Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church

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Serap said:
I don’t believe it either, but someone else’s perception is their reality.

edited to add: …and I have to respect another person’s reality even if I don’t agree. I win them over with kindness and then talk to them at a compassionate level to see why they believe what they believe.
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Perception is not reality.
 
Serap said:
Boy, I’m glad Jesus was different.

Abusing a child…:eek: I’m not going there! I was abused as a child and it’s not something to throw around.
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Grave sin is grave sin. Jesus did not turn a blind eye to sin.
 
Serap said:
It is the reality for that particular individual. It’s our job to seek what the vulnerabilities are that caused that perception in the first place. We do this through kindness.
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No, it is not reality for that particular individual. Perception is not reality.

Reality is an objective truth. Perception may be in conformity with reality or it may not.
 
1holycatholic said:
No, it is not reality for that particular individual. Perception is not reality.

Reality is an objective truth. Perception may be in conformity with reality or it may not.
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God bless you and I wish you well. Congratulations for crossing the Tiber!
 
Serap said:
It is the reality for that particular individual. It’s our job to seek what the vulnerabilities are that caused that perception in the first place. We do this through kindness.
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I agree. I find that those that really want to change minds and help others invariably approach these situations with kindness and empathy. Those that just want to vent their spleen and reaffirm their own sense of self-righteous tend to use venom and anger to do so.
 
TMC said:
I agree. I find that those that really want to change minds and help others invariably approach these situations with kindness and empathy. Those that just want to vent their spleen and reaffirm their own sense of self-righteous tend to use venom and anger to do so.
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And I find those who quickly level the charge at posters of being uncharitable and a Pharisee are generally those who are not comfortable with some of the teachings of the church and would just as soon the subjects never be broached. It is far easier to call someone self-righteous than to try to explain one’s dissidents from church teaching.
 
estesbob said:
And I find those who quickly level the charge at posters of being uncharitable and a Pharisee are generally those who are not comfortable with some of the teachings of the church and would just as soon the subjects never be broached. It is far easier to call someone self-righteous than to try to explain one’s dissidents from church teaching.
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Thank you!
 
estesbob said:
And I find those who quickly level the charge at posters of being uncharitable and a Pharisee are generally those who are not comfortable with some of the teachings of the church and would just as soon the subjects never be broached. It is far easier to call someone self-righteous than to try to explain one’s dissidents from church teaching.
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This has been my experience too.
 
THIS REPORT DOES NOT REFLECT THE DATA IN THE STUDY

The report is at:
guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf

Freqs from the survey itself are at:
cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nsfg/codebooks/NSFG_2006-08_FemaleF_Codebook.pdf

Let me give an example:
Study says “Among all women who have had sex, 99% have ever used a contraceptive method other than natural family planning.”

Survey results for # of Birth Control Methods used (drugdeve(4373-4373)):
INAPPLICABLE 4,680
No method ever 1,099
1 method 829
2 methods 469
3 or more methods 279

Total valid = 2,676. % never using birth control = 1099/2676= 41%. Inapplicable means that the woman has never had sex.

More lies from Guttmacher to support the murder industry.

From the article:
“In real-life America, contraceptive use and strong religious beliefs are highly compatible,” said the report’s lead author Rachel Jones.

Negative, Rachel. They’re in high tension. Same with pornography, same with every social problem condemned by the Church. We’re sinners seeking Christ and the world isn’t helping and neither are your faulty statistics.
 
wanner47 said:
Let’s get one thing straight, Rence. The Church’s teachings on contraception =/= the Church “telling people to have more kids.”

The Church does not tell anyone how many children to have. The Church teaches that all couples must prayerfully discern on a regular basis whether or not they are called to have more children. If the couple discerns that they have just reasons for avoiding pregnancy, then they are free to either abstain or use NFP to that end.
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You’re right about all of the above. Certainly God, and in turn, the Church, never dictated to us to have as many kids as we could, and certainly never put a number one how many we should have. You’re right about that. And we are called to use NFP, and to discern whether we are being called to have more children or not.
wanner47 said:
Here’s what I don’t get about the mindset that artificial contraception is not a sin. All Christian churches up until 1930 taught that contraception was a sin, right? So that means three scenarios are possible:

(a) God has always been fine with contraception but allowed all Christian churches to teach error for 1,960 years;

(b) God considered contraception sinful for 1,960 years and then changed His mind;
(c) God has always considered contraception sinful and still does.

