My neice is playing online games with occult themes?

[ElectricBlue]

Well if we’re going to talk multiple targets, I got something better myself. >:3 manly summon gesture

???: RAAAAAAAAAAAWR!!!

Say hello to Bahamut everybody! >8D

Bahamut: MEGAFLARE

I don’t find that amusing at all. Naive maybe but not funny.

The 4 elements are featured in the Oriental-esque lore of Avatar. Does that make Avatar masonic? Hardly.

I didn’t say the game was masonic. I was trying to say that elements of masonry are incorporated into the game that is all. But on top of that look airplanes are featured in the game too but that does not make it the game a flight simulator or something. It is more than coincidence having occult concepts, quotations by occult people and the symbols all combined together in the game don’t you think?

 

[Baelor]

It is more than coincidence having occult concepts, quotations by occult people and the symbols all combined together in the game don’t you think?

Yes, it probably is. They probably meant to put it in the game as part of the atmosphere/story.

 

[kinja]

I don’t find that amusing at all. Naive maybe but not funny.

I didn’t say the game was masonic. I was trying to say that elements of masonry are incorporated into the game that is all. But on top of that look airplanes are featured in the game too but that does not make it the game a flight simulator or something. It is more than coincidence having occult concepts, quotations by occult people and the symbols all combined together in the game don’t you think?

I agree totally. I think that some people underestimate the power of advertising too as it relates to the occult symbols and concepts in entertainment today. A catholic friend of mine recently put up on her facebook wall and BBM “as above so below”. She didn’t even know where it came from but she thought it sounded “deep”.

This may be the subject for another thread but the old school teacher saying goes: repetition facilitates learning. It applies to most things in life. Or as Adolph Hitler is quoted as saying, “Tell a lie often enough, loud enough, and long enough, and people will believe you.”

This is one reason why mantras (words or prayers repeated) seem to be effective in helping change a person’s state of mind. I’m not knocking all mantras btw.

But I digress. My friend reminded me of all the people who I’ve been seeing sporting clothes for some time now with quotes like “as above so below” and “love under law” (Aleister Crowley) accompanied by the usual skulls/two headed eagle/phoenix/freemasonry square and compass and other symbols co-opted or designed by occultists.Most of them probably don’t know what the genesis of the idea in its totality printed on the clothing comes from and neither do they care mostly I think. If it’s fashionable then lets do it seems to be the reasoning here too.

C.S. Lewis describes the phenomenon quite skillfully in chapter 25 of the Screwtape letters.

 

[kinja]

Yes, it probably is. They probably meant to put it in the game as part of the atmosphere/story.

Possibly or a game designer/creator may be trying to proselytize or even boast about their own beliefs. Who knows really what the intent actually is? We will never know maybe.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Possibly or a game designer/creator may be trying to proselytize or even boast about their own beliefs. Who knows really what the intent actually is? We will never know maybe.

Only one word can describe this brand of speculation: Fruitless

But I digress. My friend reminded me of all the people who I’ve been seeing sporting clothes for some time now with quotes like “as above so below” and “love under law” (Aleister Crowley) accompanied by the usual skulls/two headed eagle/phoenix/freemasonry square and compass and other symbols co-opted or designed by occultists.Most of them probably don’t know what the genesis of the idea in its totality printed on the clothing comes from and neither do they care mostly I think. If it’s fashionable then lets do it seems to be the reasoning here too.

Translated: “The symbols so blatant and used, everyone’s been desensitized! Only I, special old ME, am not blind to the TRUTH!! MASONIC INFLUENCES ARE EVERYWHERE!!21!!”

Yeah, never mind that ripping a concept out and giving it your own twists already creates something entirely different. Following kinja’s logic, a piece of cloth is not supposed to get even a hint of orange when splashed with orange juice. Putting in the ingredients of a cake means the flour will stay like powder, water will stay water, and no batter mixture will result.

Heck, why don’t we all ignore the fact that Christianity has dipped its hand into preserving these ‘occult’ and ‘pagan’ influences when Celtic monks decided to preserve the myths folklore of the people?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t find that amusing at all. Naive maybe but not funny.

