My Church has LGBTQ Vespers?

[Spyridon]

You dont know there are heretical Catholic priests?

Being a Catholic priest does not preclude one from being a heretic, it doesn’t even preclude one from being an evil person destined for hell.

You do realize there are souls in hell right now, who in their lifetime were Priests, Bishops, even Popes.

Yes, I said it.

I am very confident saying there are Popes in hell right now. Just sit with that for a few minutes, then ask your question again.

 

[Spyridon]

If by policing you mean refute errant practices, yes.

I would police any Catholic function where I felt heresy or evil was being taught.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’m also confident that there are more priests and religious in hell than there are gays.

 

[phil19034]

It’s because it’s gay vespers.

Do you guys police other ministries like you do this one? You probably should because I could tell you stories about the unfortunate messages I got when I was involved with youth ministry. I think some married couples could tell you about things they “learned” in pre-Cana classes.

I’m sorry, “gay vespers” is horrible. Vespers is part of the liturgy where we should be focused on God, not attachment to sexual sin.

We don’t have “adultery vespers,” fornicator vespers," etc. And if you say “oh, it’s about culture” – we don’t have “African American vespers,” “Italian American vespers” etc.

We simply have vespers in a language and all pray it together, as a parish community. Singling out one group (regardless of who it is) is 100% wrong.

If I was the OP, I would send an anonymous letter to the priest (if you are still afraid of the priest) and then a signed letter to the Bishop if nothing changes.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Of course you are correct that some clergy teach error and sadly go to hell. But are you telling me you know for certain that any event for people who experience inclinations and disorders relating to the LGBTQ community, are heretical and should be condemned?

Are you telling me hosting Vespers events for these people, who need to understand the Church better, are always to be regarded as suspicious and scandalous? Can you tell me that?

 

[phil19034]

Are you telling me hosting Vespers events for these people, who need to understand the Church better, are always to be regarded as suspicious and scandalous? Can you tell me that?

Vespers is not something that should be used to single out any subsection of society. As a person of Italian and Spanish heritage, I would be deeply offended it my parish had a “Hispanic Culture vespers” or “Italian culture vespers.”

Vespers should be focused on God and what we all share in common, not our Earthly differences.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t disagree with your conclusion (we just had the “bad popes” thread a while ago).

“Popes in Hell” would be an even better band name than “Gay Vespers” though.

 

[Spyridon]

You’re a Deacon in the Church of God and you think refuting errant practices is bad?

You should be ashamed.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Vespers is not something that should be used to single out any subsection of society.

Fair point. But then why are they hosting it? Surely there is a reason. We do not know the reason and so what are we supposed to say?

 

[Spyridon]

If they do the same thing for every other sin then I’ll board the bandwagon.

Where are the Vespers for heroin addicts?

Where are the Matins for murderers?

What about Sext for sex addicts?

How about Lauds for adulterers?

Why does a Vespers Liturgy have to be transformed into a soapbox for LGBTQ people? Why can’t they attend a normal vespers?

Why does everything have to revolve around their disordered passions?

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

Vespers is not something that should be used to single out any subsection of society.

Fair point. But then why are they hosting it? Surely there is a reason. We do not know the reason and so what are we supposed to say?

True, we don’t know. But we do know that some seminaries have a homosexual make up of 40%. So my assumption would be this is a priest who has gay pride, or was indoctrinated into gay advocacy by homosexual formation professors or classmates.

 

[Spyridon]

I didn’t mean policing as in going in there with 6 guys and dragging everybody out in cuffs (though that’s a pretty hilarious mental image).

I meant policing as in refuting doctrinally heretical views.

 

[theCardinalbird]

If they do the same thing for every other sin then I’ll board the bandwagon.

Where are the Vespers for heroin addicts?

Where are the Matins for murderers?

What about Sext for sex addicts?

How about Lauds for adulterers?

Why does a Vespers Liturgy have to be transformed into a soapbox for LGBTQ people? Why can’t they attend a normal vespers?

Why does everything have to revolve around their disordered passions?

Who knows? The reason I’m fighting you on this is because assumptions can be false. And following assumptions that have no clear evidence to be proven is not something I’d do.
You keep asking me questions that I obviously don’t know the answer too. Why not ask the Church why they are hosting this? Isn’t that the logical thing to do?

Only after asking the Church why they are hosting this, can we determine what to do

 

[Spyridon]

I don’t know, I think I’m a lunatic.

Disregard my mad ravings.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

There are prayer groups for various groups in the Church: just for single women, single men, couples, Charismatics, etc. It’s not about culture, it’s about community. If they can’t participate at Mass fully, because they aren’t in a state of grace and they aren’t there yet (didn’t a saint say, “give me chastity but not yet”?), this offers them community and to be a part of the liturgical life of the Church.

 

[Rau]

I’m sorry, “gay vespers” is horrible. Vespers is part of the liturgy where we should be focused on God, not attachment to sexual sin.

The expression is odd perhaps, but the idea is not. We have mass for the sick, not sick Mass.

 

[Rau]

So my assumption would be this is a priest who has gay pride, or was indoctrinated into gay advocacy by homosexual formation professors or classmates.

Or a priest running an outreach ministry? Why assume one explanation rather than the other? Perhaps the OP will report back with facts in due course.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m not sure how simply adding the word LGBTQ to a prayer service furthers an agenda.

Catholic churches have indeed in the past had services or Masses for specific groups. For example, Mass in Polish, or prayer service for first responders, or Red Mass for lawyers, or prayer service for persons struggling with addictions or homelessness. All of these things are generally open to whoever wants to show up, but it’s understood there will be Polish people, or lawyers, or recovering addicts, etc there.

How is an LGBTQ Vespers any different? If you get there and there’s a deacon giving a talk before the prayers on how we should all support gay marriage, then I can see the discomfort. If it is simply a prayer group open to all but with a focus on one group that needs to pray and receive prayers right now, how is this any different from a service for homeless people?

 

[Spyridon]

Who says not receiving Communion means you dont participate in Mass fully?

I’ve been to more Masses where I don’t receive than those where I do - I am scrupulous about only receiving Christ if I’m 100% sure I’m in the state of Grace.

I never felt like I was only “half participating” in Mass.

Honestly, the Masses where i dont receive I feel are more spiritually beneficial in a way. They teach me reverence, respect, patience, and longing for Our Lord.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Who says not receiving Communion means you dont participate in Mass fully?

No one. But to the person who can’t it feel that way. Many converts and reverts have discussed this longing. In this case, all in the community can participate in Vespers.