My #1 reason for not converting...

[BrewMax]

It might help if you point out which points Manny was wrong upon, perhaps in follow on threads.

Might also help if you highlight what is uncharitable in stating a preference for his own faith.

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

Thank you for continuing on this Forum.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am one of those who is in the process of converting. I thank God for my Christian/Protestant uprbring. Without it I would not have found the Catholic Church.

Anyone who would like to talk to someone who is converting to Catholicism from Protestantism can send me a PM.

God bless you. I participate in RCIA, I’ll be back tomorrow!

 

[mgrfin]

PS: Question from a Pentecostal I met today: “Do Catholics believe in the Holy Spirit?”

Catholics are not noted for their popular hymns, but the best known by most Catholics who have grown up as such is the English version of “Veni Creator Spiritus”, written in the 9th Century:

Come, Holy Ghost, Creator blest,
and in our souls take up Thy rest;
come with Thy grace and heavenly aid
to fill the hearts which Thou hast made.
O comforter, to Thee we cry,
O heavenly gift of God Most High,
O fount of life and fire of love,
and sweet anointing from above.
Thou in Thy sevenfold gifts are known;
Thou, finger of God’s hand we own;
Thou, promise of the Father, Thou
Who dost the tongue with power imbue.
Kindle our senses from above,
and make our hearts o’erflow with love;
with patience firm and virtue high
the weakness of our flesh supply.
Far from us drive the foe we dread,
and grant us Thy peace instead;
so shall we not, with Thee for guide,
turn from the path of life aside.
Oh, may Thy grace on us bestow
the Father and the Son to know;
and Thee, through endless times confessed,
of both the eternal Spirit blest.
Now to the Father and the Son,
Who rose from death, be glory given,
with Thou, O Holy Comforter,
henceforth by all in earth and heaven.
Amen.

Personally, I prefer the latin version.

pax

 

[Teflon93]

get a grip. luther said “sola gratia, sola fide”. yes, every protestant i know agrees with that.

Grip gotten—want one?

You apparently know only a few Protestants. Get around more.

obviously you don’t understand catholic theology that well. the church teaches that we can only have faith because of grace but that we also receive grace through faith and works. you are trying to be logical with God. it doesn’t always work. His ways are higher than ours.

You don’t understand logic at all, nor Catholic theology. Every man has sufficient grace; the law of God is written upon our hearts. Every man is capable of faith in God; not all have it. Every man is capable of doing good, not all choose to do it. Catholic theology. Get a Catechism.

the mormon analogy isn’t a good one since the Bible never says that Jesus went to America. it does say that Peter was in “Babylon”. i have never said that that doesn’t mean Rome, i simply said that it might actually mean Babylon. so are you saying that Christian missionaries only go to tourist attractions and easy places to get to? again, you need to read why i said what i did. it was in response to a comment that all we need to do is read the Bible to see that the catholic church is the true church and that simply isn’t true. to show that, i said that by purely reading the Bible, we get Peter in Babylon. it is by looking at outside sources that we understand that probably meant Rome (although him travelling to Babylone IS NOT out of the realm of possibility).

This is where your ignorance of logic is amply displayed. Because God can do anything does not mean he DOES everything. The Mormon analogy is perfectly apt because the Mormon position is essentially “Why couldn’t Christ have come to America?” It is no different than the Japanese, who claim that Christ is buried in Japan. Why not?

A degree in history really ought to imply an ability to sift source evidence and make reasoned inferences. Historians are not people who fill gaps in evidence with “Why not?”—that would be the fiction writer’s gig.

i know exactly what the church teaches and i happen to disagree slightly with it. again, read post, understand post, then respond. you seem to fail to do this a lot.

Apparently we hand history degrees to people who make claims not only without evidence, but in contradiction to it.

If I had any money invested in historical education, I’d sell short.

again, evidence you don’t give God credit. why would Peter and his mission be bound by geography. heck, Philip up and disappeared after converting the ethiopian eunoch. and again, you completely misunderstanding a post. i think, after have seeing you have no ability at comprehension… i will have to wash my hands of you. go back, read ALL the posts to see what people are saying as opposed to jumping into a conversation in the middle and assuming you know what some one is saying. catch you on the flip side.

Sure, and Peter was Bishop of Newark.

Perhaps my lack of comprehension is due to your lack of comprehensibility?

