MSNBC’s Morning Joe rains hell on right-wing Christians for choosing Trump’s 'blasphemy' over Christ's teachings

[drcube]

It’s not important whether my views are on all fours with Church teaching. It’s much more important whether those of churchmen are. Sometimes that’s not the case.

No, I’m glad you can admit that the views you propagate her aren’t in line with Church teaching. Are you saying that Bishop McElroy’s views aren’t in line with Church teaching?

I have no idea whether anyone has ever left the Church due to Bp> McElroy. It is not encouraging, though, to see churchmen present political positions as if they are Church teaching, and especially when, in doing so, they actually contradict Church teaching, and when there is not really anything worshipful about their speech or writings.

Are you saying Bishop McElroy is contradicting Church teachings.

One small example is Bp. McElroy’s putting “white supremacy” on a par with abortion as an evil to be combatted. I don’t think I know a single white supremacist in a place where one would certainly expect to find them. I do know there’s a tiny clutch of them in the extreme southwest of this area; people to whom no one pays any attention other than law enforcement. They are a danger to nobody and don’t even remotely approach the numbers that existed when I was a kid.

I am pretty sure you know white racists, even if you don’t think you do. If fact, since you don’t think you do, I would say that Bishop McElroy’s words are very important for someone like you as you don’t seem to understand how prevalent racism is

But to put that on a par with deliberately killing a million children a year is just grotesque. And if it doesn’t warp a young person’s sense of moral equivalence, it certainly does tell him or her that high churchmen care more about political talking points than they do about human lives.

Well, it seem like you have issues with Bishop McElroy then.

 

[Ridgerunner]

No, I’m glad you can admit that the views you propagate her aren’t in line with Church teaching

I didn’t. That’s your wishful thinking.

Are you saying that Bishop McElroy’s views aren’t in line with Church teaching?

As expressed in the article, I don’t see how they could be. Suppressing a virtually nonexistent white supremacy “movement” is in no way “proportionate” to the killing of a million children per year.

Are you saying Bishop McElroy is contradicting Church teachings.

Asked and answered.

I am pretty sure you know white racists, even if you don’t think you do. If fact, since you don’t think you do, I would say that Bishop McElroy’s words are very important for someone like you as you don’t seem to understand how prevalent racism is

This is absurd. Might as well say I fail to see the martians on the street masquerading as human beings, whereas you, with your super vision, can see them. Truth is, I think better of my fellow humans than you seem to. Having said that, I’ll add that nobody is without a mild “racism” in the sense of having preconceived notions, however benign, about those of other races. But that’s not the kind of “racism” that harms others.

Well, it seem like you have issues with Bishop McElroy then.

As did Abp Chaput and the other bishops.

 

[drcube]

I didn’t. That’s your wishful thinking.

Well, you said

It’s not important whether my views are on all fours with Church teaching.

so are you (in your own mind) in line with Church teaching or is Bishop McElroy?

As expressed in the article, I don’t see how they could be. Suppressing a virtually nonexistent white supremacy “movement” is in no way “proportionate” to the killing of a million children per yea

Well, you just answered my question.

Asked and answered.

Sure has been.

This is absurd. Might as well say I fail to see the martians on the street masquerading as human beings, whereas you, with your super vision, can see them. Truth is, I think better of my fellow humans than you seem to. Having said that, I’ll add that nobody is without a mild “racism” in the sense of having preconceived notions, however benign, about those of other races. But that’s not the kind of “racism” that harms others.

Yes, clearly Bishop McElroy has a valid point if Catholics just pretend racism doesn’t exist.

As did Abp Chaput and the other bishops.

That’s really between the bishops. I don’t really think it is the place on laity to challenge the bishops on Catholic Answers Forum. There are plenty of places that claim to be Catholic where you can bash a bishop or the Pope. It shouldn’t be here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s really between the bishops. I don’t really think it is the place on laity to challenge the bishops on Catholic Answers Forum.

I’m not the one who brought McElroy up. You did. When a bishop is cited for a political opinion, I see nothing wrong with responding to it. After all, so did Abp Chaput and, seemingly, the rest of the bishops. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

 

[drcube]

I’m not the one who brought McElroy up. You did. When a bishop is cited for a political opinion, I see nothing wrong with responding to it. After all, so did Abp Chaput and, seemingly, the rest of the bishops. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

I guess if you agree with a bishop on politics, it’s Church teaching. If you disagree, they are just expressing their political opinions.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I guess if you agree with a bishop on politics, it’s Church teaching. If you disagree, they are just expressing their political opinions.

Take it up with Abp Chaput and the other bishops who wouldn’t agree with Bp. McElroy.

 

[drcube]

Take it up with Abp Chaput and the other bishops who wouldn’t agree with Bp. McElroy.

Actually, you said that he was expressing a political opinion above. Don’t pass the buck.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

As expressed in the article, I don’t see how they could be. Suppressing a virtually nonexistent white supremacy “movement” is in no way “proportionate” to the killing of a million children per year.

That is your personal opinion that white supremacy is virtually nonexistent. Others, just as faithful to the Church, have the opposite opinion.

As for proportionate, it is the reason that is supposed to be proportionate, not the issue. A person who accepts that abortion is the most serious affront to human dignity and nevertheless disagree on what methods should be used to suppress it. That decision is a prudential judgement.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, you said that he was expressing a political opinion above. Don’t pass the buck.

In my opinion, that’s what it was. But since other bishops don’t agree with him, I invite you to see what they said if you believe he really was enunciating Church teaching.

That is your personal opinion that white supremacy is virtually nonexistent. Others, just as faithful to the Church, have the opposite opinion.

