MSU professor William Penn pulled from classroom after attack on Republicans

[Darryl1958]

It’s interesting which part you pick to reply to. (By the way that reply of yours is simply rhetoric.)

ATB

It was the only part of your response that interested me.
It is not rhetoric to point out the reason why liberal ideas sell better.
Far from being anti-greed, socialism is an appeal to greed.
Which is why true socialism will happen when pigs fly. It is based in rhetoric with no ties to either reason or reality.

If critical thinking skills were still the goal of universities, rather than indoctrination, the fact that liberal ideas are what is based in rhetoric and their appeal to our insecurities, would be clear enough for all to see.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

It was the only part of your response that interested me.
It is not rhetoric to point out the reason why liberal ideas sell better.
Far from being anti-greed, socialism is an appeal to greed.
Which is why true socialism will happen when pigs fly. It is based in rhetoric with no ties to either reason or reality.

If critical thinking skills were still the goal of universities, rather than indoctrination, the fact that liberal ideas are what is based in rhetoric and their appeal to our insecurities, would be clear enough for all to see.

Well, I’ll try harder next time. (More rhetoric by the way)

 

[SMGS127]

The liberal bias of higher education is a statement of fact, not opinion.

It is either correct, or incorrect. If it is correct, then it is a reality to be dealt with. If it is false, then contrary statistics really ought to be posted in order to dispel it is as being untrue.

The belief in a liberal bias lies in statistics which show the arts and the humanities to be almost exclusively taught by people who are to the left side of the political spectrum. I simply see that as the reality that we have to deal with when we sign up for an education, or our children do.
Statement of fact, or noting that facts are what define reality, are not acts of rudeness. For sure, liberals who consider themselves bastions of tolerance and open-mindedness, do not like to note just how uniform and one-sided their own world has become, but it is a world very much of their own making.

It is a good thing that a professor who is particularly obnoxious in his leftist bias goes against the sensitivities of his liberal colleagues. Organizations like Campus Watch and actions like David Horowitz’s Academic Bill of Rights show a fuller picture of a problem that the OP only touches upon.

I would love to see statistics showing the liberal tilt of American universities. I find it very disheartening that the only “study” someone on this thread could come up with to oppose my assertion that academia was balanced across schools, but not necessarily within schools, was a “study” that showed that the 32 most-liberal private schools in New England and the Pacific NW had a large majority of liberal professors, as if that should be shocking or indicative of any nationwide trend. If you can oppose me with “facts,” please do so sir.

As for the media, I have, in another thread, detailed that conservative media is, in fact, the most-watched, most-listened to, etc. Liberal newspapers are all dying and going bankrupt and conservatives are catching up in that area, despite not even nearly matching yet. But just like TV, which used to have a huge liberal tilt in the 80s and 90s, they will eventually come to dominate newspapers too. Look at the recent rise in the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, and the Dallas Morning News has always been strong. Conservatives also already have nearly 100% of talk radio and a majority of TV viewership, and quite honestly, newspapers are the easiest forms of media to pick and choose between based on your political fancy.

There is a persecution mentality among conservatives where they need to feel persecuted to get fired up. You absolutely cannot deny that. Look at the claims of “Christian persecution” by FOX News every December when a store owner is nice to his Jewish community by saying “Happy Holidays.” Look at the [entirely conservative] idea that a really, really bad NFL quarterback (Tim Tebow) was somehow “persecuted” for his faith, despite extremely prominent Christians starting for the Redskins (RGIII) and Chargers (Philip Rivers), and despite Tebow being offered numerous jobs if he would switch to fullback or tight end. The idea that these instances are Christian persecution is insulting to the martyrs who have died for our Faith, and would mark a huge contrast to the Christians who are dying in large #s in the Middle East and Africa right now.

In short:

There is no liberal media bias anymore, and in fact conservatives have taken over a majority of watched/listened to news media now.

There is, if any, only a miniscule liberal lean to academia, and there are a huge quantity of conservative schools one can send their child to if they are so worried about it. If you send your daughter to Smith, don’t come crying to me that she’s getting a liberal education.

