; perish the thought! but, as when we say that Father and Son are two, we still confess one God, so when we say that there is one God, let us consider Father and Son two, while they are one in the Godhead, and in the Father’s Word, being indissoluble and indivisible and inseparable from Him. And let the fire and the radiance from it be a similitude of man, which are two in being and in appearance, but one in that its radiance is from it indivisibly. - Athanasius, Archbishop of Alexandria
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This is perfect LDS doctrine! What exactly are they ONE in?

WILL only!

1 Cor. 6: 17
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I’ll answer your questions shortly. Its time to head home from work.

He’s almost recounting Joseph Smiths first vision! The SMILITUDE is the appearance of two men!
 
Zakuska said:
This is perfect LDS doctrine! What exactly are they ONE in?
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That’s not what I hear. If that is true then Catholic doctrine and Mormon doctrine are the same. They are not.

James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, 1984) p.49

[10] Here Talmage is referencing 3 Nephi 11:27, 36.

James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, 1984) p.40

Find out what you believe.
 
holdencaulfield said:
That’s not what I hear. If that is true then Catholic doctrine and Mormon doctrine are the same. They are not.

James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, 1984) p.49

[10] Here Talmage is referencing 3 Nephi 11:27, 36.

James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, 1984) p.40

Find out what you believe.
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James Talmage is dead. I disagree with quite a bit of what he wrote. Nice try. though.

AOF-
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
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Did you notice that Athanasias confirms Joseph Smiths first vision? God appears in the Similitude of Two men inside a radiant light?

And let the fire and the radiance from it be a similitude of man, which are two in being and in appearance, but one in that its radiance is from it indivisibly. - Athanasius
 
Rbt_Southwell said:
"We need a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send? Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, ‘Here am I, send me.’ " [Abraham 3:27]

"Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, 'Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it.’ " [Moses 4:1]

I don’t see anything like THIS in the Scriptures!

What does this mean???

Robert
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Dear Robert,

I don’t understand what do you mean? It implies that Satan was not the cause of all sins. If Satan wasn’t, then who tricked human to commit sin?
 
Zakuska said:
James Talmage is dead. I disagree with quite a bit of what he wrote. Nice try. though.

AOF-

Did you notice that Athanasias confirms Joseph Smiths first vision? God appears in the Similitude of Two men inside a radiant light?

And let the fire and the radiance from it be a similitude of man, which are two in being and in appearance, but one in that its radiance is from it indivisibly. - Athanasius
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Where do you think he copied it from.
 
Please show and link the official LDS teaching on the Trinity. Otherwise I have a hard time understanding what you believe.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Please show and link the official LDS teaching on the Trinity. Otherwise I have a hard time understanding what you believe.
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The LDS don’t beleive in the Trinity.

They beleive in God the eternal father and is his son Jesus Chirst and in the Holy Ghost.

They are three divine beings in One Godhead.

Just as Adam and Eve are Two Mortal beings in One Flesh.

And just how Athanasius explains it.
 
Zakuska said:
The LDS don’t beleive in the Trinity.

They beleive in God the eternal father and is his son Jesus Chirst and in the Holy Ghost.

They are three divine beings in One Godhead.
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So these are your exact beliefs about this? Do you believe that Christ and the Holy Spirit were created or are eternal?
 
1841 Orson Pratt published a booklet titled, An
Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions. He
related that when Smith was “about fourteen or fifteen
years old” he was praying in the woods when
“two glorious personages” appeared. There was no
indication that they were the Father and Son.
 
1864 Nov. 15—A year later, Apostle Smith
seemed to be describing the vision in a more traditional
way: “When the Lord appeared to Joseph
Smith…He [Joseph] thus describes the incident: ‘In
the spring of 1820…I saw a pillar of light…I saw
two personages…This is my beloved son, hear
him.’” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, pp.1-2)
 
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