My Mother

[MikeinSD]

I have similar problems with my dad who I will (unhappily) be seeing over the holidays. He’s lonely, doesn’ understand why family sleeps past 5am, and uses the religion club whenever possible. I stay with friends or in a hotel and keep the phone unplugged when I visit. The “possum” response usually works in family situations. Boring responses doesn’t get him excited after awhile. When he gets racial or severly Catholic, I just leave. Not pleasant but what can I do?

 

[bapcathluth]

BLB_Oregon:

If your mother came back and verbally abused all present… would you really have her back?

To honor your parents does not mean that you are obliged to accept whatever treatment they see fit to hand out to you. To give another person the respect and gratitude that is due to them does not mean you must mutely accept it when they give respect to neither you nor other people present in your home. In other words, it is not the perogative of parents to abuse their position of respect.

I.

My mother wasn’t a saint. She drank too much and she could say some nasty stuff when she was drinking, but she was also warm and loving. I miss talking to her about family history, recipes, and my kids. Yes, I would want her back no matter what. Only she remembers my childhood.

There are two sides to every story. What is this mother saying? Many of my friends complain about their mothers, and I used to complain about mine, but when you lose your mother you realize all of the good things that are gone as well.

I think that honoring your father and mother doesn’t mean taking abuse, but having an argument or criticizing you doesn’t equal abuse.

As far as the stripper goes, I think we should still associate with that mother. Didn’t Jesus have pity on the prostitute? She is still your mother.

The reason that commandment is there is because sometimes it isn’t easy to honor a parent. I hope my children will honor me–even when they disagree with me.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

bapcathluth:

I think that honoring your father and mother doesn’t mean taking abuse, but having an argument or criticizing you doesn’t equal abuse.

As far as the stripper goes, I think we should still associate with that mother. Didn’t Jesus have pity on the prostitute? She is still your mother.

Just as dressing inappropriately can cross over into indecent exposure, criticism and other verbal attacks can cross over into abuse.

I would hope that no one is suggesting that the daughter verbally abuse her mother in return or that she has license to deal with her in anything but a respectful manner. No one is even suggesting that the mother should not have any family members spend some portion of their holidays with her. They are saying that the 4th commandment doesn’t give your parents the right to terrorize every holiday gathering the family has.

From what she says, the abuse has not gotten to the point that she is forced to cut off all contact with her mother. It has gotten to the point of being intolerable to allow it in front of the children and guests at holidays. Even though the daughter has pleaded with her mother to stop her attacks, the mother adamantly refuses, and even claims that something about her particular place in the cosmos gives her the right to abuse others in this way.

If your mother didn’t dress the way you liked or you thought she flirted too much, there would not be much you could do other than respectfully ask her to quit. If she was a prostitute and she refused to “go and sin no more,” you’d at least drag her off of the street corner, wouldn’t you? Tacit approval of serious sin is no sign of respect. By the sounds of it, this poor woman’s mother has crossed that line.

 

[LSK]

mercygate:

Same issue with SIL. FIL told us we HAD to invite her or he wouldn’t come. I responded, “We’ll miss you.” So I have a reputation as the family B****. I can live with that.

I decided it was unfair to hold 15 or 20 people hostage to ONE person’s inability to behave properly in a social setting – family or not. If the person is mentally ill (SIL is, and is also alcoholic and prescription drug-addicted), she may not be culpable but she is also unfit for human company.

You deprive your mother of nothing by denying her the opportunity of trashing your family gatherings. The holidays are coming up. Invite her for a one-on-one Thanksgiving dinner on Saturday. Christmas? Same thing. Have her over for tree-trimming or for a post-Christmas private get together. She may scream at you that you are being cruel by excluding her from the big party but you are not. Big social events require adult social skills.

In my experience (and I had years of it), setting the “rules” ahead of time was pointless. SIL couldn’t control herself, and it was cruel to make her attempt it.

Do not hold the rest of your family, your friends, and yourself hostage to your mother’s illness.

YOU ARE AWESOME

 

[LSK]

rayne89:

Stop feeling guilty. Your mother is the one with the bad behavior and you have tolerated it far longer than I think you should have. If she says “I am who I am” she is perfectly aware of rude behavior. She doesn’t seem to care about anyone elses feelings so why are worried so much about hers.

I have a father in law that is like this. And no one on my husbands side stands up to him. I’ve gotten to the point where too I’m old for these childish games. Either behave like a decent human being or stay home. I will not tolerate his rudeness anymore.