There is no "War on Christmas."

Gay anti-discrimination bills are not spooky, secretive, back-door methods to shut down Christianity.

Conservatives are not being persecuted in this country.

 

[SaintAugustine]

I would love to see statistics showing the liberal tilt of American universities. I find it very disheartening that the only “study” someone on this thread could come up with to oppose my assertion that academia was balanced across schools, but not necessarily within schools, was a “study” that showed that the 32 most-liberal private schools in New England and the Pacific NW had a large majority of liberal professors, as if that should be shocking or indicative of any nationwide trend. If you can oppose me with “facts,” please do so sir.

As for the media, I have, in another thread, detailed that conservative media is, in fact, the most-watched, most-listened to, etc. Liberal newspapers are all dying and going bankrupt and conservatives are catching up in that area, despite not even nearly matching yet. But just like TV, which used to have a huge liberal tilt in the 80s and 90s, they will eventually come to dominate newspapers too. Look at the recent rise in the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, and the Dallas Morning News has always been strong. Conservatives also already have nearly 100% of talk radio and a majority of TV viewership, and quite honestly, newspapers are the easiest forms of media to pick and choose between based on your political fancy.

There is a persecution mentality among conservatives where they need to feel persecuted to get fired up. You absolutely cannot deny that. Look at the claims of “Christian persecution” by FOX News every December when a store owner is nice to his Jewish community by saying “Happy Holidays.” Look at the [entirely conservative] idea that a really, really bad NFL quarterback (Tim Tebow) was somehow “persecuted” for his faith, despite extremely prominent Christians starting for the Redskins (RGIII) and Chargers (Philip Rivers), and despite Tebow being offered numerous jobs if he would switch to fullback or tight end. The idea that these instances are Christian persecution is insulting to the martyrs who have died for our Faith, and would mark a huge contrast to the Christians who are dying in large #s in the Middle East and Africa right now.

In short:

There is no liberal media bias anymore, and in fact conservatives have taken over a majority of watched/listened to news media now.

There is, if any, only a miniscule liberal lean to academia, and there are a huge quantity of conservative schools one can send their child to if they are so worried about it. If you send your daughter to Smith, don’t come crying to me that she’s getting a liberal education.

There is no "War on Christmas."

Gay anti-discrimination bills are not spooky, secretive, back-door methods to shut down Christianity.

Conservatives are not being persecuted in this country.

And, everything is rainbows and unicorns…

 

[ishii]

I would love to see statistics showing the liberal tilt of American universities. I find it very disheartening that the only “study” someone on this thread could come up with to oppose my assertion that academia was balanced across schools, but not necessarily within schools, was a “study” that showed that the 32 most-liberal private schools in New England and the Pacific NW had a large majority of liberal professors, as if that should be shocking or indicative of any nationwide trend. If you can oppose me with “facts,” please do so sir.

You were presented with statistics showing the overwhelming Democrat party affiliation in the elite universities - including MIT and University of California and others. Your response was: “but Liberty University and Sacred Heart University are conservative” - as if a few traditional Catholic or Christian universities somehow outweigh the universities in the study by David Horowitz. Atleast we presented an actual study - you responded with an endlessly repeated mantra.

As for the media, I have, in another thread, detailed that conservative media is, in fact, the most-watched, most-listened to, etc. Liberal newspapers are all dying and going bankrupt and conservatives are catching up in that area, despite not even nearly matching yet. But just like TV, which used to have a huge liberal tilt in the 80s and 90s, they will eventually come to dominate newspapers too. Look at the recent rise in the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, and the Dallas Morning News has always been strong. Conservatives also already have nearly 100% of talk radio and a majority of TV viewership, and quite honestly, newspapers are the easiest forms of media to pick and choose between based on your political fancy.

