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newf
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LSK, thank you for your kind words. You are right, it is still difficult.
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Rebecca_New
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You HAVE to honor your parents-that’s your first concern-remember God is watching and knows. The first thing the psychologist asks you on the couch is “How is your relationship with your mother?” Why, because its the first one you know-and no matter what it is the one constant thread throughout your life. Your mother gave you so much, maybe you should start thanking her, spoiling her, send her flowers and most of all pray for your enlightenment. One day your mother will not be around for your parties, one day you may have to face God with your choices. I just feel like you may be taking some of your anxiety about these events on Mom. It is not natural for a child to be so hostile.
Pray to Mary, Our Blessed Mother, Family Peace is the number one request for Eucharist Adorers, so you are not alone. I have been requesting this for three years now and the transformation in my relationships with family has been wonderful.
Peace be with you and your family.
Pray to Mary, Our Blessed Mother, Family Peace is the number one request for Eucharist Adorers, so you are not alone. I have been requesting this for three years now and the transformation in my relationships with family has been wonderful.
Peace be with you and your family.
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Marie
Guest
Rebecca New:
Honoring her Mother does not mean putting up with her mother’s uncharitable and mean behavior. There is No honor in allowing her mother to slide down the slippery slope towards gehena, and remain silent.
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lifeisbeautiful
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That is very sad
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lifeisbeautiful
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2215 Respect for parents (filial piety) derives from gratitude toward those who, by the gift of life, their love and their work, have brought their children into the world and enabled them to grow in stature, wisdom, and grace. “With all your heart honor your father, and do not forget the birth pangs of your mother. **Remember that through your parents you were born; what can you give back to them that equals their gift to you?” ** 19
Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. This respect has its roots in the fear of God, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
2218 The fourth commandment reminds grown children of their responsibilities toward their parents. As much as they can, they **must give them material and moral support in old age ** and in times of illness, loneliness, or distress. Jesus recalls this duty of gratitude. 23
For the Lord honored the father above the children, and he confirmed the right of the mother over her sons. Whoever honors his father atones for sins, and whoever glorifies his mother is like one who lays up treasure. Whoever honors his father will be gladdened by his own children, and when he prays he will be heard. Whoever glorifies his father will have long life, and whoever obeys the Lord will refresh his mother. 24
O son, help your father in his old age, and do not grieve him as long as he lives; even if he is lacking in understanding, show forbearance; in all your strength do not despise him… Whoever forsakes his father is like a blasphemer, and whoever angers his mother is cursed by the Lord. 25
Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. This respect has its roots in the fear of God, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
2218 The fourth commandment reminds grown children of their responsibilities toward their parents. As much as they can, they **must give them material and moral support in old age ** and in times of illness, loneliness, or distress. Jesus recalls this duty of gratitude. 23
For the Lord honored the father above the children, and he confirmed the right of the mother over her sons. Whoever honors his father atones for sins, and whoever glorifies his mother is like one who lays up treasure. Whoever honors his father will be gladdened by his own children, and when he prays he will be heard. Whoever glorifies his father will have long life, and whoever obeys the Lord will refresh his mother. 24
O son, help your father in his old age, and do not grieve him as long as he lives; even if he is lacking in understanding, show forbearance; in all your strength do not despise him… Whoever forsakes his father is like a blasphemer, and whoever angers his mother is cursed by the Lord. 25
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lifeisbeautiful
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How sad would it be if parents gave up on children because they were too difficult to deal with or were annoying at parties!
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Marie
Guest
Mind explaining why you think the OP does not love her mother? I think you are confusing love and honor here.
One can sincerely love a parent and Honor them also, while not allowing them to continue to sin gravely. We are talking about a woman who has fallen into the grave sin of anger and bad temperment. It is a sin to allow someone you love, to continue on the path of destruction. That is the point. The OP did not say she hates her mother, that I am aware of.
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lifeisbeautiful
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Mind telling me where I said that I think the OP does not love her mother? I actually think the opposite.
