Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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I’m not judging anyone. :rolleyes:
Yes you are, when you state positivly your belief that “these people” ie here on this thread are corrupt et. al. you’ve made a positive judgment about their disposition. Perhaps you’ve lived a life of perfect sexual morality, if so then I imagine the next time Jesus asks the one who is sin free to cast the first stone you can be the person doing so.

For my part, I know I am a failure in this regard. I have fallen to temptation in the past, and the temptation remains despite what I know. There for I can not make such a positive judgment about another… No matter how obstinant they appear in their position. Because I know how obstinant I have been, in my own erroneous positoin.
 
Yes you are, when you state positivly your belief that “these people” ie here on this thread are corrupt et. al. you’ve made a positive judgment about their disposition. Perhaps you’ve lived a life of perfect sexual morality, if so then I imagine the next time Jesus asks the one who is sin free to cast the first stone you can be the person doing so.

For my part, I know I am a failure in this regard. I have fallen to temptation in the past, and the temptation remains despite what I know. There for I can not make such a positive judgment about another… No matter how obstinant they appear in their position. Because I know how obstinant I have been, in my own erroneous positoin.
I said some people are corrupt, self-righteous and abusive. I didn’t say anyone in the thread was all of those things. There are people in this thread that publicly demonstrate some of these behaviors. Your sanctimonious and uncharitable response towards me is uncalled for.
 
I said some people are corrupt, self-righteous and abusive. I didn’t say anyone in the thread was all of those things. There are people in this thread that publicly demonstrate some of these behaviors. Your sanctimonious and uncharitable response towards me is uncalled for.
Oh, I knew you were going here… "well technically I never said’… here’s the problem, you are the one that brought it up in the context of this discussion, for the purposes of defending your style of posting.

There is a time for hard truths, but that doesn’t mean we should not always remember what we are and present them with the greatest charity.
 
Oh, I knew you were going here… "well technically I never said’… here’s the problem, you are the one that brought it up in the context of this discussion, for the purposes of defending your style of posting.

There is a time for hard truths, but that doesn’t mean we should not always remember what we are and present them with the greatest charity.
If you knew I didn’t say it, then why did you say that I did? Are you attempting to malign my reputation?
 
Nope, I most certainly am not… Frankly nor would I even be capable of doing such a spurrious thing.
Then why would you admit to deliberately making a false statement about what I wrote by admitting that you knew you’d be called on the carpet for it?
 
Then why would you admit to deliberately making a false statement about what I wrote by admitting that you knew you’d be called on the carpet for it?
Ok, you’ve left all semblence of reality and you are now in a dream world… Discussion over.
 
I don’t think that shop lifting can really be compared to ABC. Shoplifting hurts someone (business owner) financially.

ABC is two married persons wishing to avoid having another child which is not unlike two married persons using NFP to avoid having another child. These two married persons are not hurting another person.

I am not using ABC per se; I am just stating what many many people feel and don’t share on CAF due to the strong opposition.
Serap, I usually read your posts at Family Life and I always enjoy your insights and sense of humor.

So, now, rather tongue-in-cheek, here’s a single guy’s take:

If the married people can use ABC in order to enjoy recreational sex, I want my rights, too. 😉 I think I will start with the first scantily dressed lady I meet in church. Instead of thinking about Brother (St.) Andre Bessette’s virtues and merits 😃 while I desperately stare at the ceiling, I will ask this lady to join me for a fun night of recreational sex. I mean, hey, we are not going to hurt anybody else like a shoplifter would. I think if the Church can make a mistake on ABC, it can also make a mistake on casual sex, recreational sex between unmarried people, and there’s no use to being so stiff and following every instruction to the letter.

Some recreational sex cannot hurt, as long as it happens between two consenting adults, be it an unmarried man with a woman, a man with another man, a woman with a woman, or perhaps any x number of men with any y number of women, as in threesomes, gruppensex, and so on. Hey, if it’s done between consenting people, in the privacy of their homes, why could it be wrong? And why would it be any different from recreational sex between married couples? I mean, it’s just recreation, blowing off some steam, similar to going to play a game of tennis with your friends. And I wouldn’t discount the fun to be had with animals, either. Hey, maybe some of us just love animals a little bit more, and a little bit differently - so why judge them?

I will also re-evaluate my stance about strip-tease clubs, but first of all, I will subscribe to some pornographic magazines. I’m going to enjoy these magazines I paid for, it’s not like the case of the shoplifter who steals from other people. And with the adult entertainment facilities, again, I think, the Vatican is being unreasonable. I’m not going to hurt anybody by having a little fun, and visiting these places. In fact, I think I’m going to keep visiting them even after I get married. As long as I’m not going to have sex with the dancers, and get infected with some STD, my wife should have little to complain about. Guys sometimes go out on a Friday night to have a beer or two and relax by watching sports in a bar, this is pretty much similar to that. It’s just a way to relax after a long week of work.

Oh, and I forgot to mention masturbation. What in the world is wrong with that? Masturbation is not like shoplifting - it’s not going to hurt anyone, and it’s just an innocent recreational activity when a sex partner is not available. It’s similar to the recreational sex between married couples who use ABC to avoid pregnancy. However, masturbation is to be heartily recommended to everyone - married people and singles alike.

[/JUST KIDDING]

OK, Serap, this was all just kidding. But I think it gives a legitimate insight into a guy’s thought processes. If the Vatican can err on the ABC issue, if the Vatican unnecessarily tries to make the life of married people harder than it should be, my male logic tells me that all these other forms of sex as a recreational activity should be OK, too.
 