I haven’t seen the thread where you detail conservative domination of the media. I guess conservatives have Fox, talk radio, and a few newspapers. You’re right the old liberal dominated media might in fact be crumbling - and if they are losing viewers and readership then good. However, the behavior of the press during the last two presidential campaigns would seem to indicate that rumors of the liberal demise are exaggerated. Recall the smear job on Sarah Palin in 2008. Did Katie Couric focus on Obama’s lack of credentials? In 2012 the mainstream press was almost an arm of the Obama campaign: recall the media created and bogus “war on women” which focused negative attention on the GOP while Obama’s failures were virtually ignored and Biden’s endless gaffes were laughed off. Recall the press corp following Romney campaign in the direct aftermath of Benghazi - planning on how best to trip him up (caught on tape). Speaking of Benghazi (even though you’d probably like to forget that sordid event) - recall Candy Crowley’s rescue of Obama in the debate as Romney prepared to grill Obama on the issue.

In short:

There is no liberal media bias anymore, and in fact conservatives have taken over a majority of watched/listened to news media now.

Yes there is a liberal media bias. (see I can do that too).

There is, if any, only a miniscule liberal lean to academia, and there are a huge quantity of conservative schools ****one can send their child to if they are so worried about it. If you send your daughter to Smith, don’t come crying to me that she’s getting a liberal education.

Yes there is a left/liberal bias in academia. And what is this “huge quantity of conservative schools” of which you speak? Care to name them? Perhaps a study you can cite? (facts are much more convincing than your anecdotes).

There is no "War on Christmas."

Gay anti-discrimination bills are not spooky, secretive, back-door methods to shut down Christianity.

Conservatives are not being persecuted in this country.

Not yet. But give it time - the erosion of respect for traditional institutions continues: particularly with the ramming of gay marriage down our throats. I can envision a time when it will be considered a hate crime for priests to not perform gay marriages.

The whole “happy holidays” nonsense is pure liberal political correctness run amok. The secular/atheists definitely have a war on Christmas.

In short - your post here is utterly unconvincing. It amounts to a series of statements that are not backed up at all, but nonetheless you present them as though they are supposed to end the debate on this topic somehow.

I and others have presented studies, facts, statistics, etc in support of our contention that academia is biased toward the left. But by all means, please provide us with convincing evidence of conservative parity in academia.

Ishii

 

[Julian_Bashir]

And, everything is rainbows and unicorns…

The only liberals or conservatives worth debating are one’s that are intellectually honest with you. Having a hard time admitting there is a liberal bias within media and academia is like me having a hard time that the majority of talk radio stations are conservative. It isn’t worth the argument.

I think when someone says “I just don’t see the bias” they are actually saying “I don’t really mind the bias.”

 

[ishii]

The only liberals or conservatives worth debating are one’s that are intellectually honest with you. Having a hard time admitting there is a liberal bias within media and academia is like me having a hard time that the majority of talk radio stations are conservative. It isn’t worth the argument.

I think when someone says “I just don’t see the bias” they are actually saying “I don’t really mind the bias.”

That is true. Then there are the ones who are so far left that they view the mainstream news as “corporate” and conservative. My many communist professors at my “non-biased, conservative college” used to make that argument.

Ishii

 

[robwar]

The only liberals or conservatives worth debating are one’s that are intellectually honest with you. Having a hard time admitting there is a liberal bias within media and academia is like me having a hard time that the majority of talk radio stations are conservative. It isn’t worth the argument.

I think when someone says “I just don’t see the bias” they are actually saying “I don’t really mind the bias.”

yes this is it! Likewise those who don’t see bias or claim they haven’t experienced it are like frogs that are slowing being boiled alive. Put a frog in a pot of water and then slowly turn up the heat until he is boiled alive. but the frog doesn’t know it because it adjusts to the slowly increasing temperature and sees it as normal.

 

[Darryl1958]

cwu.edu/~manwellerm/academic%20bias.pdf

 

[Darryl1958]

And, everything is rainbows and unicorns…

Studies that don/t jive with what common sense and experience already tells us are usually flawed in the first place.

