My #1 reason for not converting...

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t understand why ex-Catholics come to this site.

We are not here as Catholics to enter into polemics with Protestant apologists, but to share information for those who are seeking it.

Are ex-Catholics so insecure, they must come here to justify their actions. I don’t know. There are probably lots of reasons.

Of not comfortable arguing with Protestants. Catholics are at a bit of a disadvantage in discussing matters with a fallen-away Catholics.

We keep trying, however…and praying.

peace

It’s odd though, there are a lot of Ex-Protestants turn Catholics here. We also have ex-fallen away Catholic (to include myself; I have fallen away by not practicing my faith for 4 yrs). Some background on me, I am a cradle Catholic, raised up but was never properly catechized. I had to learn my own way through official Church writings not from blogs or essay or book written by Ex-Catholics, Ex-priests, or whatever. I think many of these Ex-Catholics still have no clue what Catholicism actually teaches, or that they just couldn’t agree with her teachings.

It didn’t fit their way of life so instead of adhering to Bride of Christ’s, the Church, they left and join some other Christian Church which has no connection to the Apostles at all. If they have to break from the CC, I would prefer them to be Orthodox than Protestants.

Why? Because Protestants lack Apostolic Succession and most of them do not have valid sacraments or no sacraments at all. If I had my way. I would prefer that there be two versions of Christianity, Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox.

Not Protestantism, a man-made tradition founded on a rebellious Augustinian monk, Martin Luther, and the other legion of doom, John Calvin and other Reformers.

I dislike Protestantism approach to theology because it’s practices are un-Biblical and not in consistent with the ECF. I prefer if they never exist at all.

We also have former Catholics turn Protestants then reverted back to Catholicism.

I don’t see any disadvantage here at all. I believe we Catholics have an advantage.

 

[peary]

We also have ex-fallen away Catholic (to include myself; I have fallen away by not practicing my faith for 4 yrs).

You make it sound like you wear it as a badge of honor.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You make it sound like you wear it as a badge of honor.

Any Catholic who falls into sin is a fallen away Catholic. God’s calls him to come back like the lost sheep. Conversion is not a one day thing. It is everyday process.

 

[lak611]

You make it sound like you wear it as a badge of honor.

He’s not ex-Catholic any more. He has returned to the Church.

 

[BrewMax]

Well, when you accuse me of spreading lies and propoganda, and then you call Manny uncharitable, and then you accuse the Catholic Church of being Pagan and bent on destroying the truth… it would be nice if you would answer the question with an answer rather than an attack.

You have changed quite a bit since you came to this Forum. You have turned from being a listener and debator to hateful attacks and accusation. What has happened?

It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.

 

[Teflon93]

It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. ** It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either**.

I can attest to you being completely wrong on this. Whenever I post something which may be considered uncharitable, I get PMed by my Catholic brothers and sisters (when they don’t directly correct me in the thread itself) and called to charity.

The mods also prune threads which are uncharitable, as anyone who’s hung around here a little while can see.

It is you who are being uncharitable in claiming otherwise. I will charitably assume your typing outsped your facts.

 

[rr1213]

It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.

I hate to admit it but the Catholic on-line forums I visit have a better record on maintaining charity than the Protestant forums. That’s not to say that there is never any problem, but it usually gets addressed appropriately. Just stay out of the “Traditional Catholic” forum.

 

[Mannyfit75]

It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.

We don’t have problems with individual Protestants. We Catholics have a problem in the flawed theology of Protestantism. As a Protestants you believe the Catholic Church is completely erroneous and departed from the Truth.

As for me as Catholic, I believe the Holy Mother Church, the Catholic Church, the Bride of Christ, and the Mystical Body of Christ contains the Fullness of Truth and Faith.

Protestantism doesn’t. It’s truth is fractured into 33,000 different denomination. The mere fact of these 33,000 denominations shows the flawd theology it has as it approached Scripture on the grounds on Faith Alone and interpreting Scripture.

 

[MariaG]

It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.

We don’t have problems with individual Protestants. We Catholics have a problem in the flawed theology of Protestantism. As a Protestants you believe the Catholic Church is completely erroneous and departed from the Truth.

As for me as Catholic, I believe the Holy Mother Church, the Catholic Church, the Bride of Christ, and the Mystical Body of Christ contains the Fullness of Truth and Faith.

