MSU professor William Penn pulled from classroom after attack on Republicans

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Did you just…compliment yourself and promote your own post? Also, note how the study doesn’t list the universities, just that they’re “comprehensive?”

The other study said its list was comprehensive too; a comprehensive list of the Ivy League, Stanford, Smith, and Wellesley :rolleyes:.
Yea I did.
Seeing how it was asked for, and then ignored in favor of the trivial, get off the dance floor Billy, cause II am dancing with myself.
 
The other study said its list was comprehensive too; a comprehensive list of the Ivy League, Stanford, Smith, and Wellesley :rolleyes:.
Yes- which you “countered” by mentioning the “conservative” universities such as Liberty and Ave Maria college. You also forgot UC Berkeley, UC Santa Barbara, UW, Emory, etc. In short, most of them.

Ishii
 
Kendra and Brendan, you’re not thinking about the reality of what happens on college campuses. Its true that 18 year olds should be able to think on their own. However, anyone who knows young people knows that they often tend to follow the herd (or the trends). In 2008 it wasn’t “hip” to not be for the hope and change. Many of these “college kids” arrive at college without much foundation or understanding of the issues, etc. so they are basically empty vessels to be filled by the brilliance of those overwhelmingly liberal/left professors. And naturally so many of them are swayed. I have relatives who went to college as Catholics - and had only superficial understanding of politics - and came back raging liberals. Dennis Prager described the left-wing opposition he and David Horowitz encountered at UC Santa Barbara and Emory University when they went to speak at those universities:

.
I AM a young person. I’m only 24. I was on a college campus in 2008. Were there people happy that Obama won? Well, duh. There were also people who weren’t happy about it. I remember the day after the election a guy showed up to my history class late. The professor locks the door when class starts and this guy was banging on the door. She opened it and said that class had already started and he was interrupting. The guy said," well my president is black. I don’t need this class." The professor informed him that Obama was everyone’s president and that didn’t mean that her attendance policies had changed.

Do people change their minds? Yes. I know people who went from Democrat to Republican and I know people who went from Republican to Democrat. That doesn’t mean that the professors are twisting people’s arms. It usually has to do with who you are hanging out with, not some teacher you see a few hours a week.
My husband thought he was a liberal until he started having his political science classes. I was a registered Republican my senior year in high school and that hasn’t changed. That doesn’t mean that I think that liberal professors are out to brainwash their students. That’s just ridiculous.
 
Yes- which you “countered” by mentioning the “conservative” universities such as Liberty and Ave Maria college. You also forgot UC Berkeley, UC Santa Barbara, UW, Emory, etc. In short, most of them.

Ishii
The study I presented had a good sampling of institutes of higher learning.

Any criticism presented here shows more the effects of indoctrination than actual critical thinking.

There is no need to get into the study though, when the moral failings of the one who posted it are there for all the world to see.
Dismiss the poster, and abracadabra the study disappears into the vapor of internet overload, never to be seen again.

Methinks that the ones that spent their years stoned are more grounded in reality than those who have been indoctrinated.
 
Yes- which you “countered” by mentioning the “conservative” universities such as Liberty and Ave Maria college. You also forgot UC Berkeley, UC Santa Barbara, UW, Emory, etc. In short, most of them.

Ishii
I already named 6 of the most conservative. I can retrieve those for you if you would like.

“Liberty University, Ave Maria, Augustine Institute, the JPII Institute, Catholic U, and the University of Dallas”

You want to go bigger schools that are slightly less conservative but still very conservatively-biased? Fine by me!

Nebraska, Alabama, every UT school that isn’t the main campus in Austin [of which there are a ton], Auburn, Georgia, USC (South Carolina), Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Louisville, Kentucky, South Dakota, North Dakota, Brigham Young, Baylor, Rice, Missouri, Arkansas, Indiana, Mississippi State, Clemson, Texas A&M, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas State, University of North Texas, TCU, Texas Tech, West Virginia, Vanderbilt. That’s 32 not even counting the UT flagships!