Still it is rather astonishing that young college educated people schooled in a technological age are always demanding the old fogies to come up with the studies.

 

[Darryl1958]

The only liberals or conservatives worth debating are one’s that are intellectually honest with you. Having a hard time admitting there is a liberal bias within media and academia is like me having a hard time that the majority of talk radio stations are conservative. It isn’t worth the argument.

I think when someone says “I just don’t see the bias” they are actually saying “I don’t really mind the bias.”

Any of the fight wing radio that I have listened to are upfront instating that they are right wing.

Amazingly, liberals have no idea that they are liberals. They show no such self0awareness that they actually have a point of view too.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Any of the fight wing radio that I have listened to are upfront instating that they are right wing.

Amazingly, liberals have no idea that they are liberals. They show no such self0awareness that they actually have a point of view too.

Maybe Freud was on to something after all.

ATB

 

[Brendan_64]

This isn’t a middle school classroom that he was teaching, he was teaching adults. If college-aged people don’t have a backbone and can’t form an opinion on their own so sad for them, it isn’t some professor that they see 3 hours a week fault.

These aren’t impressionable kids in the classroom, these are adults.

At the age of 15 I had a teacher who used to bang on about feminism, and anti-nuclear power in a biology class. At that age I just used to think, “Stop talking nonsense and get back to teaching biology”. University students would just switch off if they didn’t agree with the guy.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Yes there is a left/liberal bias in academia. And what is this “huge quantity of conservative schools” of which you speak? Care to name them? Perhaps a study you can cite? (facts are much more convincing than your anecdotes).

Here is some actual data that would suggest a liberal bias. The full study is linked below the quote.

In Spring 2003, a large-scale survey of American academics was conducted using academic association membership lists from six fields: Anthropology, Economics, History, Philosophy (political and legal), Political Science, and Sociology. This paper focuses on one question: To which political party have the candidates you’ve voted for in the past ten years mostly belonged? The question was answered by 96.4 percent of academic respondents. The results show that the faculty is heavily skewed towards voting Democratic. The most lopsided fields surveyed are Anthropology with a D to R ratio of 30.2 to 1, and Sociology with 28.0 to 1. The least lopsided is Economics with 3.0 to 1. After Economics, the least lopsided is Political Science with 6.7 to 1. The average of the six ratios by field is about 15 to 1. Our analysis and related research suggest that for the the social sciences and humanities overall, a “one-big-pool” ratio of 7 to 1 is a safe lower-bound estimate, and 8 to 1 or 9 to 1 are reasonable point estimates. Thus, the social sciences and humanities are dominated by Democrats. There is little ideological diversity. We discuss Stephen Balch’s “property rights” proposal to help remedy the situation.

swopec.hhs.se/ratioi/abs/ratioi0053.htm

 

[Brendan_64]

Here is some actual data that would suggest a liberal bias. The full study is linked below the quote.

In Spring 2003, a large-scale survey of American academics was conducted using academic association membership lists from six fields: Anthropology, Economics, History, Philosophy (political and legal), Political Science, and Sociology. This paper focuses on one question: To which political party have the candidates you’ve voted for in the past ten years mostly belonged? The question was answered by 96.4 percent of academic respondents. The results show that the faculty is heavily skewed towards voting Democratic. The most lopsided fields surveyed are Anthropology with a D to R ratio of 30.2 to 1, and Sociology with 28.0 to 1. The least lopsided is Economics with 3.0 to 1. After Economics, the least lopsided is Political Science with 6.7 to 1. The average of the six ratios by field is about 15 to 1. Our analysis and related research suggest that for the the social sciences and humanities overall, a “one-big-pool” ratio of 7 to 1 is a safe lower-bound estimate, and 8 to 1 or 9 to 1 are reasonable point estimates. Thus, the social sciences and humanities are dominated by Democrats. There is little ideological diversity. We discuss Stephen Balch’s “property rights” proposal to help remedy the situation.

That isn’t evidence of bias in the classroom/lecture hall. All that shows is that most academics vote Democrat.