Protestantism doesn’t. It’s truth is fractured into 33,000 different denomination. The mere fact of these 33,000 denominations shows the flawd theology it has as it approached Scripture on the grounds on Faith Alone and interpreting Scripture.

And unfortunately, this truth, that we state without equivocation, can be misconstrued as a personal attack.

There is just no nice way to tell people that they are following those who scripture warns us will come along teaching falsely.

 

[BrewMax]

And unfortunately, this truth, that we state without equivocation, can be misconstrued as a personal attack.

There is just no nice way to tell people that they are following those who scripture warns us will come along teaching falsely.

This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody. When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen. This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God; it is a blatant double standard.

So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement, but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens.

 

[Teflon93]

This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody. When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen. This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God; it is a blatant double standard.

So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement,** but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens**.

Since it has happened “countless times”, why not post some links, that we all may be enlightened?

Ought to be easy to find using the Forum search feature.

I can assure you that what will happen should any Protestant deign to call me a heretic is that I will laugh and then ask them the timeless question, “By What Authority?”

Which, I suspect, is why few do.

 

[Delraek]

get a grip. luther said “sola gratia, sola fide”. yes, every protestant i know agrees with that.

Hi bengal_fan,

This quote surprised me because I’ve always heard that Luther said “sola scriptura, sola fide”. Are you 100% sure he said “sola gratia”? (I might have to research that one… unless you can provide a source?)

God bless,

 

[BrewMax]

Since it has happened “countless times”, why not post some links, that we all may be enlightened?

Ought to be easy to find using the Forum search feature.

I can assure you that what will happen should any Protestant deign to call me a heretic is that I will laugh and then ask them the timeless question, “By What Authority?”

Which, I suspect, is why few do.

I won’t waste my time posting them although there are several. I dn not wish to needlessly argue with you over what is charitable and what is not. As far as your question of by what authority, I would respond to you that your church, your pope or your doctrines have no authority over me, but God has authority over both of us.

 

[peary]

He’s not ex-Catholic any more. He has returned to the Church.

Thank you for the clarification he didn’t give:blush:

 

[MariaG]

This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody.

This is a Catholic site. When over at someplace like CARM, they obviously have a different opinion. But as I said, it IS a Catholic site, it IS taught by the Catholic Church as the Truth and can be stated here as such. You may certainly disagree with it, but that doesn’t make it any less true. Truth is not found by who disagrees with it. Look how many walked away from Christ and the Real Presence and continue to do so today.

When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen. This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God; it is a blatant double standard.

Please post links. Challenging statements happens all the time here. I cannot remember one being called uncharitable for simply challenging a statement especially when documentation is provided.

There are times that people are uncharitable to each other, both Catholic and non. You will also see Catholics jump in, defend their separated brethren, PM them, and moderators jump in.

And respectfully, the teachings of the Catholic Church ARE Divine Revelation whether you choose to recognize this or not.

So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement, but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens

Post links to these constant belittling statements. You make many accusations but I have seen you post little to back up your statements and accusations against the Church. This statement should be easy to show the truth of. I, in fact, do not doubt that it happens. What I challenge is that it happens so many times. And if it does in fact so many times in the threads you participate in, I suggest you take a look at the language you are using if things like this are happening so many times.

I can say someone is overweight. I can also say someone is fat. Both are objectively true, but one can provoke a much stronger negative reaction than the other.

As for when Protestants use words like heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine, again, this is a Catholic forum. If you wish to say those things, go elsewhere. I personally have never called anyone a heretic.

 

[Teflon93]

I won’t waste my time posting them although there are several. I dn not wish to needlessly argue with you over what is charitable and what is not. As far as your question of by what authority, I would respond to you that your church, your pope or your doctrines have no authority over me, but God has authority over both of us.

Well, that about says it all.

Suffice it to say that anyone with honest concerns of charity tend to share examples—they illuminate. Others deploy it when arguments fail them. The difference is quite easy to discern.

If you think that calls to charity are needless or a waste of time, I encourage you to think again, and perhaps to do some more prayerful research on the matter.

As for our doctrines no having authority over you, may I presume you do not read the Bible nor profess the Nicene Creed?

 

[MariaG]

I won’t waste my time posting them although there are several. I dn not wish to needlessly argue with you over what is charitable and what is not. As far as your question of by what authority, I would respond to you that your church, your pope or your doctrines have no authority over me, but God has authority over both of us.

Whether or not you choose to acknowledge the authority of the Church over you does not change that God placed the Church in authority over you.