Heck, you could just grab the Big 12 outside of UT, add in the SEC, and you’d be pretty golden!
I’m just going to assume you didn’t read the thread before making that comment.
I AM a young person. I’m only 24. I was on a college campus in 2008. Were there people happy that Obama won? Well, duh. There were also people who weren’t happy about it. I remember the day after the election a guy showed up to my history class late. The professor locks the door when class starts and this guy was banging on the door. She opened it and said that class had already started and he was interrupting. The guy said," well my president is black. I don’t need this class." The professor informed him that Obama was everyone’s president and that didn’t mean that her attendance policies had changed.

Do people change their minds? Yes. I know people who went from Democrat to Republican and I know people who went from Republican to Democrat. That doesn’t mean that the professors are twisting people’s arms. It usually has to do with who you are hanging out with, not some teacher you see a few hours a week.
My husband thought he was a liberal until he started having his political science classes. I was a registered Republican my senior year in high school and that hasn’t changed. That doesn’t mean that I think that liberal professors are out to brainwash their students. That’s just ridiculous.
Excellent post 👍
 
of course when one defines as critical thinking anyone who agrees with their views it is no wonder you believe only liberals are critical thinkers Liberalism is a wonderful philosophy.It works well in every term paper the"clinical thinkers" ever wrote" Problem is it doesn’t work very well in the real world.
Critical thinking of liberals would note that it hasn’t worked well in the real world, because “True Socialism” has just not been tried yet.
Hope springs eternal in the hearts of those who see no need to connect their fantasy theories to reality.
 
a persons voting prefetences are taken into account in hiring Thats why only 6% of academics vote Republican
Only 6% of academics are Republican? What survey research is this based on? I would think most academics are Independent rather than Democrat or Republican these days. Anyhow, political affiliation rarely comes up in discussion in my Department.
 
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_beliefs_of_academics

I am always astonished how many academics, schooled in the ways of research, are unable to present links to refute the claims that they doubt.
I think the issue though is that sometimes posters make claims and it is perfectly reasonable to ask people to back up those claims. For example, a poster claimed that 6% of college professors were republican and that republicans weren’t hired based on their political views. Now as an academic, the first thing I do when someone makes a claim is to ask them to back it up, which anyone who makes a claim should be able to do. Are you suggesting that people should be able to make claims and not have to back them up?
 
I’m just going to assume you didn’t read the thread before making that comment.
Of course I saw that post - I just don’t see where you made a convincing case that the laundry list of universities you mentioned are somehow " very conservative". And you still have not addressed my point that the non-leftist schools you mentioned - Ave Maria, Liberty university, etc. are even remotely as influential and significant as the Ivy League schools, MIT, UC Berkeley, Stanford, etc. And trust me, it doesn’t end with those schools. Have you seen a school newspaper that isn’t leftist?

Ishii
 
I think the issue though is that sometimes posters make claims and it is perfectly reasonable to ask people to back up those claims. For example, a poster claimed that 6% of college professors were republican and that republicans weren’t hired based on their political views. Now as an academic, the first thing I do when someone makes a claim is to ask them to back it up, which anyone who makes a claim should be able to do. Are you suggesting that people should be able to make claims and not have to back them up?
Exactly. People are making claims and not backing them up, and instead expecting us to refute every claim they make. When they do post studies, they’ve posted one that “studied” the 32 most-liberal private schools in New England and the Pacific NW and extrapolated that to the nation (which would be the equivalent of analyzing the electorate of Starbucks-users in New England and the Pacific NW and saying that the country was overwhelmingly Democrat as a result). Their second study made no reference to which universities they even studied, which is highly suspect. I have yet to see a study with big, conservative Southern universities also represented, which would ACTUALLY be a comprehensive list.
Of course I saw that post - I just don’t see where you made a convincing case that the laundry list of universities you mentioned are somehow " very conservative". And you still have not addressed my point that the non-leftist schools you mentioned - Ave Maria, Liberty university, etc. are even remotely as influential and significant as the Ivy League schools, MIT, UC Berkeley, Stanford, etc. And trust me, it doesn’t end with those schools. Have you seen a school newspaper that isn’t leftist?

