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mini_me640
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It sounds like a great way to make a child dread going to Mass to me. I’m not saying it doesn’t “work”, but just because something gets a desired result doesn’t make it ok in my opinion.
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cemiller
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Why would it make them dread going to Mass? I don’t really understand that. Spanking or disiplining a child does’t make a child dread going anywhere or doing anything else… It’s simply correcting a bad habit or behavior before it gets out of hand. You explain to the child why they are getting a “pop” or a time-out or whatever preferred method is and they relate it to that behavior. I used pop my daughter’s hand when she would hurt the cat, never stopped her from wanting to play with the cat, just stopped her from trying to rip all the fir and skin from the cats face… I put her in time-out for throwing toys; it doesn’t make her stop wanting to play with them. I put her in the cart when she tries running off in a store; it doesn’t stop her from wanting to walk in stores. I don’t understand why it would be any different with Mass then it is with anything else…
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Serap
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SPANKING THREAD HIJACK!!!
outta here guys…not my debate…
outta here guys…not my debate…
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FatherOfTwelve
Guest
I guess if you did it over and over and over, Yes I would agree with you. I would not want to go to Mass.
I would also dread going to Mass if my kid constantly, over and over and over kept misbehaving (the other parishors too).
So the question is, Who suffers the behavior and for how long? Especiaclly when it can be rectified.
As I said in the earlier post, “What you tolerate is what you encourage” (Not my quote) I’ve coached youth football in my day and that is what I tell my assistant coaches. If you let the boys practice sloppy, block sloppy, etc. that is what your gonna get! Sloppy play. So we BEAR CRAWL the heck out of them until they do it RIGHT.
Same goes for just about anything, we have to remember as parents, when you punish your kids you are NOT do something TO them. You are doing something FOR them. You correct the bad by putting them through something worse, they will not want that to continue. They will learn it’s much better to just behave. A 3-4 year old can behave in Mass. Don’t let them train you, you train them.
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cemiller
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I was actually talking about disipline in general… Spanking is just another form. I don’t see why disiplining a child would make them dread going to mass…
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TheRealJuliane
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and that child could be next bishop, or priest… ** just go with the flow and don 't force children or teens to do anything they don’t want to do.** please dont make them go to church. they only stop going the minute they can so why prolong it. what right do adults have to enforce anything especially onto teens. Let them be.If they don’t want to go this week, don’t make them. why do they need to go just to keep you happy?
Yeah, let them quit school and lay around playing video games all day…smoking pot…running the streets… I mean why impose our values on our children just because they are half-grown punks?
I assume your post was ironic because if it wasn’t, I feel so sorry for you. Good luck with your teens.
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FatherOfTwelve
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Yeah, let them quit school and lay around playing video games all day…smoking pot…running the streets… I mean why impose our values on our children just because they are half-grown punks?
I assume your post was ironic because if it wasn’t, I feel so sorry for you. Good luck with your teens.
@ TheRealJulianeand that child could be next bishop, or priest… just go with the flow and don 't force children or teens to do anything they don’t want to do. please dont make them go to church. they only stop going the minute they can so why prolong it. what right do adults have to enforce anything especially onto teens. Let them be.
I agree this “rhiannonh” post (I hate calling people stupid, cause I ain’t to sharp either) is the “ignorantist” post I’ve seen here in a long time! You had a great response:thumbsup:
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mini_me640
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If you were paying attention to my post, you would know I was responding to a post that suggested spanking a child before Mass, not for a specific behavior, but just to remind them to behave. That’s what I said would make a child dread going to Mass.