A person’s rejection of Christ doesn’t mean that Christ is not the way and the truth and the life. Just as a person’s rejection of the authority of the Catholic church over them doesn’t mean the Church was not placed there by God over them.

But just as Luther choose to reject that authority, you have the freewill to do so also.

 

[jmcrae]

This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody.

It is also God’s opinion, and nobody else’s opinion but His really counts, I don’t think. History and the Scriptures, when taken together and in their proper context, show us that the Catholic Church is the one that Christ founded upon Peter, (Mathew 16:18-19), and over which He made Peter the Chief Shepherd. (John 21:15-19) History shows us an unbroken line of Popes leading from Peter to Pope Benedict XVI. There is no controversy; the facts are plain.

When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times.

If the Protestant is trying to undermine the Catholic’s faith, he will be reprimanded, since this is a Catholic site, intended for explaining the Catholic faith - the title of it is “Catholic Answers”; not “Protestant Arguments.” So, yeah, if he is trying to debate or to contradict, then he will certainly get shut down.

But those who are sincerely trying to understand and learn the Catholic faith always receive charitable answers - they are given the truth, spoken in love.

 

[qui_est_ce]

This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody. When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen. This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God; it is a blatant double standard.

So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement, but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens.

So basically you are saying that if we take you up on debate, we are being uncharitable, but the following posts by you are not?

I won’t waste my time posting them although there are several. I dn not wish to needlessly argue with you over what is charitable and what is not. As far as your question of by what authority, I would respond to you that your church, your pope or your doctrines have no authority over me, but God has authority over both of us.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2903775#post2903775

The Catholic church has had only one aim from its earliest pagan and politial origins: To destroy the true Christians and to destroy their Bible. That is why they substituted the corrupt Alexandrian perversions of scripture instead of using the preserved prophetic and apostolic Words of God as found in Antioch of Syria where the disciples were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). That is why the Alexandrian writings called the apocrypha were added as well. I have tried to be cordial, but the truth must be told. enough is enough.

But they are ridiculous and propaganda. You just admitted it yourself and probably didn’ realize it (Maybe they were Episcopal). Not very well researched in my book.

I expected this from you. First of all, I have never been divorced. Secondly, I am converting to he Anglican church, not the Episcopal church. Her church is very seriously not Episcopalian. Your accusations of washing the Eucharist down tthe sewer is totally unfounded and ridiculous. Aagain, more Catholic propaganda and untrue rumors.

qui:

Brew, you yourself actively participated in this thread and saw the below post. Please be honest before you tell me I am spreading rumors and propoganda.

I hope you continue to come back to this forum. You were here for a reason. Perhaps you could start a thread and tell us of your experience.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…the+last+straw

well, as an Episcopalian, there were a LOT of straws!

The one that finally made me realize I needed to come into full communion with the Church was the widely varying understandings of “Real Presence” that are accepted within the doctrinal boundaries of Anglicanism.

The Episcopal Church and diocese I grew up in and attended until my Tiber swim was pretty conservative, doctrinally, and I never really had to personally deal with any of the serious heterodox problems that plague much of the rest of that denomination, which was a great blessing. However, one day, we (the Lay Eucharistic Ministers aka LEMs) were meeting in the Sacristy, when I noticed that the sink had been re-piped to have both sinks going to the septic system. Now, if you know something about Sacristies, they should have one sink or repository that goes into the ground, for sacramentals like Holy water to be disposed without putting them into a septic tank!

I was aghast that for an indeterminate amount of time, people had been pouring the consecrated blood of Christ into a septic tank! When I expressed this, all of the layfolk there were pretty much like “so?”. I think the deacon (a female former Lutheran) was the only one who was equally upset about it.

That pushed me to really look deeper into why Anglicanism permitted such a wide and contradictory variety of beliefs. I understand some things in theology must be “held in tension”, but c’mon! Anyway, it got to the point that I realized that I was now outside of communion not only with Pope Benedict, whom I greatly respected as an Anglican, but the great Anglican saints of old like Thomas Becket and Anselm of Canterbury.

Long, rambling story short? Doctrine of the Eucharist.

The Catholic Christian Church has nothing to hide. Her books are open. She does not need to resort to name calling or defensiveness.

 

[BrewMax]

As for when Protestants use words like heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine, again, this is a Catholic forum. If you wish to say those things, go elsewhere.

my point exactly.