Riiiight, as with Barbkw over there, I’ll give you an ear if you can actually get me a self-proclaimed witch/wizard capable of that kind of power.

If not, you’re just obviously sour that my Bahamut just hit you for over 9000!! XD

I was trying to say that elements of masonry are incorporated into the game that is all.

No, you lumped a concept like the 4 elements specifically with masonic ties. If anyone’s naive (not to mention simple-minded), it’s you.

When gamers and fantasy buffs alike hear/read the words 4 elements, it’s an almost automatic guarantee that all they’re going to think about are: Fire, Water, Earth, and Air.

Believe it or not, that’s as basic as a simple fruit salad arrangement in the culinary arts. Lots of people use the four elements as the them. One form of it I’m particularly fond of is found in the Golden Sun GBA series and the FFIV song Four Elemental Lords (note: Link is a particularly funny remix XD).

 

[Lokabrenna]

If not, you’re just obviously sour that my Bahamut just hit you for over 9000!! XD

I see your Bahamut and raise you a Knights of the Round (do you have ANY IDEA what I had to go through to get it?! DO YOU?!).

I was trying to say that elements of masonry are incorporated into the game that is all.

Yeah, but again, who the heck is even going to clue in that the symbols mean what you say they mean? Unless, of course, they have encyclopedic knowledge of occult symbols, which would mean they’ve already been exposed to them somewhere OMG they’ve already been corrupted! Sometimes a star is just a star with a few extra squiggles.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I see your Bahamut and raise you a Knights of the Round (do you have ANY IDEA what I had to go through to get it?! DO YOU?!).

Nope but seeing as how I’m trying to go for 100% completion on FFX-2 and getting all those -]cute, little/-] dresspheres, I think I’ll be going that way.

With that said… can ya give me a Phoenix Down please? I’ll put a leash on my dragon next time, I promise. TwT is lying pwned

 

[kinja]

Only one word can describe this brand of speculation: Fruitless

My point exactly. Why posit one possibility only if there may be a myriad of them that are also possible? That is subjective reasoning.

Translated: “The symbols so blatant and used, everyone’s been desensitized! Only I, special old ME, am not blind to the TRUTH!! MASONIC INFLUENCES ARE EVERYWHERE!!21!!”

You aren’t very good at translating I see but seem to be adept at reading your own preconceptions into what was written.

Yeah, never mind that ripping a concept out and giving it your own twists already creates something entirely different. Following kinja’s logic, a piece of cloth is not supposed to get even a hint of orange when splashed with orange juice. Putting in the ingredients of a cake means the flour will stay like powder, water will stay water, and no batter mixture will result.

That is a weak dare I say intellectually dishonest strawman of an analogy I think. Presenting in media a set of concepts together in an identical manner to how it is presented in a real religious tradition cannot be compared the way you suggest.

For example the five pointed star used in Christianity represents something totally different to the 4/5 elements that the occultist would use it to represent - fine. But if the star is drawn in a circle and each point is labeled with the respective nature elements in occult fashion it cannot be rational to suggest that the star in this CONTEXT has no meaning or a Christian meaning now.

It has been given a meaning by the context in which it is used so stop comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

My point exactly. Why posit one possibility only if there may be a myriad of them that are also possible? That is subjective reasoning.

No, my point is even you proposing the notions of ‘occult’ symbolism is fruitless. People pick and choose with a lot less of the thoughts sign-chasers would give them unwanted credit for.

You aren’t very good at translating I see but seem to be adept at reading your own preconceptions into what was written.

Presenting in media a set of concepts together in an identical manner to how it is presented in a real religious tradition cannot be compared the way you suggest.

The Crystal Dragon Jesus trope says hi.

It’s a tragedy when someone like you still cannot see that the very act of media presenting these concepts is already a set up for it to add its own twists. Unless what you’re creating is nothing short of a documentary (which are arguably even more shady than just mere video games), you are in no position to make the claims that you do. To something like the video game industry, symbols, myths, folklore, and all in-between carry no more significance than the palette carries to its painter.

For example the five pointed star used in Christianity represents something totally different to the 4/5 elements that the occultist would use it to represent - fine. But if the star is drawn in a circle and each point is labeled with the respective nature elements in occult fashion it cannot be rational to suggest that the star in this CONTEXT has no meaning or a Christian meaning now.