 

[Teflon93]

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

Yes, you ought seriously point these out if charity is your concern.

It might also help if you hold the same lens up to your own posts. Do you consider the bolded portion to be a fine example of charity? I simply asked you to explain your position, which was hardly a rude or slanderous inquiry.

And no, being rude or slanderous to Protestants is not an acceptable practice. However, you are not the sole arbiter of rudeness or slander; it is a common tactic to claim lack of charity or rudeness rather than to address an argument.

I’m presuming your concern is not a tactic but is genuine; what harm does a bit of explanation do?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

ECF, History, those are reasons I could read myself into the Catholic Church.

But this is really why I am Catholic.

youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo&mode=related&search=

 

[qui_est_ce]

Catholics are not noted for their popular hymns, but the best known by most Catholics who have grown up as such is the English version of “Veni Creator Spiritus”, written in the 9th Century:

Personally, I prefer the latin version.

pax

We sing this at Pentecost in choir. It is so beautiful in Latin. The verses are sung solo in different languages (I sing the French and German verses, others in Spanish and Polish). The refrain continues softly in the background in Latin. It is so beautiful!

There are other beautiful ancient hymns and chants. Tantum Ergo, Salve Regina, Ave Maria, Donna Nobis Pax, Agnus Dei, Kyrie, and my favorite, Panis Angelicus.

 

[mgrfin]

You are wrong on many counts here sir and certainly lacking in charitable remarks as well.

Well, it’s my experience here on this site that there is an overly sensitive reaction on the part of non-Catholics. Maybe non-Catholics would say the same about us.

Protestants don’t want to be reminded of our position on the Primacy of the Pope, or, on the Real Presence, or the lack of a priesthood, or on a denial of scriptural quotes favoring our doctrines, or on conciliar infallibility, or on moral issues, such as human sexuality, etc. A lot of these things they know in advance, and don’t want to be reminded of them.

The favorite criticism is that one doesn’t know anything about a particular Protestant sect, despite having tried to research it in advance. We are told what we found out in our research is wrong. What is said riles them up, and their reaction infuriates the writer.

The problem is in putting forth an opinion: do you say all most nothing, do you try to couch it in soft, flatterly terms, or do you just put it out there, not deliberating trying to hurt some one, but saying what is on your mind.

I usually say what is on my mind. Most times, I research what it is I want to say. Sometimes, I even write it out first, before copying it over to the thread.

Nonetheless, I have been attacked numerous terms, and I have decided not to react to personal slurs. I have been told that I am uncharitable, that I shouldn’t be a spokesman for the Faith, and someone said, “Thank God you are not an official greeter outside your church.” Some people like to get under your skin. We really don’t know each other. If we met face to face, we would probably like each other cause we have Religion as a subject of common interest. Maybe not.

I just think people have to resist the temptation to say what is ‘uncharitable’: “Youre an idiot”, ‘your stupid’, ‘you don’t know what you are talking about’, ‘you are prejudiced’, ‘youre thick-headed’, ‘how dare you…’

I think we all have to be careful before hitting that ‘submit’ button.

peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thank you. I guess I am an inquirer. I have attempted RCIA several times, but have not finished because of struggles going on in my life…not spiritually I want to be Catholic more than anything…just other things. I have been baptized. So anyway, thank you for answering that one for me

Your struggles are exactly why you should continue in RCIA right now. You need the support of a Christian community. You need the Graces of the Sacraments, especially the Holy Eucharist and Reconciliation, to help you shoulder life’s burdens.

 

[po18guy]

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

We’re talking about eternal life here. Bound to be some interesting discussion. I have seen Mannyfit75 in maybe a little better mood , but let’s not obscure the truth with objections to the method of delivery.

Let’s try the peace of Christ.

 

[Mannyfit75]

We’re talking about eternal life here. Bound to be some interesting discussion. I have seen Mannyfit75 in maybe a little better mood , but let’s not obscure the truth with objections to the method of delivery.

Let’s try the peace of Christ.

I profess the Truth. I don’t distort it. I had to say I have my bad days and good days. Lately, I have my good days. I don’t see any of my post lately as being uncharitable.

If any of you Non-Catholic Christians, want to accuse me of such, by all means, point them out. High them by bolding my words. You can even color them out.

