Muslim fury grows at Pope's speech

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I really have to ask this - are you really a Catholic Christian, or one just pretending to be for the sake of offering up such a ridiculous argument?
I think its the latter. Apostolic sucession is the one fo the core beleifs of our church. It would be hard to disbelieve that and still consider oneself catholic. Either that or he is so intent on blaming the Pope for actions of radical Muslims logic hads flown out the window.
 
Nope, you are incorrect:

Iran seminaries shut in protest at pope remarks
Middle East Times, Egypt
schools to shut had come from Qom’s Grand Ayatollahs, the highest-ranking of all Shiite clerics. In a speech in his native Germany Tuesday, the pope spoke of a

Hundreds of Iranians also demonstrated against the pope in cities across Iran. In Qom, the religious capital of Iran’s 70 million Shiite Muslims, hardline cleric Ahmad Khatami said the pope and Bush were “united in order to repeat the Crusades.”

However, it is not to be expected that all Muslim clerics would be satisfied, such as Lebanese Shiite community leader Great Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, who called for a ‘personal apology’ from the pope.
Protests do not concern me, after all it is only to be expected that if one feels that their religon has been insulted that they would protest one way or another. but as i mentioned in a previous post, it seems that the protests actually escalating into small forms of violence has so far been limited to kashmir and west bank. which means either this may be a venting of anger from the fighting in those regions, or as someone else has mentioned, it may be a sunni vs. shia thing
 
You mean from the people who are threatening to start a war, the people threatening to blow up churches, or the reason for the security lockdown at the Vatican right now?
Oh really? Which ones?
From the tone of your posts, I get the feeling nothing short of SpongeBob SquarePants could do that
…you are judging this Pope. We get it. Since he’s Christ’s appointed representative on earth that is actually the worst idea EVER. I do have to tell you that in case you don’t know. I also have to warn you to watch your step. I don’t think you want to be questioning God’s taste in leaders.
Against what? Let me get this right. You, “whatevergirl” believe that the Pope should join forces with evil by preaching a message of unity with it. OK, go on.
Uh huh. Tell me, what EXACTLY should he have said to praise the evil required by Mohammed in Islam? Perhaps a sentimental slide show featuring the mug shots of the 19 hijackers from 9/11 doing Ken Burns dissolves over “Wind Beneath My Wings?” Or would that be over the top? Maybe a few quiet unhandings.
…and she’s swaying…
…Coming off the rails…
And here comes the payload…
We have positive ID on a troll under ‘whatevergirl’
But not a very good troll.
And well you SHOULD. … Don’t do it!
Huh? Oh, you mean ME? No, I got nothing.
Not in a million leap-year only Sundays, whatevergirl. If that is in fact your REAL name.

You might want to start with reading the whole speech, and just keep the sniping to yourself.
thank you for your pm. i actually read it first, prior to reading this reply of yours. i accept your apology. i am stunned that you would read so far into my words like this. i’m not sure where you could contrive that i was saying the Pope should join the forces of evil. my questions were sincere, and not meant to offend anyone. I adore my faith as a Catholic, and there really isn’t anything in my post that would cause someone to think otherwise. i will reply to you further in pm…thank you, kevin.🙂
 
thank you for your pm. i actually read it first, prior to reading this reply of yours. i accept your apology. i am stunned that you would read so far into my words like this. i’m not sure where you could contrive that i was saying the Pope should join the forces of evil. my questions were sincere, and not meant to offend anyone. I adore my faith as a Catholic, and there really isn’t anything in my post that would cause someone to think otherwise. i will reply to you further in pm…thank you, kevin.🙂
You adore your faith as a Catholic- yet don’t mention it in your profile…:confused:
 
I think its the latter. Apostolic sucession is the one fo the core beleifs of our church. It would be hard to disbelieve that and still consider oneself catholic. Either that or he is so intent on blaming the Pope for actions of radical Muslims logic hads flown out the window.
Apostolic sucession doesn’t mean we’ll only get good Popes. It means that there is a lineage back to the Apostles.

If you think that throuhout the history of the Catholic Church, we only had good Pope’s, you need a course in Church History.

Also, I did not blame the Pope for the inexcusable actions by various Muslims. I merely stated that his choice of words in his lecture, in the current climate, were not wise.
 
estesbob is pretty knowledgeable - I can’t believe I am reading this…

That is a serious attack on estesbob. Why all the fighting?
 
estesbob is pretty knowledgeable - I can’t believe I am reading this…

That is a serious attack on estesbob. Why all the fighting?
Uh, no one attacked estesbob, but in fact he just accused me of being a pretend Catholic Christian.
 
i didn’t know one needed to do that, in order to be a devout Catholic…LOL:p But, I will since u bring it up…
Well, I don’t NEED to say the Rosary either. Not once. Why I would not would be silly - but technically there is no cumpulsion. But I do want to…
Just strange on a Catholic forum is all…
 
Well, I don’t NEED to say the Rosary either. Not once. Why I would not would be silly - but technically there is no cumpulsion. But I do want to…
Just strange on a Catholic forum is all…
I added that now to my profile…

I think when I set up my original profile, I didn’t see the entire section…showing hobbies, etc…so, thank you for pointing that out.

I don’t think you should pass judgement on me, though. Choose your words carefully…and speak to people in ways you would want to be talked to.🙂
 
I forgot I was trying to talk to someone who mentioned
Going to hell-

in connection with the Popes address…

God bless you whatevergirl, and your post that started all this.
 