Ishii
Absolutely. We had a (ridiculously overt) liberal newspaper and a conservative newspaper at my school. We had Christian groups and we had LGBT groups. Etc., etc.

And so? I responded to your claim that they weren’t as influential by pointing out that there were many very-conservative big schools you can send your child to. I originally mentioned them as a school you could send your child to if you didn’t want to send them to a big school, but I also referenced the big school options.
 
I think the issue though is that sometimes posters make claims and it is perfectly reasonable to ask people to back up those claims. For example, a poster claimed that 6% of college professors were republican and that republicans weren’t hired based on their political views. Now as an academic, the first thing I do when someone makes a claim is to ask them to back it up, which anyone who makes a claim should be able to do. Are you suggesting that people should be able to make claims and not have to back them up?
It is perfectly reasonable to ask.
. However, when the actual statistics are in all probability known by a professional researcher and a long-standing member in the social science field, but drawing attemtion and overtly recognizing those statistics might necessitate doing damage control, it is not unreasonable to see how bias plays itself out in academia.
It is happening right now, for those who have the stomach to look.

It is not brainwashing. There is no truth serum and sleep deprivation involved. There is only the tendency to present one side of reality, and ignore all those things that don’t exactly fit into the world view that one holds.

So no, I am not saying that people making claims should not back them up. (It is also quite easy to refute exaggerated claims by presenting what research skills allow you access to). What I am saying quite the opposite in fact, since I quite easily backed up what I have been saying up, frivolous banter not included.
The ball is in the court of liberal academics now, to make their case that their liberal bias is not having an impact on the direction that society is taking.

What I see here is how people who are likely the least biased in academia showing their bias in full display in fact.
 
It is not brainwashing. There is no truth serum and sleep deprivation involved. There is only the tendency to present one side of reality, and ignore all those things that don’t exactly fit into the world view that one holds.
And what of the conservative bias in the media? How much influence does that have on the population? Or is that a very different matter?
 
I AM a young person. I’m only 24. I was on a college campus in 2008. Were there people happy that Obama won? Well, duh. There were also people who weren’t happy about it. I remember the day after the election a guy showed up to my history class late. The professor locks the door when class starts and this guy was banging on the door. She opened it and said that class had already started and he was interrupting. The guy said," well my president is black. I don’t need this class." The professor informed him that Obama was everyone’s president and that didn’t mean that her attendance policies had changed.

Do people change their minds? Yes. I know people who went from Democrat to Republican and I know people who went from Republican to Democrat. That doesn’t mean that the professors are twisting people’s arms. It usually has to do with who you are hanging out with, not some teacher you see a few hours a week.
My husband thought he was a liberal until he started having his political science classes. I was a registered Republican my senior year in high school and that hasn’t changed. That doesn’t mean that I think that liberal professors are out to brainwash their students. That’s just ridiculous.
Hi Kendra. You still aren’t really getting my point. You’re anecdotes about your own personal experience are great, and I have my own as well. But your anecdotes do little to refute the case that I and others have made that academia is biased toward the left. I took an informal look at a variety of college newspapers and here is what I found:

U of Washington daily: globalization, legalize marijuana, George Zimmerman is a racist killer.

U of Oregon Emerald: sympathetic “news article” on rally for gay marriage, opinion piece: anyone who opposes gay marriage is a homophobe.

U of Georgia “red and black” : opinion piece - Zimmerman got off because of racism.

Baylor U: not much - mostly local school issues, tuition, etc.

Didn’t have time to check all the schools - but I think the opinions expressed by the school journalists to an extent can reflect the overall bias in atleast the journalism departments.

Ishii
 
And what of the conservative bias in the media? How much influence does that have on the population? Or is that a very different matter?
BBC is not an example of conservative bias in the media, nor is CBC.

