Mormons become God's after death....

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Some say the main arguement leading to the Nicene Creed was between the Greek words “homoousios” (same substance) and “homoiousios” (similar substance). The difference is the Greek letter “i” or “iota”. The arguement was over one iota.

Arius and Athanasius were opponents competing to promote their views. Arius believed the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were of “similar substance” while Athanasius believed they were of the “same substance”. The church was split on this doctrine and many prominent people including Constantius II and Valens were Arians.

How could the very nature of God be in question around 325 AD? This seems like an essential basic doctrine that every Christian should know the answer to. Some try to minimize this, but this was a big debate. Enough so that Emporer Constantine was concerned it would split the church or divide Rome.

If this were to happen during the days of Christ, the apostles would have put an immediate end to it by receiving revelation directly from God. Who was leading the church in 325 AD? Where were the apostles and prophets? All that was left was the role of bishop passed down through the centuries.

Constantine put an end to the debate when he gathered all the bishops to the Council of Nicea and created the Nicene Creed. Arius and his followers were exiled and books were burned. It was settled that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were of the “same substance”.

Centuries later, bishops were STILL not satisfied with this new doctrine voted on through pressure of the Roman Emporer. The doctrine was then amended to satisfy all by saying God was BOTH three AND one. This completely confuses everything. It is impossible to have faith in a God you cannot understand. This is the Athanasian Creed that most Catholics and Protestants follow today. Yes, the Protestants who wanted to reform the Catholic Church because they felt it was corrupted continued it’s basic doctrines. Was this new revelation? I thought revelation had ended?

I contend that there are three Gods – the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. I believe this true doctrine was changed by those in power.

John 14:28 “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Matt 3:16-17 “16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Jesus did not see himself descending, nor did he talk to himself.

John 17:11 “And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.”

Here Jesus is giving the intercessory prayer the night before his death. He is praying to his Father asking that his disciples may be ONE the same way he and his Father are ONE. The disciples cannot merge together into ONE substance. To be one means to be unified in purpose and in harmony. I don’t know of any scripture that can be more clear.
chris2009, please research more about the Trinity before mentioning straw men arguments. Trinitarians don’t believe that Jesus saw Himself descending, or that He was talking/praying to Himself. Nor do we believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit merge together into one substance. The Trinity begins (or ends) with the belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate, distinct Persons, not one Person. Therefore, if you think we believe that Jesus saw Himself ascend, or that He was praying to Himself, you aren’t talking about our actual beliefs. That is a Unitarian/Oneness Pentecostal position, which we do not hold.

Also, btw, we don’t believe that all revelation ended. All people can receive revelations, and many of our canonized saints were prophets and prophetesses (the Bible speaks of female prophets as well).
 
Some say the main arguement leading to the Nicene Creed…
**…Lemme guess? (drumroll) …are those who have no idea of Christianity?

LoL…like mormons?

Big surprise!!!:rolleyes:**
What prize did I win?
 
One of the sadest things is when people are sarcastic to people who are telling the truth to them, who turn on a dead ear all i can say is someday we will all meet out meker amd we will know alot that we didn;'t know before. I have to go to bed Good Night all you wonderful people You are Loved! Nancy
Yes. I feel the love all the way from here, Nancy. Any more warm fuzzies from you and I’ll need to get the sweaters out of the cedar chest earlier than usual.
 
I was told Jesus would rule his kingdom for you people from Utah that his new Jerusalem was going to be there??
The tenth “Article of Faith” of the Mormon church reads:
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
Joseph Smith revealed, starting with D&C 57, that Independence, Missouri (not Utah) is the center of the City of Zion on the American continent, and that the latter-day saints would eventually be gathered there and build a temple from which Jesus would rule in the Americas,
 
Mormons And The Trinity
By David E Lister and Jason Catizone

One of the most difficult mysteries and doctrines to explain within Christianity is the doctrine of the Trinity. But we do want to state that while difficult, it is not impossible to teach or defend.
The problem in the world today isn’t that people don’t believe in God. Most people BELIEVE in God. The problem is that most people have an incorrect idea of the true character and attributes of God. Without a true knowledge of these things men could not exercise complete faith in Him for life and salvation.

John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

For example if I believed God did not have all knowledge, I would be concerned God would one day discover some new doctrine and destroy God’s plan of salvation. I would hold back my complete faith in Him.

