My Church has LGBTQ Vespers?

[phil19034]

Spyridon:

Who says not receiving Communion means you dont participate in Mass fully?

No one. But to the person who can’t it feel that way. Many converts and reverts have discussed this longing. In this case, all in the community can participate in Vespers.

I had to go without receiving communion for a long time, and never felt not part of the Church and rejoiced when I was able to receive communion again.

My mother goes to Mass every weekend (finally) but does not receive communion because she refuses to go to Confession (for some weird reason). But she doesn’t feel ostracized.

This is why I feel we should return to a 3 hour fast before communion, that why people who cannot or do no receive communion will not feel judged.

 

[phil19034]

There are prayer groups for various groups in the Church: just for single women, single men, couples, Charismatics, etc. It’s not about culture, it’s about community. If they can’t participate at Mass fully, because they aren’t in a state of grace and they aren’t there yet (didn’t a saint say, “give me chastity but not yet”?), this offers them community and to be a part of the liturgical life of the Church.

That was St. Augustine before he rejoined the Church and way before he became a priest and eventual Bishop.

Vespers isn’t a prayer group. That’s different. If they wanted to have a LBGTQ prayer group or outreach (like Courage) that would be fine. Dividing into groups for Vespers is not cool.

I would be equally upset about “Vespers for Men” or “Vespers for Grandparents.” Vespers is a public liturgy of the Church, not a small discipleship group.

God Bless.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I would be equally upset about “Vespers for Men” or “Vespers for Grandparents.”

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I had to go without receiving communion for a long time, and never felt not part of the Church and rejoiced when I was able to receive communion again.

That’s great. But I doubt you have been shunned by family, friends, been told you were going to hell just because you are ___________. Community is what LGBTQ folks do, it’s what keeps them from killing themselves and want to live to see another day. If there are LGBTQ Catholics who want community in their parish why discourage it? If they want Vespers why discourage it?

Vespers isn’t a prayer group.

I know that.

If they wanted to have a LBGTQ prayer group or outreach (like Courage) that would be fine. Dividing into groups for Vespers is not cool.

Why is it not cool? Could they have a LGBTQ Rosary? What can they have and what can’t they? I think the pastor gets to decide that, not you.

LIke so many things today:

Catholics: We should minister more to LGBTQ people.
LGBTQ folks: We want Vespers.
Catholics: Not that.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

I had to go without receiving communion for a long time, and never felt not part of the Church and rejoiced when I was able to receive communion again.

That’s great. But I doubt you have been shunned by family, friends, been told you were going to hell just because you are ___________. Community is what LGBTQ folks do, it’s what keeps them from killing themselves and want to live to see another day. If there are LGBTQ Catholics who want community in their parish why discourage it? If they want Vespers why discourage it?

Vespers isn’t a prayer group.

I know that.

If they wanted to have a LBGTQ prayer group or outreach (like Courage) that would be fine. Dividing into groups for Vespers is not cool.

Why is it not cool? Could they have a LGBTQ Rosary? What can they have and what can’t they? I think the pastor gets to decide that, not you.

LIke so many things today:

Catholics: We should minister more to LGBTQ people.
LGBTQ folks: We want Vespers.
Catholics: Not that.

I have no problem with LGBTQ support groups in the Church for those who wish to be chaste and follow the Church’s teachings (like Courage). I welcome it and 100% support it. I used to be a member of a heterosexual support group for men who struggled with chastity at Church (until the group went under). But we kept it confidential. We didn’t parade around saying “look at us, we struggle with Chasity” << but that’s a different subject.

If inside their prayer group, they prayed Vespers in the meeting room as part of their group, that would be fine. But if Vespers is the sole activity, then it should be parish wide.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Maybe it is. We don’t know.

ETA: This is one Sunday a month, mind.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But if they are using the nave, altar, etc; then Vespers should be open to the entire parish, not just a group.

I presumed it is open to all, particularly since there may well be friends and family of LGBTQ people who are straight themselves but want to pray for their loved one who is not.

I have a serious problem with any prayer service or Mass that is not open to the general public.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

In the 2 I attended, it was open to everyone. I went partly out of curiosity, partly because I know people struggling with SSA etc.

I repeat, there was no gay agenda going on at either one. Everyone was respectful.

I have no idea whether that is so elsewhere.

Blessings, Stephie

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I have no problem with LGBTQ support groups in the Church for those who wish to be chaste and follow the Church’s teachings (like Courage). I welcome it and 100% support it. I used to be a member of a heterosexual support group for men who struggled with chastity at Church (until the group went under). But we kept it confidential. We didn’t parade around saying “look at us, we struggle with Chasity” << but that’s a different subject.

Why they hyperbole? No one is parading around. They want confidentiality. This is one parish offering Vespers to the LGBTQ community; how many offer nothing? And maybe those attending are sick to death of what Courage offers.

I am happy that Vespers is offered to this community. While it will bless all of them perhaps it will bring in those who are outside the church, or have one foot in and one foot out. For me it was the romance, the mysterious things like statues, my grandma’s chaplets, the books with gilt pages that captured by imagination as a child and as an adult, a beautiful church, a reverent liturgy where I can feel Catholic, are threads I’ve hung onto when my faith was weak. And why you or anyone else wants to deprive anyone from something that might minister to them, even if it’s just one, I do not understand.