I posted the info from the catechism as facts for reference. If the OP did not love her mom I doubt she would have been this worried about the whole situation.
And I agree, one should not let someone you love, and much less your own mother, continue in the path of destruction. In fact I was getting ready to post something similar to that, thanks for stating it so eloquently and saving me the trouble. And that is the exact reason why I believe that the solution is not to kick her out of their lives, and let her be.
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vluvski
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This is a matter of preventing her from embarassing herself and hurting those she loves. We are obligated to honor our parents, not take abuse from them.
If my future children are unable to behave at parties, they will not be allowed to go. The same will apply to my parents or my in-laws if they become abusive. My grandmother is only allowed to sit next to certain people at our aplatke Christmas meal, because she cannot say nice things about some of us. This is for her sake as much as for the rest of us.
It IS terribly sad that her mother does not make an effort to be kinder, and the family feels trapped into doing something they don’t want to do.
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Marie
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It was your highliting…anger etc.
The OP has an obligation to love her mother and forgive her. She also has an obligation to correct her. That is a serious problem, but one which carries eternal consequences for her as well as her mother.
The love of one’s neighbor (family) is essentially bound up with the love of God. St. John put the matter simply when he said: “If any man say that he loves God and hateth his neighbor, that man is a liar and the truth is not in him.”
This stands to reason when one considers that God, whom we are bound to love first and foremost and with all our hearts and souls, loves every human being whom He created and desires his salvation. Hence it would be a contradiction to profess love of God and at the same time to exclude a neighbor (family member) from our love.
The object of all love is the good of the one loved. The object of love of God is the honor and glory of God; the object of love of neighbor is the welfare of our fellowmen, both spiritual and temporal, and through that the honor and glory of God.
Therefore the love of neighbor imposes many positive duties upon us, such as alms-giving, correction, forgiveness, etc., each one of which is directed towards the well-being and happiness of our neighbor (family); at the same time it forbids certain sins which would bring unhappiness, spiritual or temporal, to a neighbor.
Every human being has it in his power not only to help his neighbor, but also to hurt him. This latter may take the form of temporal harm, as it does in the sins of hatred, slander, detraction, and similar sins, or it may do eternal harm as in the case of scandal and cooperation in another’s sins.
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lifeisbeautiful
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Oh I agree, but my point was to not give up on her. I believe one shouldn’t say “that’s how she is, oh well” and giving up on trying to help her.
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lifeisbeautiful
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Read the rest of my post, I was editing while you were writing and we both posted at the same time. Like I said, I agree we have the duty to try to help correct.
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Marie
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I agree on that too. Deserting her or banishing her from their life, is not correction, love or honor. God did not say it would be easy…But then again, if the abusive behavior affects and scandalizes the children, that might well mean some serious consideration of limiting their exposure to the grandmother’s abusive ways.
Adult’s should be able to handle it, but childrens welfare is first and formost in the process.
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Marie
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The miracle of Edit!
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La_Chiara
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No one is accusing anyone of hating their mothers. I for one appreciate that LifeisBeautiful is bringing our Catholic Catechism and the Bible into this thread. She is refocusing this discussion in the context of our Catholic faith–which seems to be conspicuously missing from many posts.
Marie, you are quick to conclude that the offending mothers are guilty of sins–sins that justify cutting these mothers out of their family’s lives and holiday gatherings. In contrast, I hear that the mothers are difficult, disruptive, thoughtless, and so on.
This thread seems to have veered to such an extreme sentiment (promoting estrangement from one’s mother) that any attempts to temper that sentiment is immediately pounced on.
(NOTE: I too was composing as you two were posting and editing. Though my overall sentiment still stands.)
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La_Chiara
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Could you define “abusive behavior” that requires cutting off grandmothers from their families and grandchildren. At what point is someone’s behavior “abusive”? At what point does it scandalize the children? Are we not called as Catholics and Christians to tolerate people who we find difficult? What happened to prayer, filial honor/respect/love, offering up our sufferings, etc?