I forgot I was trying to talk to someone who mentioned
Going to hell-

in connection with the Popes address…

God bless you whatevergirl, and your post that started all this.
actually, that statement. wasn’t in connection with the pope’s speech…i was stating that in general…that no, it is not up to me or you to decide who goes to Hell. Maybe you think because one is Christian, this gives us the right to pass such judgement…I prefer to hand the gavel over to the real Judge, who is God. Sorry you took that in the wrong way, but I did not connect that to the pope’s speech…it was connected to nothing really. I was just making a statement.
 
Originally Posted by whatevergirl
I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’

there is nothing wrong with this statement…I am Catholic, but I know no more who is going to Heaven than you do, Damascus. So, this was not intended to blend with the pope’s speech, perhaps I should have clarified that…this is my thought in general.
Again–just because I am Catholic, that doesn’t give me the right to point any fingers at who will be in Heaven, and who won’t…the truth is…none of us knows. God is merciful, and who knows? Muslims who were never witnessed to about Christ, could make it to Heaven, for God does not condemn the innoncent, nor the ignorant.
 
Originally Posted by whatevergirl
I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’

there is nothing wrong with this statement…I am Catholic, but I know no more who is going to Heaven than you do, Damascus. So, this was not intended to blend with the pope’s speech, perhaps I should have clarified that…this is my thought in general.
Again–just because I am Catholic, that doesn’t give me the right to point any fingers at who will be in Heaven, and who won’t…the truth is…none of us knows. God is merciful, and who knows? Muslims who were never witnessed to about Christ, could make it to Heaven, for God does not condemn the innoncent, nor the ignorant.
You really need to read your original post again and again.

Who ever said anything about anyone going to hell BUT YOU?
 
You really need to read your original post again and again.

Who ever said anything about anyone going to hell BUT YOU?
I was asking a question about how to witness to others who are non-Christians…that is why I asked that.
 
If you want to live by oppeasing international bullies, go ahead.
I’m not convinced people do.

I don’t believe you should do anything because terrorists demand you do it. Equally though, I don’t think you should not do a thing because terrorists demand you do it.

You should do what is right to do.

Sometimes some of those ‘right’ things are the things that the terrorists demand. You do them because they are right, not because terrorists demanded them. Again, the IRA are a good example. The fact that a group of terrorists was saying we needed to treat the Catholics in Northern Ireland in a better and more equal way, shouldn’t be an excuse not to do so. That’s not ‘appeasement’ - it’s the right thing to do.

Mike
 
I ask this question sincerely…of you all here…is it right to condemn another faith, or should we just witness our loving ways and emulate Christ, in order to bring people to Christ? I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’ Know what I mean? Can someone help me better understand that??

This was actually meant to be a separate thought…has nothing to do with the pope’s speech…i reread my words, and this is a question, that I pose to all on here when preaching the Gospel to non-Christians? I know some who point fingers and believe that non-Christians are doomed to Hell…that is why I ask this. It had no relevance on the pope whatsoever…I didn’t mean to imply that the pope was condeming anyone’s faith. My statement is a question, that has trickled down from the pope’s speech, from those who are non Christians, and have asked me questions about our pope…so, I was asking how to witness to those? How others witness?

Your tone lacks charity and patience, Damascus.
 
Apostolic sucession doesn’t mean we’ll only get good Popes. It means that there is a lineage back to the Apostles.

If you think that throuhout the history of the Catholic Church, we only had good Pope’s, you need a course in Church History.

Also, I did not blame the Pope for the inexcusable actions by various Muslims. I merely stated that his choice of words in his lecture, in the current climate, were not wise.
I am afraid you are confusing “impecable” with “infallibe”. the Pope does not possess the former but does posess the latter in matters of faith and Morals. Thus we can have a “bad” Pope in terms of sin but not in terms of dogma .

You do not have a very good grasp of Apostolic Sucession. It is not just a matter of the magestrium being able to trace its roots back to the Apostles. It means that those in this line are literally in UNION with the Apostles and all who followed after them. It is not just a matter of drawing boxes on a chart and connecting them with lines. I suggest you read the Catechism to see what you are missing in you understandng:

[880](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/880.htm’);)*** When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them."398 Just as "by the Lord’s institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."399 ***
881*** The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope. ***
882*** The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403 ***
***883 “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404 ***
***884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter’s successor."406 ***
885 "This college, in so far as it is composed of many members, is the expression of the variety and universality of the People of God; and of the unity of the flock of Christ, in so far as it is assembled under one head."407 ***
886
"The individual bishops are the visible source and foundation of unity in their own particular Churches."408 As such, they "exercise their pastoral office over the portion of the People of God assigned to them,"409 assisted by priests and deacons. But, as a member of the episcopal college, each bishop shares in the concern for all the Churches.410 The bishops exercise this care first “by ruling well their own Churches as portions of the universal Church,” and so contributing "to the welfare of the whole Mystical Body, which, from another point of view, is a corporate body of Churches."411 They extend it especially to the poor,412 to those persecuted for the faith, as well as to missionaries who are working throughout the world. ******887 Neighboring particular Churches who share the same culture form ecclesiastical provinces or larger groupings called patriarchates or regions.413 The bishops of these groupings can meet in synods or provincial councils. "In a like fashion, the episcopal conferences at the present time are in a position to contribute in many and fruitful ways to the concrete realization of the collegiate spirit."414 ***

As Christ chose the first Pope all susequent Popes have likewise been chosen by God-via the Holy Spirit working through those who are in the line of Apostolic Sucession.
 
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