Give us the numbers so we can compare. It would be relevant also to give us the number of killings done in the name of white supremacy in, say, 2019 or 2018.

As for proportionate, it is the reason that is supposed to be proportionate, not the issue . A person who accepts that abortion is the most serious affront to human dignity and nevertheless disagree on what methods should be used to suppress it.

Of course, Democrats do not intend to suppress it. Yes, they have this bogus “hearts and minds” argument, which they never implement in any way. But all who participate in killing always have their rationalizations.

But obvious is obvious. Support politicians who support abortion and you’re complicit in the killing.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Give us the numbers so we can compare. It would be relevant also to give us the number of killings done in the name of white supremacy in, say, 2019 or 2018.

I’m sorry, but I can’t find that supporting data among the approved sources of Brietbart and The Daily Caller. Citing sources you don’t trust would be a waste of time.

As for proportionate, it is the reason that is supposed to be proportionate, not the issue . A person who accepts that abortion is the most serious affront to human dignity and nevertheless disagree on what methods should be used to suppress it.

Of course, Democrats do not intend to suppress it. Yes, they have this bogus “hearts and minds” argument, which they never implement in any way.

I was not referring to politicians. I was referring to what pro-life people in general ought to concentrate on. I see very little of that here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m sorry, but I can’t find that supporting data among the approved sources of Brietbart and The Daily Caller. Citing sources you don’t trust would be a waste of time.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) LeafByNiggle:

I was referring to what pro-life people in general ought to concentrate on. I see very little of that here.

Quite possibly because most prolife people recognize that the “hearts and minds” argument is an invitation to acedia.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Quite possibly because most prolife people recognize that the “hearts and minds” argument is an invitation to acedia.

Again, your opinion. Other’s may have a different opinion.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Again, your opinion. Other’s may have a different opinion.

Interesting that all prolife actions have been passed by Republicans. After all these years for the Dems to get even more pro-abortion if anything, pretty well tells you that “hearts and minds” is just a democrat excuse to do nothing except keep supporting abortion.

 

[drcube]

In my opinion, that’s what it was. But since other bishops don’t agree with him, I invite you to see what they said if you believe he really was enunciating Church teaching.

Can you provide examples of other bishops saying that Bishop McElroy is wrong and specifically refuting his comments in the article?

Of course, Democrats do not intend to suppress it. Yes, they have this bogus “hearts and minds” argument, which they never implement in any way. But all who participate in killing always have their rationalizations.

But obvious is obvious. Support politicians who support abortion and you’re complicit in the killing.

For Pete’s sake, you don’t even acknowledge that sexual activity outside of marital bonds is related to abortion in the US and you want to make those blanket condemnations. The poor theology going on here has to stop. The USCCB’s document on voting makes none of the claims you do about those voting for pro-choice candidates being complicit. . . .

 

[Ridgerunner]

Can you provide examples of other bishops saying that Bishop McElroy is wrong and specifically refuting his comments in the article?

It’s not detailed, but the article says Chaput disagreed and other bishops would not incorporate McElroy’s analysis.

For Pete’s sake, you don’t even acknowledge that sexual activity outside of marital bonds is related to abortion in the US and you want to make those blanket condemnations

Sexual activity in or out of marriage can result in abortion. You cited a source saying it’s more prevalent outside of marriage in the U.S. I cited one saying in the world at large it’s more prevalent inside marriage. No cause/effect relationship has been established other than that sex can sometimes result in abortion.

Never does any USCCB publication say “climate change” or “white supremacy” or any other Democrat cause du jour in this country is proportionate to killing innocent children.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, the USCCB publication "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship does talk about racism. And it DOES NOT claim that those who vote for pro-choice politicians are complicit in abortions, which is a point I made that I see you ducked. Which you do whenever you get caught that your personal theology doesn’t match Church theology.

But NEVER does it say racism or anything else in today’s political spectrum (or bogus one) is proportionate to killing millions of children. They do not support your relativistic position.

As you know, Pope Benedict said that one could support a pro-abortion politician ONLY for a proportionate reason; that is, an equally grave one. Nothing in today’s U.S. politics even remotely comes close to the murder of a million children per year.

I am aware that it is pretty close to being mandatory now for Democrats to support abortion. For one who purports to remain Catholic, it’s a problem. Justifying the unjustifiable is always difficult.
Being personally insulting is apparently one of those ways, but it doesn’t change the fact that supporting abortion politicians is supporting abortion.

That’s why I left the Dem party. Some people just see it sooner than others, or acknowledge it to themselves.

 

[vz71]

Looks like we’re down to bishop shopping.

You asked the question.
I guess you don’t like the answer.

 

[Leo2014]

I guess let me ask plain and simple; do you agree with Trump’s message that he gave at the Prayer Breakfast?

At least for the moment, if we can stay focus on the topic and not worry about who else is doing something bad or what “left wing” conspiracy is doing us harm. The point is that he took the opportunity at a Prayer Breakfast to echo a vitriol of attacks on others while denouncing the words of My Lord and Savior.

I have attended many Prayer Breakfast gatherings. This is definitely one that I would have walked out.

With the Lenten season soon arriving, the words we use should be at the top of our list of concerns.

Amen Mr. Scarborough!

 

[Ridgerunner]

which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

So, what are the proportionate reasons that justify killing a million innocent children per year?

 

[StudentMI]

Ridgerunner is talking sense.

As for talking about war crimes remember that most US wars have been started by Democrats. To slam Trump for not recognizing a war crime or whatever and propose voting for the ones who overwhelmingly have started wars is ridiculous. This article back from 2004 is still pertinent.

The Coming Elections and the Future of American Global Power

The US Must be Isolated and Constrained

www.counterpunch.org