As a Catholic, I know Catholicism better than Non-Catholic Christians, especially Ex-Catholics. For those Ex-Catholics, I am sorry you never ask the Holy Spirit, or Jesus himself assistance to help you understand Catholic doctrine and faith.

I wonder how many times during your times as a Catholic, you spend time before the Blessed Sacrament. Did you ever offer almsgiving, spend time with Jesus in the Tabernacle?

For those in RCIA and are coming into the Catholic Church, pray, pray, pray for your discernment. If you cannot grasp Catholic teaching, you will fall. Jesus lead a prayful life. Before he did anything he always pray. So you must pray. Pray daily.

Doubt my friend is a sin when you allow it to distract you. It is the sin against the first commandment. When I have doubts about my faith, I talk to the priest about it. Many times, they will ask you to pray about it. Ask the Holy Spirit about your troubles. Not only pray but mediate upon it. Jesus did say, that the Holy Spirit will lead us to all truths.

There is only one Truth. Jesus Christ who is the Way the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, my brethrens do not carry any strange doctrine, St. Paul once said.

God is immutable. He cannot change. I don’t see how Protestantism itself proclaim it to be truthful. They claim the Holy Spirit told them that baptism is necessary, while the other Protestant Denom say it isn’t. Doesn’t this sound like the Spirit of Contradiction?

I only know one spirit of contradiction. He is the Father of Lies. The murderer from the very beginning. The Catholic Church does teaches and requires her faithful to believe everything that the Holy Mother the Church teaches. All doctrine has its origin in Christ. He is after all, the Word of God, Word made flesh. He isn’t a mute word. He is Living Word, incarnate. He has a name, Jesus Christ.

I know for assurance that the Catholic Church is 100% fullness of Truth. Eastern Orthodox is 90% fullness of Truth, once they accept the Pope as the Successor of St. Peter and the universal shepard, they will be one Church just as Jesus Christ prayed for. Protestantism is fracturing. During the Reformation they were 50% Truth, now its 25% or less truth. They just keep on splitting based on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, a belief that each Christian is his sole interpreter of Scripture. Where is the unity in Protestantism? There isn’t none.

I know some of you NCC may find this very difficult to grasp, but I speak only the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing the Truth. In the End I like to quote the Catholicism concerning what Christianity is.

108 Still, the **Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” **Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living”. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.”

 

[swariffin]

Dear Mannyfit,

It is good for you to have all days being good. Bravo, I like your post. It is just like reading the apostle creed.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Must I seriously point those out?? You must either be joking or in complete agreement that being slanderous and rude to Protestants is an acceptible practice here.

Well, when you accuse me of spreading lies and propoganda, and then you call Manny uncharitable, and then you accuse the Catholic Church of being Pagan and bent on destroying the truth… it would be nice if you would answer the question with an answer rather than an attack.

You have changed quite a bit since you came to this Forum. You have turned from being a listener and debator to hateful attacks and accusation. What has happened?

 

[mgrfin]

Sure, and Peter was Bishop of Newark.

Right! Bishop Peter Gerety of Newark. He is the oldest living bishop in the U.S.

peace (and lighten up guys)

 

[po18guy]

I profess the Truth. I don’t distort it. I had to say I have my bad days and good days. Lately, I have my good days. I don’t see any of my post lately as being uncharitable.

If any of you Non-Catholic Christians, want to accuse me of such, by all means, point them out. High them by bolding my words. You can even color them out.

As a Catholic, I know Catholicism better than Non-Catholic Christians, especially Ex-Catholics. For those Ex-Catholics, I am sorry you never ask the Holy Spirit, or Jesus himself assistance to help you understand Catholic doctrine and faith.

I wonder how many times during your times as a Catholic, you spend time before the Blessed Sacrament. Did you ever offer almsgiving, spend time with Jesus in the Tabernacle?

For those in RCIA and are coming into the Catholic Church, pray, pray, pray for your discernment. If you cannot grasp Catholic teaching, you will fall. Jesus lead a prayful life. Before he did anything he always pray. So you must pray. Pray daily.

Doubt my friend is a sin when you allow it to distract you. It is the sin against the first commandment. When I have doubts about my faith, I talk to the priest about it. Many times, they will ask you to pray about it. Ask the Holy Spirit about your troubles. Not only pray but mediate upon it. Jesus did say, that the Holy Spirit will lead us to all truths.