Serap, I usually read your posts at Family Life and I always enjoy your insights and sense of humor.

So, now, rather tongue-in-cheek, here’s a single guy’s take:

If the married people can use ABC in order to enjoy recreational sex, I want my rights, too. 😉 I think I will start with the first scantily dressed lady I meet in church. Instead of thinking about Brother (St.) Andre Bessette’s virtues and merits 😃 while I desperately stare at the ceiling, I will ask this lady to join me for a fun night of recreational sex. I mean, hey, we are not going to hurt anybody else like a shoplifter would. I think if the Church can make a mistake on ABC, it can also make a mistake on casual sex, recreational sex between unmarried people, and there’s no use to being so stiff and following every instruction to the letter.

Some recreational sex cannot hurt, as long as it happens between two consenting adults, be it an unmarried man with a woman, a man with another man, a woman with a woman, or perhaps any x number of men with any y number of women, as in threesomes, gruppensex, and so on. Hey, if it’s done between consenting people, in the privacy of their homes, why could it be wrong? And why would it be any different from recreational sex between married couples? I mean, it’s just recreation, blowing off some steam, similar to going to play a game of tennis with your friends. And I wouldn’t discount the fun to be had with animals, either. Hey, maybe some of us just love animals a little bit more, and a little bit differently - so why judge them?

I will also re-evaluate my stance about strip-tease clubs, but first of all, I will subscribe to some pornographic magazines. I’m going to enjoy these magazines I paid for, it’s not like the case of the shoplifter who steals from other people. And with the adult entertainment facilities, again, I think, the Vatican is being unreasonable. I’m not going to hurt anybody by having a little fun, and visiting these places. In fact, I think I’m going to keep visiting them even after I get married. As long as I’m not going to have sex with the dancers, and get infected with some STD, my wife should have little to complain about. Guys sometimes go out on a Friday night to have a beer or two and relax by watching sports in a bar, this is pretty much similar to that. It’s just a way to relax after a long week of work.

Oh, and I forgot to mention masturbation. What in the world is wrong with that? Masturbation is not like shoplifting - it’s not going to hurt anyone, and it’s just an innocent recreational activity when a sex partner is not available. It’s similar to the recreational sex between married couples who use ABC to avoid pregnancy. However, masturbation is to be heartily recommended to everyone - married people and singles alike.

[/JUST KIDDING]

OK, Serap, this was all just kidding. But I think it gives a legitimate insight into a guy’s thought processes. If the Vatican can err on the ABC issue, if the Vatican unnecessarily tries to make the life of married people harder than it should be, my male logic tells me that all these other forms of sex as a recreational activity should be OK, too.
ooooo boy…that’s a side of you I’ve NEVER observed before 😛

I am just having a really hard time with this ABC thing.

If you want my personal opinion, I am against the pill and IUD for many reasons. However, I’m struggling with barrier methods where a baby is never conceived. Married couples choose to avoid children using various methods including NFP 🤷
 
ooooo boy…that’s a side of you I’ve NEVER observed before 😛

I am just having a really hard time with this ABC thing.

If you want my personal opinion, I am against the pill and IUD for many reasons. However, I’m struggling with barrier methods where a baby is never conceived. Married couples choose to avoid children using various methods including NFP 🤷
I have the exact same problem. I’ll be honest that I do not understand the churches prohibition on barrier methods of birth control. But I accept it and pray that someday I will come to understand it.
 
ooooo boy…that’s a side of you I’ve NEVER observed before 😛

I am just having a really hard time with this ABC thing.

If you want my personal opinion, I am against the pill and IUD for many reasons. However, I’m struggling with barrier methods where a baby is never conceived. Married couples choose to avoid children using various methods including NFP 🤷
A condom violates the unitive aspect of the marital act. A man and his wife do not become “one flesh” with a condom because there is a thin barrier of latex separating them.
 
I have the exact same problem. I’ll be honest that I do not understand the churches prohibition on barrier methods of birth control. But I accept it and pray that someday I will come to understand it.
Thanks for sharing this with us. It was nice to learn of your troubles in coming to terms with the Church.

I am having a very hard time with it. I just can’t seem to get it.
 
A condom violates the unitive aspect of the marital act. A man and his wife do not become “one flesh” with a condom because there is a thin barrier of latex separating them.
I wonder if this applies to an unmarried couple? They are already committing a sin by having sex outside of marriage but is their sin compounded if they use a condom? I’ve never been able to get a clear answer as to whether Humanae Vitae applies to unmarried couples.
 
A condom violates the unitive aspect of the marital act. A man and his wife do not become “one flesh” with a condom because there is a thin barrier of latex separating them.
but in using NFP, they are also saying “NO” to God by having relations when the couple is not fertile.

it would be more unitive if they didn’t refrain during the woman’s ovulation.
 
Thanks for sharing this with us. It was nice to learn of your troubles in coming to terms with the Church.

I am having a very hard time with it. I just can’t seem to get it.
The key is that we have to accept it whether we get it or not.

"I made the resolution never to consider whether the things commanded me appeared useful or not… it is love alone that counts. Forget about whether something is needed or useful; see it (the demand, rule, obligation, etc.) as a whim of Jesus." St Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face
 
but in using NFP, they are also saying “NO” to God by having relations when the couple is not fertile.

it would be more unitive if they didn’t refrain during the woman’s ovulation.
I’m not sure how that it is saying, No to God.

You would be right if we only were permitted to be intimate on fertile days.

We can be intimate with our spouses when we want, if it happens to be on a fertile day, we must be willing to accept the gift of a Child.
 
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