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mini_me640
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OP,
Every child is different and age plays a role as well. Some 2 year olds are capable of sitting through Mass relatively peacefully, and others aren’t. They all have different attention spans, energy levels, and disposition. For the more “excitable” ones, I find it tends to just take time. DS was (and really still is) a wild and crazy guy
and he used to be impossible to take to Mass. He is almost 3, and at the last Mass we attended, it was like a light switch was flipped and he was able to make it with minimal disruption. I didn’t do anything special, he had just reached a stage where he could manage to flip through his Noah’s ark book and his Holy Cards and try to sing along and not wreak havoc. My 14 month DD on the other hand - yeah… not so much… but I’m sure she will reach a point where she can focus enough and make it through Mass too. Don’t be hard on yourself or your child, she will reach an age where she can understand and focus more and will be able to attend Mass (relatively) peacefully! I understand that some children are able to do this at an earlier age than others, but I believe that has more to do with their disposition than anything else.
Every child is different and age plays a role as well. Some 2 year olds are capable of sitting through Mass relatively peacefully, and others aren’t. They all have different attention spans, energy levels, and disposition. For the more “excitable” ones, I find it tends to just take time. DS was (and really still is) a wild and crazy guy
and he used to be impossible to take to Mass. He is almost 3, and at the last Mass we attended, it was like a light switch was flipped and he was able to make it with minimal disruption. I didn’t do anything special, he had just reached a stage where he could manage to flip through his Noah’s ark book and his Holy Cards and try to sing along and not wreak havoc. My 14 month DD on the other hand - yeah… not so much… but I’m sure she will reach a point where she can focus enough and make it through Mass too. Don’t be hard on yourself or your child, she will reach an age where she can understand and focus more and will be able to attend Mass (relatively) peacefully! I understand that some children are able to do this at an earlier age than others, but I believe that has more to do with their disposition than anything else.
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EasterJoy
Guest
If this was the only time in the week the child was expected to be quiet while the world failed to revolve around him or her, that would be true. The kid would hate Mass, because Mass would be the only place he or she faced bad consequences for failing to exercise the level of self-control required, a level that he or she did not understand and had no experience (let alone success) in even trying.
It is not fair to a child to let a child run around, throw food, or make a mess of herself during meals at home and then punish her when she fails to behave properly at a restaurant. Rather, you train the child how to behave at the table at home, and when she has reached a certain level of self-control, you take her with you to enjoy restaurants appropriate to her level.
Likewise, it is not fair to use Sunday Mass as the first and only place a child is expected to exhibit the behaviors we would call “behaving at Mass.” Rather, you train a child using methods you are fully ready to use either in public or private, in front of any company, and then you apply those methods in the way the child expects everywhere. If you do this, the child will feel secure and self-confident in the knowledge that he or she knows what outcome will follow his or her choices, even in new circumstances. She will be free to grow to learn and love the Mass, too, because it will be outstanding in what it offers, rather than being unique to her mainly in the extra boundaries it imposes.
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FatherOfTwelve
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Like:thumbsup:
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ejlo1
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Ok, I haven’t read all the prior posts but we just found the key to get our 2.5 yr old son to be quiet during Mass so I thought I share.
I starting bringing some half sheets of paper and a pen for him to color with and while it doesn’t work for the whole Mass, it works for about 50% of the Mass. He still moves around a lot, but at least he is not making much noise. I tried books, and quiet toys, but they never worked. I was afraid that he would color on the song books, but he seemed to understand when I told him they were not for coloring and he never made an attempt to color in them. For the other 50% of the Mass he is usually distracted by a sippy cup of water and a snack while sitting on my lap. We try to explain as much of the Mass to him as we can, but at 2.5 the only parts he really likes is the ringing of the bell during the consecration and when we get to “take a walk” for communion.
I starting bringing some half sheets of paper and a pen for him to color with and while it doesn’t work for the whole Mass, it works for about 50% of the Mass. He still moves around a lot, but at least he is not making much noise. I tried books, and quiet toys, but they never worked. I was afraid that he would color on the song books, but he seemed to understand when I told him they were not for coloring and he never made an attempt to color in them. For the other 50% of the Mass he is usually distracted by a sippy cup of water and a snack while sitting on my lap. We try to explain as much of the Mass to him as we can, but at 2.5 the only parts he really likes is the ringing of the bell during the consecration and when we get to “take a walk” for communion.