There is only one Truth. Jesus Christ who is the Way the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, my brethrens do not carry any strange doctrine, St. Paul once said.

God is immutable. He cannot change. I don’t see how Protestantism itself proclaim it to be truthful. They claim the Holy Spirit told them that baptism is necessary, while the other Protestant Denom say it isn’t. Doesn’t this sound like the Spirit of Contradiction?

I only know one spirit of contradiction. He is the Father of Lies. The murderer from the very beginning. The Catholic Church does teaches and requires her faithful to believe everything that the Holy Mother the Church teaches. All doctrine has its origin in Christ. He is after all, the Word of God, Word made flesh. He isn’t a mute word. He is Living Word, incarnate. He has a name, Jesus Christ.

I know for assurance that the Catholic Church is 100% fullness of Truth. Eastern Orthodox is 90% fullness of Truth, once they accept the Pope as the Successor of St. Peter and the universal shepard, they will be one Church just as Jesus Christ prayed for. Protestantism is fracturing. During the Reformation they were 50% Truth, now its 25% or less truth. They just keep on splitting based on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, a belief that each Christian is his sole interpreter of Scripture. Where is the unity in Protestantism? There isn’t none.

I know some of you NCC may find this very difficult to grasp, but I speak only the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing the Truth. In the End I like to quote the Catholicism concerning what Christianity is.

108 Still, the **Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” **Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living”. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.”

AMEN, MANNY! Suppose there was One True Church. Just who would hate it with an everlasting hatred, working patiently throughout the centuries to chip away at it, shattering Christ’s Body into (30,000+) pieces, causing Christian to rebel against Christian, introducing doctrines that appeal to individuality, diluting her truth with lies, fostering dissent from within, luring some of her servants into evil, and slowly attempting to substitute freedom (license) for obedience? He has a name. You can read about him in Job 1:6-12 and we live in his kingdom, surrounded by evidence of his works and desires.

His evil influence has even turned some posters from their former likeable persona inot something resembling Madmax. I make the sign of the cross to keep the evil one away from our brothers in Christ.

 

[Deconi]

Hi CB,

First, God can and does work through anyone. Hindu, Jew, Buddhist or Protestant, we are all God’s children.

God works through our imperfections. All people are prone to error, misjudgements and sin. God has not abandoned anyone who does not profess Catholicism. Nor does he walk away because we are sinful.

All graces needed for salvation flow through the Catholic Church. They may flow to others not presently members of the Church. This is not an arrogant statement, it is the truth. Jesus Christ started one Church to carry his plan for mankind’s salvation.

We’re not comparing country clubs here. This is about God’s plan for redemption. Not yours, mine or any other denomination.

That is why, as frightful as the priest scandal was, I could not ever consider leaving the faith. Though people within the Church may fall, the Church Herself is perfect as she is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Remember, the Church is not a hotel for saints, it is a hospital for sinners.

Is that you, Mum?

That’s almost word for word what “you” taught me.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Dear Mannyfit,

It is good for you to have all days being good. Bravo, I like your post. It is just like reading the apostle creed.

Thanks though, I am but a humble servant of the Lord. My post is like reading the apostles creed. woah. No way… dude…

 

[BrewMax]

As a Catholic, I know Catholicism better than Non-Catholic Christians, especially Ex-Catholics. For those Ex-Catholics, I am sorry you never ask the Holy Spirit, or Jesus himself assistance to help you understand Catholic doctrine and faith. Oh please. What are you talking about??

I wonder how many times during your times as a Catholic, you spend time before the Blessed Sacrament. Did you ever offer almsgiving, spend time with Jesus in the Tabernacle? Probably more han you would ever personally experience my prejudice friend.

There is only one Truth. Jesus Christ who is the Way the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, my brethrens do not carry any strange doctrine, St. Paul once said.
Oh really?? You seem to profess more than merely Jesus being THE way. This is one of the main reasons why I left.

"

 

[mgrfin]

BrewMax:
I don’t understand why ex-Catholics come to this site.

We are not here as Catholics to enter into polemics with Protestant apologists, but to share information for those who are seeking it.

Are ex-Catholics so insecure, they must come here to justify their actions. I don’t know. There are probably lots of reasons.

Im not comfortable arguing with Protestants. Catholics are at a bit of a disadvantage in discussing matters with a fallen-away Catholics.

We keep trying, however…and praying.

peace