 

[phil19034]

And why you or anyone else wants to deprive anyone from something that might minister to them, even if it’s just one, I do not understand.

I do NOT want to deprive anyone from ministering to them. I’m totally for it. Maybe, I’m totally against the name, because I would be equally ticked off if we had “Italian Vespers in English.”

If Vespers is only part of the program, then it’s cool. If Vespers is the entire program, then it’s not cool to me because I would not be cool with any group getting a publicly advertised private Vespers service, while the rest of the Parish gets no Vespers service.

God bless

 

[Bruised_Reed]

And I’m totally cool with it. I’m pretty sure that no one who was not LGBTQ or LGBTQ-adjacent would not want to be there for there for parts of it. Unless they are nosey gossips.

 

[phil19034]

Read Goodbye Good Men, and you will understand why this concerns me.

http://amzn.to/2xMexFc
http://amzn.to/2io03Vt

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I read it when it first came out.

 

[TheLittleLady]

“Popes in Hell” would be an even better band name than “Gay Vespers” though.

“Popes In Hell” tonight, at Metropolis Arena in the final concert of the “Gay Vespers” tour.

Opening act is “The Liturgy Police”.

 

[TheLittleLady]

We don’t have “adultery vespers,” fornicator vespers," etc

You do realize that being gay is not a sin, right? Homosexuality is not a sin, to draw the parallel to “fornicator vespers” is just plain ole mean.

 

[josh987654321]

If it is intended as an outreach ministry, then yes, that is quite appropriate. Prayer benefits everyone, and the gay community is in great need of spiritual growth.

Fair enough, and I think your analogy was good, the problem is that for example, my uncle is openly practicing homosexuality with a partner and he said that he goes to a Catholic Mass on Fridays that does not hold this ‘prejudice’ and they give him communion.

I guess I’m just not as naïve as some people here are, the Church is in crisis and the heresies are numerous. I think God has allowed this corruption for the proving of the elect.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[josh987654321]

Who knows? The reason I’m fighting you on this is because assumptions can be false.

True, I think it would be best if the O.P. just asked them about it so posters are not making assumptions.

O.P. There are ways you could ask that would help better understand what their true intentions are.

Only after asking the Church why they are hosting this, can we determine what to do

I agree.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading

 

[josh987654321]

I’m wading into a mess but here it goes! Vespers are great. I feel it’s odd that the Church needs to specifically denote they’re LGBTQ vespers. I feel that when we over emphasize our differences we run the risk of self segregation. My concern is that anyone attending will be the target of much gossip. Anyone seen there will be assumed to be gay. Wouldn’t it be better to have a night where everyone particularly those who are single and celibate can come together? It’s better to have some anonymity. After all heterosexuals and homosexuals are called to chastity.

I agree.

God Bless You

 

[LoyalViews]

It’s not hard to entertain truth. It really isn’t. If the gay vespers are to pray for those who struggle with SSA, and for the should of our brethren who partake in “LGBTQRSTUVQXYZ” activity, for their conversion? Well, what a charism this is. To pray for sinners, to pray for those Catholic who have been blessed with such a cross, for Catholics who struggle every day with being in love with that which they know returns not a favour. This is a cross, not a compulsion. If these Vespers are prayed for those struggling souls, these faithful men and women neglected by the popular person, then an infinite of good will come.

But if the Vespers are an alternative for active sodomites who practise that and feel uncomfortable at Mass, then they ought to feel just as uncomfortable at Vespers. It is the Church’s public liturgical prayer.

The active homosexual might feel uncomfortable, though if he or she comes in earnest understanding and faith then they are to be welcomed and they ARE home.

The SINNER is HOME in the Church not because we accept their sin, no, because we are THEIR family and we are charged to LOVE them like parents and reflect the love of God. We are to love our neighbour as ourself so why will we stand by and pray for their continuance in sin through prayer? Why are we to stand aside and act as if their world cannot be impacted by the faith of God’s only Church. Why do we accept the active fault of mankind?

As Catholics we are to bear witness to the truth. Any parish offering Vespers for the LGBT cause is to be avoided. Any parish which offers Vespers for the LGBT people, who earnestly seek the faith and truth, is to be applauded because the results will be God glorifying for He himself knows His children and their hearts.

However: it is hard to accept truth. To realise truth. @R_H_Benson is on the right tract here. Even from traditionalists there is no cold shoulder towards those who are gay, who struggle with labels and with the nature of their sexuality. As children of God, as members of His Church, we are obligated to show them the way, the truth, the life. We are to bring them to our Blessed Mother.

If the LGBTQ Vespers excludes all that; avoid.

 

[josh987654321]

Any parish offering Vespers for the LGBT cause is to be avoided. Any parish which offers Vespers for the LGBT people, who earnestly seek the faith and truth, is to be applauded because the results will be God glorifying for He himself knows His children and their hearts.

Amen!

God Bless You