You obviously have the RPG experience of a nine-year-old noob if you can’t recall a number of fantasy games who have done just that.

Unfortunately for you, the elements don’t stand for anything more than a particular style of magic that is described and utilized more like a martial art or a science than the pagan religions you associate it with.

It has been given a meaning by the context in which it is used so stop comparing apples and oranges.

You’re one to talk! Do care to remember I have no intellectual respect for the likes of you who can’t even tell what an orange is in any discussion.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Riiiight, as with Barbkw over there, I’ll give you an ear if you can actually get me a self-proclaimed witch/wizard capable of that kind of power.

If not, you’re just obviously sour that my Bahamut just hit you for over 9000!! XD

Well they believe that it is possible maybe from all that has been written about performing magic spells and stuff. I read the back on a book on mystical magic or something once that gave a course in teaching you how to throw magic lightning around using your mind and stuff.

If someone asks me if I believe Jesus walked on water I would say yes. And if they ask me if I could do the same I would say yes if I had enough faith because Jesus said that I could if I have faith like a mustard seed.

So I don’t make fun of peoples religious beliefs. It is real to them and forbidden for me to practice and that is that is important to me about that lost wanderer.

No, you lumped a concept like the 4 elements specifically with masonic ties. If anyone’s naive (not to mention simple-minded), it’s you.

Well from I have read about alot of famous freemasons and a lot of them were into magic or some occult thing or other. Albert Pike and alester crowley among others so i think that it is relevent. masons and the occult are compatible. esoteric is the word I mean.

When gamers and fantasy buffs alike hear/read the words 4 elements, it’s an almost automatic guarantee that all they’re going to think about are: Fire, Water, Earth, and Air.

Believe it or not, that’s as basic as a simple fruit salad arrangement in the culinary arts. Lots of people use the four elements as the them. One form of it I’m particularly fond of is found in the Golden Sun GBA series and the FFIV song Four Elemental Lords (note: Link is a particularly funny remix XD).

yes I know I have friends who like the stuff more than me. that does not change where the concepts came from though. They came from occult ceremonies and spell casting and stuff.

 

[ElectricBlue]

No, my point is even you proposing the notions of ‘occult’ symbolism is fruitless. People pick and choose with a lot less of the thoughts sign-chasers would give them unwanted credit for.

You aren’t very good at translating I see but seem to be adept at reading your own preconceptions into what was written.

The Crystal Dragon Jesus trope says hi.

It’s a tragedy when someone like you still cannot see that the very act of media presenting these concepts is already a set up for it to add its own twists. Unless what you’re creating is nothing short of a documentary (which are arguably even more shady than just mere video games), you are in no position to make the claims that you do. To something like the video game industry, symbols, myths, folklore, and all in-between carry no more significance than the palette carries to its painter.

You obviously have the RPG experience of a nine-year-old noob if you can’t recall a number of fantasy games who have done just that.

Unfortunately for you, the elements don’t stand for anything more than a particular style of magic that is described and utilized more like a martial art or a science than the pagan religions you associate it with.

You’re one to talk! Do care to remember I have no intellectual respect for the likes of you who can’t even tell what an orange is in any discussion.

I am sorry but I find you are very disrespectful in general and you should apologize to this room for your insults. Are you a catholic person?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well they believe that it is possible maybe from all that has been written about performing magic spells and stuff. I read the back on a book on mystical magic or something once that gave a course in teaching you how to throw magic lightning around using your mind and stuff.

Belief doesn’t change the laws of science. You’re not Jesus. Even if you did have faith, you’d still fall even if you tried to walk on water. What is God to you, some kind of genie?

The same goes (heck even more) for those pagans who think they can hurl a bolt of lightning. So you read a book that actually said it could teach you how to shoot lightning from your hand? Ha! So what’s the title? I can always use something to make fun of these days. I wonder why the Pentagon hasn’t found out and made use of this.

yes I know I have friends who like the stuff more than me. that does not change where the concepts came from though. They came from occult ceremonies and spell casting and stuff.

Uh no, the concept of hurling a ball of fire after charging up some energy came from a long tradition of mythology translating into the fantasy genre that is today.

