Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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estesbob said:
I wonder if this applies to an unmarried couple? They are already committing a sin by having sex outside of marriage but is their sin compounded if they use a condom? I’ve never been able to get a clear answer as to whether Humanae Vitae applies to unmarried couples.
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An intrinsic evil remains, by definition, an intrinsic evil no matter who, when or under what conditions, the act is performed.

Two wrongs do not make a right, or even lessen either wrong done.
 
TMC said:
It is a method to have sex without conception. So, how is it not contraception? The NFP website all tout NFP as being as effective as the pill. To say NFP is not contraception is a strained semantic argument that relies on simply redefining contraception to exclude NFP.
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I see it this way too and I’ve read Theology of the Body. It confuses me even more when I read it. NFP is used as a form of birth control by couples who wish to avoid.

They are controlling birth (i.e., “birth control”).
 
estesbob said:
I wonder if this applies to an unmarried couple? They are already committing a sin by having sex outside of marriage but is their sin compounded if they use a condom? I’ve never been able to get a clear answer as to whether Humanae Vitae applies to unmarried couples.
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I think this is a complex and touchy subject and the Church does not want to say anything about it for fear of being misunderstood. Remember the big furor over the Pope’s comments on condoms and HIV? Imagine if he had said something similar about unmarried couples.
 
Serap said:
Those two analogies make no sense to me!!!

Both married couples are not doing anything wrong.
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Serap, the use of contraception is a grave moral evil. So yes, one of those couples is doing something wrong.

It is not wrong to desire, for just reasons, to space one’s pregnancies.

It is wrong to use contraception to do so. Contraception is just as much of a sin as stealing.

Evil means cannot be used to achieve a good end.

NFP is not contraception, so a couple using NFP to space pregnancies is using moral means to achieve a good end.
 
Serap said:
I see it this way too and I’ve read Theology of the Body. It confuses me even more when I read it. NFP is used as a form of birth control by couples who wish to avoid.

They are controlling birth (i.e., “birth control”).
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Once again, it is not evil to desire to space one’s pregnancies for just reasons.

It is a sin to DELIBERATELY FRUSTRATE conception at any time during a woman’s cycle, either in anticipation of or during the marital act. The condom, the Pill, the IUD, the diaphragm, withdrawl, etc. all frustrate conception.

NFP does not frustrate conception as the couple are not doing anything to that end. They are enjoying the embrace of the marital act. They do not to anything to the husband’s sperm or the woman’s body to prevent conception from taking place. A woman does not perform an action to cause her cycle to become infertile – her body does that automatically because it is acting just as God designed it to act!

Serap, I keep asking this question and you keep avoiding it: how does NFP prevent ejaculated sperm from reaching an egg? How does a couple “say no to God” while utilizing His design?

*Please *answer this.
 
As a teenager of the early 21st century, I can safely say that the Protestant justifications for ABC and condemnations of NFP stem NOT from an honestly novel reading of the Bible, but the sex-crazed culture that is manifest today.

At the end of the day, the ABC-justifying crowd buys into the idea that we must have sex EVERY HOUR OF EVERYDAY (whenever we celebrate the Mass :cool:)–sorry, I just had to include that reference. 😃

Honestly, I think a good analogy for ABC justifiers is someone who undergoes gastric bypass surgery for non-health reasons.

For the ABC crowd, the gluttinous act involves sex.

For the GB surgery crowd, the problem is food.

Now, it is possible to work with the body and eat healthier food and at normal times (no candy bars right before bed :() to lose weight. The surgery, however, will allow you to lose weight UNNATURALLY, and will allow you eat as much as before.

Please let me know your thoughts. I’m not married or anything, so maybe I fail to recognize the difficulties that come with this issue.
 
Serap said:
This is my disconnect:

A couple uses NFP for 10 years to avoid a child. They purposefully avoid sex during her fertile time every cycle and say no to creating a baby - they are happy with 2 kids.

A couple uses condoms for 10 years to avoid a child. They are also happy with 2 kids.

The outcome is the same.
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The difference is that with NFP you are not using an artificial barrier to prevent conception. The Church has spoken on this and however one chooses to twist it, it is not the same. Contraception is a sin, NFP is not.
 
Serap said:
This is my disconnect:

A couple uses NFP for 10 years to avoid a child. They purposefully avoid sex during her fertile time every cycle and say no to creating a baby - they are happy with 2 kids.

A couple uses condoms for 10 years to avoid a child. They are also happy with 2 kids.

The outcome is the same.
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In one case, the couple has profained sexuality (i.e. take that which is holy, make it common) by specifically steralizing it so that they can enjoy it however often, and whenever they want in order to fulfil their own personal concupiscent desire.

In the other, a couple fasts from sexuality for the purpose of not having children. However they are not profaining sexuality in order to get as much as they want, whenever they want. Rather, they are fasting from sexuality which is in fact a personal sacrafice all the more in todays post sexual revolution society.

There’s a big difference in approch here.
 
wanner47 said:
Serap, I keep asking this question and you keep avoiding it: how does NFP prevent ejaculated sperm from reaching an egg? How does a couple “say no to God” while utilizing His design?