If I believed God did not have Mercy, Love, Judgement, Justice, Truth, Power I would not have sufficient confidence in God. I would hold back having faith in Him.

If I didn’t know God was my Father and I was His actual child, I would not understand my true potential. I would not believe God truely cared for me. Unfortunately, some in this life who have an abusive father, tend to see God in the same way their father treated them. They don’t understand how God could allow so much suffering in this world. Some think God is laughing at us or mocking us. Some think he is constantly angry at us. It is these false ideas of God that causes many to lose faith in Him.

I know Catholics believe in all these good attributes of God. Catholics are good people. However, the belief that God is a mass of energy that fills the universe causes me to doubt his intentions for me. I cannot love a mass of energy. When I know God is my actual Father and I am His seed, and that He wants me to be like Him, my love and faith grow for Him.
 
Eucharisted,
I personally believe God the Father is a resurrected Person who lived on an earth, but also believe that just as Christ was always perfect, He was also always perfect meaning perfectly sinless. So that is way different than what you have written here.

Man was really created in the image of God. Man really can “become perfect in Christ”, and inherit a joint throne in the heavens just as the apostle John taught so plainly. But that will I assume take thousands of years after this life to qualify, through learning much more than we learn in this life. It’s part of what “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor entered into the heart of man.”
Thanks for telling us your personal opinion. I told you what the Mormon Church currently teaches. I say “currently” because I’m sure in a few years it will change its beliefs, just as it always has. For example, the church used to say blacks can’t be priests, but now they can. This doctrinal change would make sense if it was a development of doctrine, that is, a deepening of the understanding of Public Revelation, one doctrine on top of the other, like a ladder reaching up to God and down to man all at once (for God gave the revelation and man’s understanding about is raised) - however, since Mormons see fit to change instead of develope their doctrines, it dose not make sense and sees to be a simple and cunning means to cover up past errors and faults and to be more in tune with the truth.
 
Why the apostrophe in the word “gods” in the title of this thread? Is it somehow possessive? Drives me nuts! I guess it’s the teacher in me, sorry…
 
The problem in the world today isn’t that people don’t believe in God.
Oh, but that’s not the problem at all, Chris.

Over a Billion people believe in the True Church - the Catholic Church, which God founded.

The problem is with groups like mormons and jeehovahs and others who are lost down dirt roads; those who believe in false prophets - the same bogus false prophets that God warned us about.

Please let us know if any mormons have the faith and the courage to actually converse here. I won’t hold my breath.

Meanwhile, I’ve shown you the “problem”.

The cult of “mormonism” is a minor problem, because the population is so dramatically small in the world, but it is a worry that even ONE mormon believes in Joe Smith or any of that hogwash.

Very sad.
 
Well, looks like I was banned, so here’s what I think before I get banned again :o 😃

These are the ones that I know are fully true or semi-true:

-“God (the Father) was once a man like us”. As ParkerD already explained, this does not necessarily mean that the Father was not divine when He was a man, just like how Jesus did not stop being divine when He incarnated. However, yes, it is taught that the Father is an exalted man, and that He could have lived on another earth prior to being our God.
Nope. The Mormon god was not divine when he was living on an earth-like planet as a mortal man. The current Gospel Principles manual (used to teach Mormons what they are expected to believe) says:
This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46).
Our Heavenly Father knows our trials, our weaknesses, and our sins. He has compassion and mercy on us. He wants us to succeed even as he did.
If the Mormon god “succeeded” in acheiving godhood, was a man “like us” and wants us “to succeed even as he did”, then:
  1. He was not always a god, and
  2. There was a chance that he could have failed to achieve godhood, “like us”.
The Mormon god is just some guy, but more advanced than you are.
 
Why the apostrophe in the word “gods” in the title of this thread? Is it somehow possessive? Drives me nuts! I guess it’s the teacher in me, sorry…
Yeppers!

Keep your eye out for Mittster Romney - he somehow thinks he might have a shot at the nomination for Republican President.

😃

We live in a Christian Nation; predominantly comprised of Christians. Romney is a mormon. He will NEVER even come close to a Republican nomination because of that.

But mormons are too shallow to even respond.

I want to tape Willard Romney giving a REAL speech on mormonism. The FULL ON TRUTH.

Finally, his political career will screech to a halt. It will be a beautiful day.
 
