That’s true. But given how many saints said nasty things about their enemies and favored the execution of heretics, I don’t see how you can condemn Luther and still be a Catholic. St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. John Chrysostom, St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, and St. Bernardine of Siena, and St. Thomas More would have to go for starters.
Jesus must not have been a Christian. He said some nasty things about some people, His enemies, didn’t He? Your father is the devil a murderer and liar from the begining. You do the works of your father. You want to kill me. You blind guides. You hypocrits, you wash the outside of the cup, you whited sepluchres full of dead men’s bones. You are going to die in your sins (go to hell). We think today heresy is a good thing rather than fear the dreadful detstruction that it brings to souls and Christian civilization. The more versions of confusion the better. We welcome it and call it freedom. We call anarchy freedom. How can an Episcopalian call himself a Christian if he advocates the murder of unborn babies, or men marrying men, or makes a man who left his wife and and children for his male lover a bishop? This holocaust of 40 million dead babies and perversion is enlightened and just, but as long as we realize capital punishment is uncivilized and ungodly we are good Christians, better than not only the saints you mentioned, but all of them. Not one of them would be so enlightened as to extol the sin that cries to God for vengeance, or the slaughter of innocents. Yes, we should reject the saints and their miracles and the pope, and recognize a man as the head of our church who had seven wives, having disposed of most by early and violent means, and died of syphillus, whose illegitmate bastard daughter saw to the hanging, drawing and quartering of martyrs.
Where precisely are guitars in Mass used reverently? As noted several posts back (I presume you read it), “classical guitar” is a reverent style some of the time, folk and rock guitar never are. It was noted above that “Silent Night” was composed on guitar. There are no power chords in “Silent Night”.Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Whether it’s a guitar or an organ, it can be used reverently or irreverently. Your comment regarding a guitar riff is very sarcastic and not even accurate. I specifically told you that the music played at the Mass I go to is contemporary Christian, not “hard rock” nor “heavy metal”! I’m assuming you just don’t like it when people don’t agree with you.
If and until the Magisterium guided by the Holy Spirit agrees with you, I will defend my opinion. (I won’t be holding my breath.)
Just out of curiosity, please list which instruments in your opinion ARE acceptable.
There’s the small matter of 100,000 slaughtered German peasants on Luther’s head.
Henry VIII was an awful, awful man. The Anglican and Episcopalian of course must deal with the fact that their founder was such a wicked man.
But I don’t think you can say that this shift in attitude,this difference, is due to the changes in Mass. It may be that it is harder for me to see your point on this since my personal experience is very different than yours. I don’t see a party after Mass. I still see people praying, lighting candles, and others quietly leaving to allow them to do so.
Well, then, why do they have this loud, profane, rock music to accompany today’s Catholic liturgy?
My experience is much more like what you describe than that of other posters. This is true whether I have attended Mass in WA, WI, CA, TX, or NC. I read an interesting statement by a non-Catholic. We, as Catholics, have a tendency to blame Vatican II for laxity and other changes. Non-Catholics do not have a “Vatican II” to blame. What is often overlooked is Vatican II recognized the changes that were already taking places in society. The Magisterium who participated in this Council took steps to address these changes. Reading the actual documents which are available to everybody shows a reality of what occurred rather than the misperceptions that many have. I find it interesting, for instance, that non-Catholic churches will advertise contemporary and traditional services. Many of the converts that I know point to the Eucharist and reverence shown by Catholics as their number 1 reason for converting. These conversions took place after Vatican II. Those whom my parents sponsored became Catholic, not because of the worship but because they saw how my family lived.
**GOOD QUESTION!
**Are there parishes where loud, profane rock music is played during Mass?**GOOD QUESTION!
Parishes in the African-American communities are into praise bands as well as gospel during celebration of Mass. It’s unique to their tradition and…it’s way cool!
Well, don’t get me started on the “Strip Mall Cathedral” style of architecture… there’s a good thread to be had sharing pictures of the worst offenders there.
I lilke praise and worship music, like by Michael W. Smith, but not for mass.
It has been my experience as well that one of the main reasons converts are first attracted to the CC is the reverence we Catholics show in our worship.
Having participated in a nearby African-American Catholic church singfest, I must confess, I walked out with a head-ache and ears ringing. It was too loud and too much activity.
Do you remember when John Paul II would celebrate Mass throughout the world in different cultures? Some of what I saw on the TV made my mouth drop as far as the music, liturgical dancing and other things that went on. It is amazing that he allowed it, but it was obvious he was enjoying the communal aspect of the people who had come together for worship.
I must admit that I find praise and worship music wanting as music and for its intended purpose. Most of it just isn’t very good, in my personal opinion.
Yes, I remember it now. It was so wonderful that JP II celebrated this way.
Thanks Tef for putting it all in a nutshell. I still think we should have the draft if for no other reason, that to mix the haves with the I should haves and the truly have nots.
A young woman I know, 25 years old, and a devout Catholic went last nght to her first Traditional Mass. She had no experience with it at all in her entire life. The reason she went was a college music class requirment to write a report on any musical performance. She normally attends a local novice ordo Mass where there is a very good priest and she has no complaints there. She learned that this Mass would take place 100 miles from her home and that there would be a choir singing ancient hymns, so she drove there to fulfill her Mass and course requirement. Her mother asked her later last night how she liked it. She said she was unprepared for what happened. She said she was completely overwhelmed, spiritually and emotionally, and cried through the entire Mass, because it was so beautiful.
At the Mass I just came back from…