All of us are entitled to vote for who we like, even academics. The fact that a person votes for a political party does not, in any way, mean that they will be pushing particular political views in the classroom.

Or are you suggesting that a person’s voting preferences should be taken into consideration when employing that person? Affirmative action for academics who vote Republican when they apply for jobs?

 

[Julian_Bashir]

These aren’t impressionable kids in the classroom, these are adults.

At the age of 15 I had a teacher who used to bang on about feminism, and anti-nuclear power in a biology class. At that age I just used to think, “Stop talking nonsense and get back to teaching biology”. University students would just switch off if they didn’t agree with the guy.

If you honestly believe college students are not easily influenced and are able to have their opinions swayed, I don’t know what to say. That is what we are told is one of the primary goals of college. Whether or not students should be able to influenced by a bully’s ideology is irrelevant. They often are. There are many things that “should not” be the way that are, but that ignores the reality of the situation.

If the teacher was concerned about critical thinking, he was engage a dialogue, and not present harsh opinions as fact. A teacher like wouldn’t affect me at all, but lots of college students are vacuous spaces that parrot back whatever they are told, like it or not.

If we go that route, I’d simply prefer educators parrot back un debatable Catholic teachings, but somehow, I doubt a teacher would get the same level of support if he was a shill for Christ the way this guy is a shill for liberal mantras.

 

[Brendan_64]

If you honestly believe college students are not easily influenced and are able to have their opinions swayed, I don’t know what to say. That is what we are told is one of the primary goals of college. .

Really? So the goal of further education is to influence and sway opinion? And there was me thinking that the aim was to present points and develop skills of discernment and rational discussion.

At the age of 18, students are able to decide for themselves and make up their own minds.

 

[estesbob]

That isn’t evidence of bias in the classroom/lecture hall. All that shows is that most academics vote Democrat.

All of us are entitled to vote for who we like, even academics. The fact that a person votes for a political party does not, in any way, mean that they will be pushing particular political views in the classroom.

Or are you suggesting that a person’s voting preferences should be taken into consideration when employing that person? Affirmative action for academics who vote Republican when they apply for jobs?

a persons voting prefetences are taken into account in hiring Thats why only 6% of academics vote Republican

 

[stinkcat_14]

a persons voting prefetences are taken into account in hiring Thats why only 6% of academics vote Republican

Can you provide some evidence of this? It could be that people who vote republican are less likely to get a Ph.D in the first place. Now, whether it is because people who vote republican are not treated well in graduate school or they just choose to focus on other activities rather than getting a Ph.D is an open question. In my field of economics I have never had political preferences ever surface as a question in an interview nor have I had a search committee member bring up the issue of political preferences either and I have chaired many search committees.

Still, the fact remains that the majority of academics are democrats. Why that is the case, we still don’t exactly know.

 

[ManOnFire]

An unbiased source needs to perform a research project to investigate the rewards center of the brains of the “helper” type of personalities. I’m confident this professor is frustrated over society’s growing inner city poverty and lack of education and honestly believes he is “helping” in his own mind. Why are liberals so closed minded about seeing that the root CAUSES of these problems are liberal behaviors? The GROWING number of single mothers struggling to raise kids because their men don’t want to help is the fault of Republicans who see that it’s illogical to pay women to GROW the cycle of poverty and create more enslavement to the System? Where’s the logic? Once she has one child, she must choose between stay-at-home versus work/school/daycare, the numbers don’t add up, and it’s not fair to keep raising taxes on married parents who are struggling to fund their own kids due to the actions of her own Free Will. Blame others much? It’s hard to believe that parents are paying 6 figures to send kids to college to hear bigoted views (the true definition, not the kind the media has defined) and gross lack of logic from a professor.

Mr. Professor, if you want to help the inner city, encourage their women to not become enslaved to the System by weak men who will turn them into sex-and-run victims who will struggle to raise kids with little to no emotional or financial support from the father. This will allow her the freedom to get an education and a financial head start in life. This will be TRUE progress!