Fox News is the conservative bias station in America, Conservative talk radio, is conservative, as it purports to be. The rest of the MSM, New York Times, LA newpapers, etc. is covertly left leaning.
More to the point of this thread, journalist schools tend to be left-leaning, from what I heard, so it ought not be a surprise to find that much of the news has a particular left wing slant.

The big difference between attitudes in American and Europe though, I think, has a lot to do with the existence of conservative talk radio—only in America.

Having a different point of view presented to listeners does have an effect. Dennis Prager says as much on his radio show. It would strain credulity to aver that it has no effect.

It would be astonishing that people would pretend that this does not have an effect on students too.

And yet, that is what the academics here are telling us.
 
… But your anecdotes do little to refute the case that I and others have made that academia is biased toward the left.
o…

Ishii
I have taken college social sciences courses, and rightly or wrongly, the constant message was that anecdotal information does not give the same kind of reliability as scientifically controlled studies.
I am sure that that is the case still, for time and again, I hear young people say as much on these forums.
Why then, has it invariably been anecdotal evidence that academics here are turning to in order to make their case against bias in the classroom?
 
And what of the conservative bias in the media? How much influence does that have on the population? Or is that a very different matter?
There isn’t a conservative bias in the us media. Unless you view NY Times, Wash Post LA times , ABC. NBC. CBS, etc as conservative. ( which they’re not - unless you’re coming from a perspective of the far left where anything not far left is viewed as “conservative”.

Ishii
 
I have taken college social sciences courses, and rightly or wrongly, the constant message was that anecdotal information does not give the same kind of reliability as scientifically controlled studies.
I am sure that that is the case still, for time and again, I hear young people say as much on these forums.
Why then, has it invariably been anecdotal evidence that academics here are turning to in order to make their case against bias in the classroom?
Because that is all they have to offer as refutation of the bias in the classroom.

Oh, and here are a couple of more school newspapers from the “very conservative” universities offered as proof that there is no liberal bias in academia:

**Clemson Tiger news **: Article supporting rap song on gay marriage. Fair news article on Syria issue.

Rice University Thresher: Sympathetic news article on gay marriage. Pro-Obama opinion article. Zimmerman is a racist. Article on how happy Democrat students were to meet Obama.

**Vanderbilt U. “Inside Vandy”: **Obamacare is a striking achievement. Sympathetic article on campus visit by “LGBTQI” activist.

:hmmm:

Ishii
 
Because that is all they have to offer as refutation of the bias in the classroom.
I think part of the problem is what do you mean by “bias in the classroom”. There are studies that show that college professors are much more likely to be liberal than conservative. Now, the question is, how does this translate into the classroom? Is there a tendency to use the classroom as a bully pulpit to push political views? There are some examples of that, otherwise this thread would not exist. But is such behavior pervasive? There is little data on that one way or another.
 
Hi Kendra. You still aren’t really getting my point. You’re anecdotes about your own personal experience are great, and I have my own as well. But your anecdotes do little to refute the case that I and others have made that academia is biased toward the left. I took an informal look at a variety of college newspapers and here is what I found:

U of Washington daily: globalization, legalize marijuana, George Zimmerman is a racist killer.

U of Oregon Emerald: sympathetic “news article” on rally for gay marriage, opinion piece: anyone who opposes gay marriage is a homophobe.

U of Georgia “red and black” : opinion piece - Zimmerman got off because of racism.

Baylor U: not much - mostly local school issues, tuition, etc.

Didn’t have time to check all the schools - but I think the opinions expressed by the school journalists to an extent can reflect the overall bias in atleast the journalism departments.

Ishii
Those school newspapers may be liberal or have liberal articles, but not all clubs are. I’m sure if you look, you will find conservative articles in college newspapers too. Are you wanting a “conservative” only school? You aren’t going to get it. You also aren’t going to get a “liberal” only school, even those heavily liberal schools will have conservative clubs. I’m perfectly fine with having a diverse campus. The whole world is diverse, better get used to it. 🤷
 
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