The belief is that there are Three separate, distinct Persons (all eternally existing) that together make one God. Similar to Mormons, when we say “God”, we can either be referring to the Father, or the Trinity (or in the LDS case, the Godhead) as a whole.
ThuriferAcolyte,
Then I believe what you believe about Three Persons as God, and we just happen to use different terminology. I think God is more perfect than to be concerned about terminology.
 
ThuriferAcolyte,
Then I believe what you believe about Three Persons as God, and we just happen to use different terminology. I think God is more perfect than to be concerned about terminology.
Yes, I think that in general terms, the beliefs are more similar than people on both sides think they are, especially with misunderstandings of both. However there are real differences between the two as I’m sure you know, especially in regards to who each Person is, their origins, etc. But, we fully believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate Persons, together one God.
 
Nope. The Mormon god was not divine when he was living on an earth-like planet as a mortal man. The current Gospel Principles manual (used to teach Mormons what they are expected to believe) says:

If the Mormon god “succeeded” in acheiving godhood, was a man “like us” and wants us “to succeed even as he did”, then:
  1. He was not always a god, and
  2. There was a chance that he could have failed to achieve godhood, “like us”.
The Mormon god is just some guy, but more advanced than you are.
Paul,
Then (if you will accept this question respectfully just to understand your complete perspective on this issue) are you saying that Christ didn’t “succeed” when He lived on earth, although He was perfect at every moment?
 
The false hopwash began by whoever is still going around.

I do not become a God as this false lie continues to say. My goal is become like God, or in other words live my life here on earth recognizing that I will never be perfect – I can hope for such, perfection, after I am gone.

Nothing in that said anything about becoming God. Whoever that began that lie does not know my church’s doctrine.
Perhaps you don’t know your church’s doctrine.

From Gospel Principles, Chapter 47:
Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:
They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
They will become gods.
They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
They will receive a fulness of joy.
They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have–all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).
The Gospel Principles manual, used to teach Mormons what they are expected to believe, says that if you are a faithful Mormon, you will become a god.

What relationship do you have with your heavenly father? You worship him, right? The Gospel Principles manual says that your spirit children will have that same relationship to you (i.e.: they will worship you).

Sounds to me like you are working to become God.

That’s certainly what was taught when I was LDS. I taught Gospel Essentials for 2 years and Gospel Doctrine for 4 years, and that’s what we taught.
 
Perhaps you don’t know your church’s doctrine.

From Gospel Principles, Chapter 47:

The Gospel Principles manual, used to teach Mormons what they are expected to believe, says that if you are a faithful Mormon, you will become a god.

What relationship do you have with your heavenly father? You worship him, right? The Gospel Principles manual says that your spirit children will have that same relationship to you (i.e.: they will worship you).

Sounds to me like you are working to become God.

That’s certainly what was taught when I was LDS. I taught Gospel Essentials for 2 years and Gospel Doctrine for 4 years, and that’s what we taught.
Paul,
By the way, the manual has been updated in 2009 and that sentence was removed. It was an ambiguous statement, and its removal was an improvement. (Remember that several months ago we discussed that sentence.)
 
ThuriferAcolyte,
Then I believe what you believe about Three Persons as God, and we just happen to use different terminology. I think God is more perfect than to be concerned about terminology.
It matters only to mormons; not to anyone else what mormons think.

mormons are not Christian. Best to call themselves “Smithians”.

It would be great if a mormon could somehow have the backbone or the credibility to support their own cult. Ain’t happenin.

Best to go to: www.ex-mormon.org. to find the truth of the brave.
 
Paul,
Then (if you will accept this question respectfully just to understand your complete perspective on this issue) are you saying that Christ didn’t “succeed” when He lived on earth, although He was perfect at every moment?
Jesus did not need to “succeed” in becoming God, because he was always God. He cannot be anything else. Your question astounds me.
 
So are they all freemasons?
No, but many aspects of the Mormon temple endowment were borrowed from Freemasonry. The hand clasps, keywords, blood oaths, apron and many other parts of the endowment were lifted directly from the freemason rituals.

It is no coincidence that it was only a few months after Joseph Smith was inducted into the Masonic Lodge that he “revealed” the temple endowment, complete with masonic handshakes, passwords, blood oaths, etc.

Joseph Smith was a master plagiarist.
 
Paul,
By the way, the manual has been updated in 2009 and that sentence was removed. It was an ambiguous statement, and its removal was an improvement. (Remember that several months ago we discussed that sentence.)
Nope, I just checked Gospel Principles on LDS.org and it has not changed. It reads exactly the same.
 
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