I think this whole “abusive behavior” view is a secular psychological approach. I have never seen the Catechism defining “abusive behavior” at holiday gatherings or estrangement of adult children from their parents. This is a Catholic forum and we should be approaching these issues in a Catholic context–not strictly a secular context.
BTW, I am not saying that we should tolerate anyone’s bad behavior. But cutting a family member out of one’s life entirely is an extreme action. It seems to me that estrangement should be reserved for truly extreme cases, as a last resort after much prayer and attempts to improve the situation, and always with the hope to re-establish relationships as quickly as possible. Cutting a family member out of one’s life and continuing the estrangement because it gives one’s immediate family “peace” can be a selfish and perhaps sinful choice.
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Marie
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La Chiara:
To continue contact would be a sin…and un-thinkable.
As to topic, it flow’s logically as far as I am concerned. The Op has a difficult mother. Should she cut her out of her life… NO, of couse not. I never said she should. I said limit her opportunities at gathering.
Then I listed reason’s more serious which MIGHT cause one to cut off a family member…Abuse in IMO, which is relavant to if and when one should do so.
Having dealt with a very difficult Mom of my own, I know the difference dear. Mom was Mom, and remained in our family circle and well loved and honored until she died. I did not allow her to rule the roost with her tirades. She grew and so did we all.
You forgot the beginning of my post…
LaChiara, while we can suppose abusive behavior does not happen often…it does happen. I have a friend who’s father-in-law, molested her young daughter. And another friend who’s son-in-law, not the childs father, also molested that womans 3 year old grandchild. While that is not the subject or the case with this posters mother, I mentioned abuse as it does happen and it is a cause to remove said relative from the family circle. Neither of my friends hates the abuser…but there is no way on God’s green earth or in heaven that God expects them to continue contact.
To continue contact would be a sin…and un-thinkable.
As to topic, it flow’s logically as far as I am concerned. The Op has a difficult mother. Should she cut her out of her life… NO, of couse not. I never said she should. I said limit her opportunities at gathering.
Then I listed reason’s more serious which MIGHT cause one to cut off a family member…Abuse in IMO, which is relavant to if and when one should do so.
Having dealt with a very difficult Mom of my own, I know the difference dear. Mom was Mom, and remained in our family circle and well loved and honored until she died. I did not allow her to rule the roost with her tirades. She grew and so did we all.
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La_Chiara
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Marie–Certainly, molestation is clear-cut abuse. But I think most of the cases cited in this thread (and similar threads in the Family Life forum) are about a much more loosely defined “abuse”. Indeed, I am uncomfortable with using “abuse” to mean behavior that one does not like. In response to a post about difficult mothers, in-laws, or other family members, members tend to support those who are posting. While this may seem charitable, we need to remember that we only are hearing one side of the story and that encouraging Catholics to become estranged from their extended family members may be encouraging them to sin. I would like to see more balance on these threads and more awareness that these are Catholic forums.
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Marie
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La Chiara:
One doe’s have to know the difference between accepting flaws and over looking slights, as opposed to correcting when it is nessecary. Correction, does not mean being mean. It means calling one another to awareness of good and bad behavior with charity and love. Knowing what is acceptable and what is not.
The OP has a difficult Mom…many of us have difficult relatives. Some of us have really bad apples in the tree. But regardless of how bad or irritating they may be…we are called to love them. Love doe’s not mean pretending all is right with them or their actions.
As though Catholic families are perfect? But that, as we all know is not true of any family or denom. I would like to see the world perfect. I would like all to be like Christ, including myself. But real problems and real moral judgements are needed.
One doe’s have to know the difference between accepting flaws and over looking slights, as opposed to correcting when it is nessecary. Correction, does not mean being mean. It means calling one another to awareness of good and bad behavior with charity and love. Knowing what is acceptable and what is not.
The OP has a difficult Mom…many of us have difficult relatives. Some of us have really bad apples in the tree. But regardless of how bad or irritating they may be…we are called to love them. Love doe’s not mean pretending all is right with them or their actions.
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Marie
Guest
Exactly.
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