You aren’t abandoning your mother, you can still call on her, invite her to lunch, have her over when your not having a party. Mercygate gave some great advice, please consider it.

My Aunt Jeanne was like this - we all lovingly refered to her as “Aunt B**ch”…even my cousins, her children, could not stand having her at family gatherings. As difficult as it was for them they stopped including her. When she got upset about that my cousin (he was very brave) told his mom, “Do you remember when I told you about all the fights you were causing? You said you are the way you are and you are too old to change. I absolutely believe you, Mom. That’s why you are not invited.”

This was so tough for him to do - that side of the family is Italian and Italian sons do NOT speak to their mothers like that - but we all backed him up. He would go and visit her on the day of the get together for 30 minutes - bring her a piece of cake and tell her about the party. We all continued - on individual basis - to include her in our lives (cards, phone calls etc) but we all backed him up by not engaging in any more catty fights or gossip or meaness with her. She was a very unhappy woman and died unhappy, but the family can all say with all honesty that we did not add to her unhappiness - it was her choice.

 

[ridesawhitehors]

mercygate:

Same issue with SIL. FIL told us we HAD to invite her or he wouldn’t come. I responded, “We’ll miss you.” So I have a reputation as the family B****.

Hey, Thats my role in the family too!

Do not hold the rest of your family, your friends, and yourself hostage to your mother’s illness.

I agree with everything Mercygate sez… You bring no honor to your parents by creating a forum for her to sin against others. Good Luck.

 

[Amie]

Been there… my mom is okay, but she has her “moments”… Just today, she was crying on the phone to me for hurting her feelings (you’d have to know her… it’s a manipulative trick), because I put my foot down about overfeeding my children junk food when we come by, and her not listening and supporting me with the food and the discipline I give when she’s with us, such as “Oh, you’re mommy said you can’t have that, but if it were up to me, you could!” Thanks for the support mom… In any case, you should just not invite her. Your family’s happiness IS more important. Hubby and I have actually considered moving away just to have more room to be “ourselves” without the stress she brings to my family life… You do what you have to do. Honoring your parents doesn’t mean letting them walk all over you…

God bless, and GOOD LUCK!
-Amy

 

[mercygate]

LSK:

YOU ARE AWESOME

Thanks, LSK – and just think, it only took me 3 decades to figure it out!

 

[LSK]

mercygate:

Thanks, LSK – and just think, it only took me 3 decades to figure it out!

HEY - you are talking to someone who just gave up giving singing lessons to pigs!

Seriously, though, while I think it is always important to examine our own behavior I also know that sometimes ‘it is what it is’ and acceptance is the answer. The challenge then becomes being able to disengage with LOVE instead of despair or anger.

 

[Didi]

“Auntie, why in the world would you want to say something like that about anybody, even if it were true?”

My father taught me very early on to say something like this when someone made rude comments or asked an offensive question. “Why would you ask me something like that?” Usually stops them cold!

The other thing he taught me was to treat the situation with humor. We have an adopted son who has much darker skin than I do. When he was a baby, we were in the grocery store and an older lady kept scowling at me. Finally she came up to me and said “I guess his father must have dark skin.” I looked at her and said “You know, I guess he must. I’m not really sure who the father is!” (Which is true) Left her standing in the aisle with her mouth wide open!

 

[LSK]

Didi:

My father taught me very early on to say something like this when someone made rude comments or asked an offensive question. “Why would you ask me something like that?” Usually stops them cold!

The other thing he taught me was to treat the situation with humor. We have an adopted son who has much darker skin than I do. When he was a baby, we were in the grocery store and an older lady kept scowling at me. Finally she came up to me and said “I guess his father must have dark skin.” I looked at her and said “You know, I guess he must. I’m not really sure who the father is!” (Which is true) Left her standing in the aisle with her mouth wide open!

Oh how I wish I could be present for these moments…

 

[Didi]

You might also try to **make a game of it ** at your next celebration, like Thanksgiving. Kids especially love things like this.

Notify everyone ahead of time to bring their spare change for a game that will then be donated to local charity, hurricane relief or whatever.

Have two bowls to hold the change. One bowl should be dark, the other light. All change starts in the dark bowl.

During the day, anytime anyone says something nice about someone else, they get to take a coin from the dark bowl and put it in the light bowl. This is the one that will be donated to charity at the end of the day.

Whenever someone says something bad about someone or criticizes someone, they have to take TWO coins out of the light bowl and put it into the dark bowl.