It seems to me that both (a) and (b) introduce a whole host of other problems, so that the only possible scenario is (c).
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The fact is, many people think that enough information is available for the Church to take anoter look at conctraception, and teach favorably on it. And they just don’t want to risk pregnancy. It’s not about “playing God”. It’s about people really believing that their decisions are moral and correct for their family.
 
Rence said:
You’re right about all of the above. Certainly God, and in turn, the Church, never dictated to us to have as many kids as we could, and certainly never put a number one how many we should have. You’re right about that. And we are called to use NFP, and to discern whether we are being called to have more children or not.

The fact is, many people think that enough information is available for the Church to take anoter look at conctraception, and teach favorably on it. And they just don’t want to risk pregnancy. It’s not about “playing God”. It’s about people really believing that their decisions are moral and correct for their family.
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Seems preety risky to sin and hope the church changes their teachings.
 
Serap said:
I just read the following and it was an interesting read…

lisashea.com/lisabase/aboutme/birthcontrol.html

I don’t see that at all. I see loving couples who are enjoying their families using ABC. They are not hurting themselves or the other person.🤷
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It’s funny you should mention that. I’ve never met anyone who was using NFP. And I know some pretty loving and happy couples that are using ABCs… the notion that people are hurting themselves and each other by using ABCs as always an odd Church teacing to me. And I’m sure to many others as well…
 
Rence said:
The fact is, many people think that enough information is available for the Church to take anoter look at conctraception, and teach favorably on it. And they just don’t want to risk pregnancy. It’s not about “playing God”. It’s about people really believing that their decisions are moral and correct for their family.
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And history has shown us that people can justify all sorts of immoral actions – including abortion, for example – in the name of being “correct for their family.” That’s why we need a source of objective truth to tell us, “No, this action is wrong, even if it makes things easier and more convenient for your family.”

Rence, you quoted this portion but then completely ignored it. I’m interested to know which scenario you think most plausible:

Here’s what I don’t get about the mindset that artificial contraception is not a sin. All Christian churches up until 1930 taught that contraception was a sin, right? So that means three scenarios are possible:

(a) God has always been fine with contraception but allowed all Christian churches to teach error for 1,960 years;

(b) God considered contraception sinful for 1,960 years and then changed His mind;

(c) God has always considered contraception sinful and still does.

It seems to me that both (a) and (b) introduce a whole host of other problems, so that the only possible scenario is (c).
 
Rence said:
It’s funny you should mention that. I’ve never met anyone who was using NFP. And I know some pretty loving and happy couples that are using ABCs… the notion that people are hurting themselves and each other by using ABCs as always an odd Church teacing to me. And I’m sure to many others as well…
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Unless you know the intimate details of another’s marriage, you can’t know if people are truly “happy.”

If you would have asked me and my husband during our first two years of marriage, while I was on the Pill, I would have told you that we were happy. But now, in hindsight, I can see that the Pill made our sexual life inherently selfish, and I can tell you that we are *MUCH *happier since we started using NFP.
 
Rence said:
It’s funny you should mention that. I’ve never met anyone who was using NFP. And I know some pretty loving and happy couples that are using ABCs… the notion that people are hurting themselves and each other by using ABCs as always an odd Church teacing to me. And I’m sure to many others as well…
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I guess that if you dont couint imperling tyour immortal soul you can sin and be loving and happy.
 
wanner47 said:
Here’s what I don’t get about the mindset that artificial contraception is not a sin. All Christian churches up until 1930 taught that contraception was a sin, right? So that means three scenarios are possible:

(a) God has always been fine with contraception but allowed all Christian churches to teach error for 1,960 years;

(b) God considered contraception sinful for 1,960 years and then changed His mind;

(c) God has always considered contraception sinful and still does.

It seems to me that both (a) and (b) introduce a whole host of other problems, so that the only possible scenario is (c).
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I can imagine an early Christian using the same argument to justify certain forms of slavery
 
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