Clearly my first impression of you has been nerfed. You know absolutely nothing about the genre. Your words are words of someone looking at it from the outside-in, just like the fundamentalists who are content with criticizing what they see on the mere externals of our Faith.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am sorry but I find you are very disrespectful in general and you should apologize to this room for your insults. Are you a catholic person?

You obviously don’t know just who it is you’re defending. I’m not apologizing to someone who not only wished me excommunication in the past but continues on the with his intellectual dishonesty and misrepresentation of all enthusiasts of the fantasy genre.

 

[kinja]

I am sorry but I find you are very disrespectful in general and you should apologize to this room for your insults. Are you a catholic person?

EB you are wasting your time. I feel what you are saying but please stay on topic and ignore the NOISE ok

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

EB you are wasting your time. I feel what you are saying but please stay on topic and ignore the NOISE ok

Whose projecting again? Rather telling that when you run into the same argument you had no answer to (as usual), you just simply brush it off as ‘noise’.

Ah well, somebody has to got to clean all the MUD that gets dragged in here.

 

[Lokabrenna]

Nope but seeing as how I’m trying to go for 100% completion on FFX-2 and getting all those -]cute, little/-] dresspheres, I think I’ll be going that way.

I’m stuck trying to get the Lady Luck Dressphere. Math-based minigames = fail, and I was also locked out of the best ending because I’m trying not to play with a guide. (It’s my self-imposed challenge: Play every game I buy for as long as I can without looking anything up.)

With that said… can ya give me a Phoenix Down please? I’ll put a leash on my dragon next time, I promise. TwT is lying pwned

tosses you one I always hoard healing items. I read a recent article on Cracked.com that says that this tendency to hoard can actually help with retirement savings. (Imagine every paycheck is a Megalixer/Full Restore, whatever, and retirement is a really tough boss.)

 

[kinja]

You obviously don’t know just who it is you’re defending. I’m not apologizing to someone who not only wished me excommunication in the past but continues on the with his intellectual dishonesty and misrepresentation of all enthusiasts of the fantasy genre.

Hmm is someone carrying a heavy load or the proverbial shoulder chip perhaps
Regardless of what disagreements we may have had in previous posts LW you do NOT know me … sorry to disappoint you. Bringing that up here is totally out of place and you have just exposed your personal bias and hence subjective standpoint with regards to the topic at hand as well an my contribution.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hmm is someone carrying a heavy load or the proverbial shoulder chip perhaps
Regardless of what disagreements we may have had in previous posts LW you do NOT know me … sorry to disappoint you. Bringing that up here is totally out of place and you have just exposed your personal bias and hence subjective standpoint with regards to the topic at hand as well an my contribution.

I don’t need to know a lot about you to speak well enough on your views on this subject. It’s the same, anti-fantasy, over-religious rehash with sideways character stabs thrown in.

You take jabs at escapism and accuse people like me of unhealthiness.
You quote things that have different viewpoints without clarification, leaving me nothing but my previous encounters with you for reference.
You barely address a single one of my actual points directly.
You label any response I make that you can’t handle as ‘noise’.

Don’t accuse me of holding grudges when you’ve got a plank the size of the Chrysler building stuck in your eye. Unlike yours, my ‘grudges’ are reasonable and relevant because of your downright, intellectual dishonesty when it comes to actually addressing my argument.

Then again, nothing about a polite and apologetic concession is going to kill you y’know.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Belief doesn’t change the laws of science. You’re not Jesus. Even if you did have faith, you’d still fall even if you tried to walk on water. What is God to you, some kind of genie?

Jesus said that we will do the miracles he did and greater things than him. Also did you know that Jesus gave up all his heavenly powers while on earth and so when he walked on water it was as a man not as God? I know I am not Jesus but I know that what he did through the holy spirit we can all do cause that is what he said himself. He is not my genie but i can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

Clearly my first impression of you has been nerfed. You know absolutely nothing about the genre. Your words are words of someone looking at it from the outside-in, just like the fundamentalists who are content with criticizing what they see on the mere externals of our Faith.

well you have some nerve. and why can’t you post your views like normal people without being so offensive and disgusting about it?