Multiculturalism?

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UpUpAndAway said:
So…it is impossible for me to learn anything about Russian culture unless I’m fluent in the Russian language?
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IMHO, your knowledge of Russian culture will be incomplete if you do not know the Russian language.

Жаль, но это так во многих культурах.
 
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AlNg said:
IMHO, your knowledge of Russian culture will be incomplete if you do not know the Russian language.
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I think you misunderstand me: I did not say one could gain complete knowledge of another culture without mastering its language.
 
UpUpAndAway said:
I think you misunderstand me: I did not say one could gain complete knowledge of another culture without mastering its language.
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IMHO, it is difficult to get to know another culture well without actually living in the country for a while and speaking the language. I spent some time in Budapest Hungary and at Lake Balaton, but I am afraid that I still do not know that much about Hungarian culture and language. I find their language quite difficult to learn. Anyway, the waitresses don’t like my pronunciation and they switch to English if I try to say something in Hungarian. For example when I asked for a small spoon (kis kanal) the waitress though I was asking for coca cola. That is how bad my accent is.
 
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AlNg said:
IMHO, it is difficult to get to know another culture well without actually living in the country for a while and speaking the language.
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But this is not what we’re talking about in this thread. The OP spoke of interacting with immigrants in his country, not embarking on a mission to fully assimilate into another culture.
 
“Culture” can be difficult to define or it can be difficult for everyone to have the same definition of.

These are the two definitions given by google. I would probably go by the 2nd one.
1 - “The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.”
2 - “The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.”

Learning the culture of every nationality in this country is an impossible task. I would suggest that the responsibility lies on the immigrant to learn the culture and language of the nation that they are going to.
 
Drew G.I. Hart describes an interaction he had with a Christian Religious leader in which the leader used a cup of coffee to say I don’t know your culture and you don’t know mine, to which Hart responds by a strong explanation on how he, as a black man, knew both while the white man knew only his own.
“The truth of the matter is that I wouldn’t have been on track to a PHD without becoming intimately familiar with the various ways white people think” (Hart 25).
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“When You ‘Fit the Description.’” Trouble I’ve Seen: Changing the Way the Church Views Racism , by Drew G. I. Hart, Herald Press, 2016, pp. 24–25.
 
AlNg said:
IMHO, your knowledge of Russian culture will be incomplete if you do not know the Russian language.
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The goal with multiculturalism should be cultural sensitivity. Cultural competency is an elusive goal. Building on your example, I’d have to be Russian in order to understand Russian culture thoroughly. I only need to be human to have an open heart and open mind to learn from the Russians.
 
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You don’t have to go that far afield. Many French expressions don’t translate into English, despite the two countries being side by side.

However, in English, useful foreign words are just made part of the language once enough people know them (e.g. French “élan.” )

ICXC NIKA
 
Methinks you meant “elusive” rather than “illusive.”

The first simply means that it eludes you; that it takes too long or is too difficult. The second means that the goal as such is an illusion.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
. Many French expressions don’t translate into English, despite the two countries being side by side.
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Yes. Even a simple word like voila can mean a bit more in French than a simple There it is. Dépaysement can mean something between culture shock and homesickness when you feel disoriented in a foreign country. If you are talking about the care, the work, the climate, the soil, the geography that goes into your French wine, you might use the word terroir. I don’t see the English word equivalent to that ?
 
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I’m a full-blooded mutt, as a matter of fact my one of great-grandmothers was from Sweden (hey distant relative!), with regards to multiculturalism, let me put it this way, there’s a reason that in parts of Africa, liturgical dance is considered fine, and here in North America, or at least in the English-speaking parts of North America, it isn’t. I think it depends on what you mean by multiculturalism. I would prefer that everyone was the same religion, namely that they were all Catholic Christians, but that doesn’t mean that they have to give up what makes them unique, after all the Church has a different liturgies for different parts of the world.
 
Problem with Multiculturalism is if you embrace all cultures equally you can’t administer a system of justice and laws according to one culture when immigrants from foreign cultures break the law but then assert they didn’t do anything wrong according to their culture. It just leads to complete social breakdown. Examples abound of immigrants killing family members (man killing wife for committing adultery, parents killing daughter for dating another race, etc) and then saying in court those killings are ok according to their culture
 
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I’m not familiar with the situation in Sweden but I hve first hand expereince of multiculturalism in several other European countries having lived there. Individuals seeking to live and work in a different culture is one thing, and as an individual you are typically interested in understanding and adapting to your host country. But what has happened in recent times has been the large scale implantation of entire communities who are estranged from the host country and to a certain degree disrespect it. Integration needs to be a two way street and if you have certain groups who refuse to change but demand the host country changes to make things easier for them, then you have a problem. People in government are either blind to this or too full of pity for the immigrants that they fail to adequately speak out and take action. This in turn means voters are turning to far right parties who are peddling dangerous ideas. Why? Not because people necessarily support those ideas (they don’t) but because nobody else has an ear for their concerns. This is happeneing in Sweden at an alarming rate.

What does the Church have to say about this? I have heard many priests speak up against it and condemn those in power for their unwillingness to take these problems seriously. But the higher levels of the church hierarchy have not yet awoken to the problem and continue to take a rose-tinted view of things.
 
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Cirdan_XII said:
People in government are either blind to this or too full of pity for the immigrants that they fail to adequately speak out and take action. This in turn means voters are turning to far right parties who are peddling dangerous ideas. Why? Not because people necessarily support those ideas (they don’t) but because nobody else has an ear for their concerns.
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Thank you for putting into words an idea I have had but have been unable to articulate.
 
Cirdan_XII said:
What does the Church have to say about this?
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CCC 2241: The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
 
The Spanish word “aguantar” is another example.

In English it means to put up with, to tolerate but then it also means more than that.
 
People still think they should live like they did in their home countries.
I mean, many people do respect their new countries but just take a look at Rinkeby.
I will avoid this place!!!
 
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