This teaches kids especially that it’s easier to tear someone down than it is to build them up, so we should work harder at building them up and blessing them than tearing them down and cursing them.

Might be an interesting experiment for your Mom as sometimes we don’t realize how much we criticize others until it’s something visual.

 

[Loboto-Me]

MikeinSD:

I have similar problems with my dad who I will (unhappily) be seeing over the holidays. He’s lonely, doesn’ understand why family sleeps past 5am, and uses the religion club whenever possible. I stay with friends or in a hotel and keep the phone unplugged when I visit. The “possum” response usually works in family situations. Boring responses doesn’t get him excited after awhile. When he gets racial or severly Catholic, I just leave. Not pleasant but what can I do?

Severly Catholic?? EEEK! I think that many of us here are “severely Catholic” at least I consider myself that LOL.

 

[MikeinSD]

Loboto-Me:

Severly Catholic?? EEEK! I think that many of us here are “severely Catholic” at least I consider myself that LOL.

Well, there are Catholics, there are conservative Catholics, there is the Pope, and then there is my father. I’m sure we all know people who more Catholic than the Pope. Or at least think they are. Just have to grin and bear it.

 

[contemplative]

Have you heard these old sayings?

Your friends you can choose. Your relatives you are stuck with.

and

Blood is thicker than water.

I don’t believe either of them.

Do what your heart tells you to do.

 

[MGEISING]

contemplative:

Do what your heart tells you to do.

I just want peace.

 

[montanaman]

Wow. My mom is similar. I hesitate to say “the same,” because she’s not over-the-top insane, but she definitely could use some advanced social grace classes.

All my life it was the same thing–we were the only Catholics at the fundamentalist family gathering. (Dad converted for my mom, eventually made the Faith his own). Family treated her like dirt, and mom, while technically right to be offended by passive-aggressive or even overt hostility, did nothing to help the situation by going to war. Eventually, this defensiveness (and often offensiveness) became an encrusted, impenatrable armor of self-righteous indignation.

Through those years I went from being on mom’s side, to bearing the brunt of her overbearing nature, to eventually (as in recently) learning to navigate the attitude. She’s still a self-righteous, angry person, but inside is someone just starving to be loved. We’ve always had a fairly tight relationship even when we wanted to kill each other, (she had me as a single mother when she was 20), but there were times when I swore I’d never talk to her or come home. Now, I’ve let my defenses down a bit and she’s relaxed. My hope is that by the time she dies, she’ll finally find peace. I know she’s capable of it–she’s the one who taught me the Faith, after all.

After that little battlefield is won or lost, we’ll see about the next potential one. My girlfriend, who is likely converting to Catholicism, and with whom I am running out of reasons not to marry, has a condescendingly self-righteous holier-than-thou family who thinks I’m a nice enough guy–just a tool of the anti-Christ.

 

[La_Chiara]

MGEISING:

I just want peace.

Unfortunately, we don’t always get what we want. :nope: So we have to do the best we can, recognizing that even our best efforts may be stymied. And trust in God.:yup:

 

[Didi]

Sometimes we can have peace in the midst of the storm if we are trusting in God, doing our best and leaving it in His hands.

There’s a great song, sorry I don’t know the artist, who sings:

“Sometimes He calms the storm, and sometimes He calms His child.”

 

[contemplative]

MGEISING:

I just want peace.

I understand.
Perhaps I am not the best person to give advice. From nearly the start of my marriage 23 years ago, my husband and I have been solo with our own little family just about every holiday and special time. Neither one of us wants the hassle of invitations being evenly distributed to extended family. We don’t want the headaches. Maintaining a good relationship with spouse, raising children, keeping a home clean and fit and working X amount of hours each week is tough enough for us. To fight for a spot on my own couch with Aunt Nellie and cousin bobbie or even my own mother after every Thanksgiving dinner that I cook is way too much. Everybody can stay at their own house on the holidays. If a relative wants to visit me any other day …the front door is always there. I tried the visit family evenly on the holiday routine too and that is even more of a headache. The first half of the day with his family…second 1/2 of the day at my family. All the grandparents, aunts and uncles are smug and happy and I am simply pooped out! And don’t forget the alternating homes for the holiday routine…forget that…I don’t like counting and some people do…Forget it!! I can’t please everyone. I just want peace in my home with my spouse and children. That is more than enough peace and happiness for me.

This doesn’t quite answer your question but you have a good picture from me what I think of pleasing ALL the relatives on the holidays.