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mini_me640
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As I pointed out to another poster, I was not saying that expecting a child to behave would make them hate Mass, or even that disciplining the child would make them hate Mass. I was specifically responding to the suggestion of spanking a child before Mass, NOT for a specific misbehavior, but as a reminder to behave. This specifically is what I said could make a child dread Mass.
I agree that the child should be taught proper behavior at home before bringing them to Mass or anywhere that model behaviour is expected. However, there are few (I can’t really think of any) situations outside of Mass that one would expect a 2 year old to sit still and be quiet for a full hour (or sometimes more). I believe that some young children just need to mature more before you can expect them to sit still and quiet for that long anywhere, not just Mass.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I didn’t read that as spanking the child before Mass started, but rather letting them know that this was a no-nonsense situation. IOW, you let them know what behavior is expected at this particular activity. I don’t think that has to be a negative thing just because the activity is more solemn than the play ground, but the child does deserve a heads-up. There are times when a two year old can be expected to be quiet for an hour, but the amount of enforced quiet time in a day had better be limited!
I don’t know of anyone who expects a two year old to sit still at Mass with their hands in their lap. There are small kids who can be content at quiet occupations in a relatively confined space while adults carry on a conversation or watch a TV show that doesn’t interest them for an hour, who can sit at a restaurant without being the center of attention. Those are the kids who are going to have very little problem at Mass…and I mean provided that they are rested and otherwise physically up to focus. There are other kids who can be quiet for an hour if there is something interesting going on and they’re allowed to watch. Those kids can do fine at Mass, provided they deem the proceedings “interesting”. Even the “hell on wheels” kids sometimes fall into that category, so you never know until you try.
But yes, there are some kids who just can’t manage to be quiet for that long without actually being asleep.
The other thing is that kids go through phases, too. They can be really quiet and easygoing one year, and then go through a really irritable period, and then go on to another set of parameters. So it isn’t just a matter of knowing your child, but also of knowing your child this month or this week or even today. You can’t get too cranked up that your child is being “bad” just because an activity isn’t as automatically easy as it once was. Sometimes, you guess wrong, you do the best you can, and you figure that most people who’ve been around kids have been there at one time or another…and they’re glad that this time it is you and not them! .
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mini_me640
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Actually, in post # 60, Fatherof12 confirmed that he did in fact mean spanking the child before mass as a “warning shot”. He went on to say that it would not be appropriate for every child, and that it could possible cause the child to dread Mass if it were done all the time. So it really is what he meant. (Although, Fatherof12, if you are reading, even though I disagree with you on some things, you seem very fair-minded and are certainly a great dad! We can agree to disagree!
)At any rate, EasterJoy, I totally agree with you that kids and situations vary so widely, that you have to make expectations clear with children, and that they go through different phases that impact behavior and the ability to be still and quiet. I think as parents we just have to do the best we can at the various stages and places with our children and not beat ourselves up too much when our tots won’t be still!
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cemiller
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Sorry about that, I think I was reading your post and blending the intent with others…
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mini_me640
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No worries it happens easily on here! Too many ideas floating around at one time!
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rhiannonh
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then you don’t understand children (or people for that matter) and that is sad :crying:
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cemiller
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I don’t guess I do, and I guess my children are just outright abnormal… After all using disipline has never stopped them from wanting to do anything else, I’ll take them to the doc immediately for a mental exam. Thank you
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mini_me640
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Rhiannonh,
I’m curious if I’m misunderstanding you or if you actually believe a child should never be forced to go somewhere or do something the don’t want to and should not be disciplined?
I’m curious if I’m misunderstanding you or if you actually believe a child should never be forced to go somewhere or do something the don’t want to and should not be disciplined?
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