*Please *answer this.
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NFP prevents sperm from reaching an egg the same way the pill does, but taking steps to ensure there will be no egg there when the sperm enters the fallopian tube.

As to how using NFP is saying no to God, its not. All birth control methods use God’s design.
 
@Serap:

Don’t look at the intent to have children or not have children. It’s another issue, but it’s not where the distinction between NFP and ABC lies.

NFP works with the way God designed sex. ABC is designed to work against the way God designed sex. That’s the distinction.
 
TMC said:
NFP prevents sperm from reaching an egg the same way the pill does, but taking steps to ensure there will be no egg there when the sperm enters the fallopian tube.
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Okay, so tell me… what action does a couple perform to change the woman’s cycle from fertile to infertile? What does the couple do to make her cycle infertile?
As to how using NFP is saying no to God, its not. All birth control methods use God’s design.
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No, contraception works AGAINST God’s design. They take your natural fertility and make it unnatural. The Pill fools a woman’s body into believing that it’s pregnant. The condom places an unnatural barrier (latex) between the penis and vagina. Etc.
 
wanner47 said:
Once again, it is not evil to desire to space one’s pregnancies for just reasons.

It is a sin to DELIBERATELY FRUSTRATE conception at any time during a woman’s cycle, either in anticipation of or during the marital act. The condom, the Pill, the IUD, the diaphragm, withdrawl, etc. all frustrate conception.

NFP does not frustrate conception as the couple are not doing anything to that end. They are enjoying the embrace of the marital act. They do not to anything to the husband’s sperm or the woman’s body to prevent conception from taking place. A woman does not perform an action to cause her cycle to become infertile – her body does that automatically because it is acting just as God designed it to act!

Serap, I keep asking this question and you keep avoiding it: how does NFP prevent ejaculated sperm from reaching an egg? How does a couple “say no to God” while utilizing His design?

*Please *answer this.
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I think I am beginning to get it! I have learned a lot in this thread.
 
TMC said:
It is a method to have sex without conception. So, how is it not contraception? The NFP website all tout NFP as being as effective as the pill. To say NFP is not contraception is a strained semantic argument that relies on simply redefining contraception to exclude NFP.
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Actually it is a method to not have sex to avoid conception.

I can only conceive on a fertile day, and no teaching that I am aware of says that I must only have relations on a fertile day.

I can have relations on any day. Relations on a infertile day are infertile, no matter what the intention is.
 
wanner47 said:
Okay, so tell me… what action does a couple perform to change the woman’s cycle from fertile to infertile? What does the couple do to make her cycle infertile?

No, contraception works AGAINST God’s design. They take your natural fertility and make it unnatural. The Pill fools a woman’s body into believing that it’s pregnant. The condom places an unnatural barrier (latex) between the penis and vagina. Etc.
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I want to add that ABC allows a woman to be available to her husband when she would naturally conceive, but attempts to thwart conception. It tells the husband,
I allow you access to my body, at the time I could conceive…but I do not trust that you will be able to provide and nurture and care for the baby that could come forth from this union."

I don’t know if EWTN keeps all it’s homilies, but several years ago Angelus Shaughnessy gave a beautiful homily on ABC. He referred to it as “mutual masturbation.”
 
wanner47 said:
No, contraception works AGAINST God’s design. They take your natural fertility and make it unnatural. The Pill fools a woman’s body into believing that it’s pregnant. The condom places an unnatural barrier (latex) between the penis and vagina. Etc.
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It’s even simpler to explain. Marital relations occasionally result in pregnancy. Infertility is a disease that makes the body unable to attain the basic function of reproduction.

Contraceptives artificially induce disease, NFP does not.

There is a disturbing undercurrent to this thread. NFP is only warranted to space out children for serious reasons, not to stop having them altogether. Serious reasons does not mean having a two cars, central air, European vacations etc… People are writing about NFP as if it’s simply Catholic birth control so that they can have no more than two kids so they can afford two cars, nice vacations and a dog. That’s a misapplication of the teaching of the Church.
 
1holycatholic said:
It’s even simpler to explain. Marital relations occasionally result in pregnancy. Infertility is a disease that makes the body unable to attain the basic function of reproduction.

Contraceptives artificially induce disease, NFP does not.

There is a disturbing undercurrent to this thread. NFP is only warranted to space out children for serious reasons, not to stop having them altogether. Serious reasons does not mean having a two cars, central air, European vacations etc… People are writing about NFP as if it’s simply Catholic birth control so that they can have no more than two kids so they can afford two cars, nice vacations and a dog. That’s a misapplication of the teaching of the Church.
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You are right! Sometimes people try to make the case for birth control being the same as the Catholic teaching on NFP so they can use birth control without feeling guilt. They are trying to justify their actions:shrug: It’s amazing how we can twist things to “fit” our needs and wants and not focus on why the Church, in all her wisdom and love, gives us these teachings!
 
If 98% of Catholic women reject church teaching on contraception, here is the devil’s score card on other issues:

75% do not go to Sunday Mass

30% do not believe in the Real Presence

65% believe in divorce and re-marriage

See the correlation? Reject one teaching, the others are sure to follow! That is the nature of heresy.
 
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